The OP's are needed for the best comms to get the best gear but I can not begin to describe how sick I am of the fight puzzle style. I don't want to switch to this guy to stun then quickly switch to a group member to cleanse then on to another enemy to interrupt. It's to bloody many steps I just want to kill things and feel like a bad*** sith! I could rant and rave about the ways OP's are setup but I'll just ask one thing.

 

Can we get 1 OP that is not a complex fight puzzle and is just a massive battlefield with 100's of things to kill huh? Just a sea of enemies and you got to kill em all. Something that I don't know actually feels like a war zone not an infiltration mission! I'd love to be in a 16 man OP and have it feel like a real battle not just a series of annoying steps like avoid the things on the ground and do this at this time.

 

I got a light-saber but can't lop off any body parts of my enemies or put a big gaping hole in them instead I only whack em with my glowing stick. I have to go through all this nonsense when in any other style of game I'd just have to kill him, it drives me crazy. Simple things like disable a shield gen or two to make him vulnerable or something like that is okay, but all the steps and requirement are just annoying.

 

I expect many flame responses telling me things like "if I don't like it don't play it" and such but the point is not that I'm trying to put down this style that other people like it's that I'd like an alternative style that doesn't irk me so bloody much.

A 1000 man fight sounds awesome. Of course they should all be melee and not ranged or the healer would be dead in a few seconds.

maybe you should try to pvp?

 

I'm not sure about that many enemies though, the lag is going to be murderous.

 

personally, I find what you are looking for - boring, but to each their own

the new ops have no puzzle fight

um maybe you should practice your mechanics that's the reason i love the new fights, not just every random can walk in like ev

So you want all fights to be tank and spank with no mechanics?

If you want to feel "epic" mmos are not the medium to be in. single player games are where u get to feel "epic". Since in mmos there has to be a level playing field and being able to "one shot" other players might be too much(ya think!). That being said from the other things you have stated it may be that pvp is what you are looking for. No complex fight mechanics and just kill them before they can kill you kinda thing.

i would probably stop playing this game if I would go to an OP that I would just stand in the middle each fight and kill wave after wave after wave of adds with nothing else to press other then:

 

2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5,

 

10 minutes later after that EPIC fight of me standing in the middle and mindlessly pressing buttons i will get me loot, then just around the corner - WAIT MORE WAVE OF ADDS so i sit in the middle of next room and for next 10 minutes:

 

2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5, 2, 5, 4, 4, 5, 6, 5,

 

WOOT - more loot

 

Next week I will improve my performance - i might throw in grande in that rotation above

 

 

no thank you. I love how whole group need to work as a team to beat bosses. Gate Commander Draxus or Calphaus are examples of it. Not just boring button pressing. Compare those fights to Nefra and level of enjoyment from killing more complex bosses are so much bigger.

 

Then if i would have to do ops like you asking for every week for two months i would probably be sick ...

 

But as someone else stated, if that's what you like maybe go and roam planets and kill hundreds of mobs just for the fun. Ask in your guild and maybe you will get 7 more people so you can form and ops and pretend you are invading Hoth or some other planet.

 

For now I am very happy with how the ops looks like and how complex most of the fights are.

well any video game is like that haha

I think you would be better suited at a game like Call of Duty.

I think you would be better suited at a game like Call of Duty.

 

This. Or go play Force Unleashed.

 

It's to bloody many steps I just want to kill things and feel like a bad*** sith!

 

It's also called every trash pull in the ops. Very few require any sort of CC or strategy, especially in the older ops. Go smash spec and roll your face on the keyboard for win.

 

I expect many flame responses telling me things like "if I don't like it don't play it" and such but the point is not that I'm trying to put down this style that other people like it's that I'd like an alternative style that doesn't irk me so bloody much

 

You are playing a game that is necessarily designed as such for balance. You ordered a car and are wondering why there's no wings and a propeller because you would prefer to fly instead of drive.

I see now describing what I had envisioned is a bit difficult, apologies in advance if the post goes long. I didn't mean an OP with like a single massive mob that once you kill it's over. I was meaning more like when an enemy enters a room the soldiers in there wouldn't just stand in their little groups waiting for you to come over to them they would all attack you en masse. In the current mechanics that wouldn't work cause more than 1 group of enemies and the team is dead cause all the enemies are about the same level as the players.

 

However in a hypothetical "real world" situation not every enemy at that "base" would be as good as the "crack squad" which is suppose to be the OP group. In fact most of them would be worse than trash mobs as they are nothing but "grunt" soldiers there mainly to act as fodder to slow the enemies advance. Simply put they don't do much damage or have much health but there are a lot of them. The story objective being you clear the room then use some device and have to guard the person using it from the more skilled enemies who are responding to the alert the fodder enemies sent out.

 

There would be a more diverse tier system to divide the enemies into. IE grunts, strong, hard, elites, under-bosses, mini bosses, big bosses, ect. We do have this now in the OP though the range is very limited cause they want every mob to be some what of a fight for the OPs group.

 

In addition to a more diverse leveling of enemies more practical elements to a fight would be nice, the AOE at people's feet is useful but an old gimmick now. Using more story driven elements would make it more fun such as explaining why players have to fight a boss a certain way instead of everyone enter the room and anyone who's done it before just listing off the things to do or avoid.

 

Since the way the game is designed you have like 5 attacks for just how to fire a gun or swing a sword they make rules like "use this attack here and don't use that attack there". Which if you are a healer for example can mess up your rotation or cost time when you are trying to heal someone resulting in you either letting someone die or missing the mark for an interrupt and the whole team takes a massive hit.

 

Those that like or love the complex OPs fights I'm not saying take them away just give people (like me) who don't enjoy an overly complex slugfest in an OP, a OP that they can enjoy as much as you enjoy your OPs.

Now that last post of yours is actually not that bad of an idea.

 

But they will never make an OPs like that just to please a fraction of the players looking for something a little different... it's not in the nature of the game. But I can very much picture one boss fight that can require similar mechanics. Draxus is probably the closest thing to this as well as the early part of Corruptor Zero.

 

I can very well imagine one boss mechanic where you seemingly are on some sort of battlefield and the commander sends waves at you. OPs would have to be split into 2 groups, one handling the boss (must be killed to stop waves) and the other group handling massive waves with maybe 1 or 2 strong elites mini bosses (with mechanics of their own) and a **** load of weak mobs.

 

This is actually a perfect setting for an OPs boss if we ever get back to empire vs republic content. (imagine waves of republic commando's and a couple of jedi elites <3).. and the boss would be some Jedi Master, of the jedi council.

 

Anyway, always good to dream a bit.

Okay i'm on a roll, let's keep up the dreaming:

 

Same setting as stated above but its mix-match of PVE/PVP.. it could be like a 1 Boss operation like TC:

 

8 vs 8.. Reps and Empire massive Arena, with waves of republic troopers and commando's (once again with added mechanics to it) and the goal is to split up ops group and confront other players while slashing down rep troopers. The winning team could get a chest and there goes the roll of the item based on lvl of difficulty. HM would just make the Rep/Emp troopers/commando's harder and would have added mechanics.

 

However let's not for the PVP'ers. Two different versions: you enter the PVE version, you have to be in PVE gear ---- and vice versa. Maybe the reward system would be different for PVPers, WZ comms + valor, the usual.. and PVEers get a chance at a roll over a piece of loot (can only be done once a week if your team won, however, if you lose you can keep going).

Edited October 25, 2013 by SDconqueror

Yes those ideas are both a lot closer to what I've envisioned compared to the current style of OP's combat. A few more story elements between fights, a fight with more simplistic requirements for victory, and just up the number of weak enemies to keep the challenge closer to the more complex fights.

 

There are a lot of ways it could be done focusing first on the story part of why you are there and exactly what your objectives are. Then branch the ideas out into how do you simulate what would happen on a real battlefield with the mechanics the game allows.

 

It would be over simplified to say this but think of your favorite FP with twice the enemies and a more active (almost PVP paced) combat, and more environmental elements and less combat elements such as a shield over the boss instead of constantly interrupting 3 of his like 6 attacks.

 

The whole point being give the players @ the end game levels the feeling like they are truly the elites in the galaxy instead of that they are as just strong as everyone else. For example on the Imp side you got winners of the great hunt, members of the dark council, the emperor's wraths, and some of the best spies in the galaxy but every grunt the enemies throw at you in a OP are (roughly) just as skilled and powerful as you are. See you need a few OPs where the enemy knows they (or at least anyone outside the big boss) can't match you in skill but hope to beat you with sheer numbers (but you are just too good for that) and that is the conflict skill VS numbers.

 

Let all those juggs and mara's cut a path through the hoard of melee enemies while the ranged DPS are cutting down the ranged enemies, the assassins/other stealthers are sneaking around turning the enemy turrets on their masters, and of course healers are keeping everyone alive. That would be an example of a like open area battle like a courtyard before breaching the main door of the enemy stronghold.

 

You could also do something like Dark fortress where the team has to split up for things like taking out the big machines that keep the big bosses chamber door locked. Each location could have a mini boss where you don't need a specific combo of classes to beat it but have something simple like it's a big droid with repair drones and if you kill the drones it will die faster. Instead of it sending out mobs with special requirement on how to fight each mob. An idea for a 8 man it would be 2 tanks, 2 heals, and 4 DPS, (16 man just double that) so that if the team has to split up you could still have a full group of 1 tank 2 DPS and 1 healer to take each route. Then make each route like a mini FP with it's own objective like disable the communications station or destroy the landing pad to prevent reinforcements. Then each of the separate 4 man groups can regroup outside the next large scale fight or boss areas.

 

Like I said it's an OP about making the players feel like the are the gods in a galaxy of mortals with that whole "I'm in a movie" feeling to the action.

Edited October 26, 2013 by Leadspitndragon

The OP's are needed for the best comms to get the best gear but I can not begin to describe how sick I am of the fight puzzle style.

 

Switch over to DDO. Lots of fun there, regarding puzzles - and TRAPS ! Yes ! Real, proper TRAPS !

With proper skills to detect & disarm them !

Edited October 26, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

maybe you should try to pvp?

 

Final Fantasy XI managed to have instances in which part of one of the major cities would close down and feature up to 300 npc mobs plus 100 pc's in coordinated battle every three hours. Maybe BW devs aren't capable of doing anything like the stuff FFXI and Everquest were doing 10 years ago. /shrug

Leadspitndragon;6888448]1

 

Let all those juggs and mara's cut a path through the hoard of melee enemies while the ranged DPS are cutting down the ranged enemies, the assassins/other stealthers are sneaking around turning the enemy turrets on their masters, and of course healers are keeping everyone alive. That would be an example of a like open area battle like a courtyard before breaching the main door of the enemy stronghold.

 

While this sounds like a good idea, for a medic this is a headache. You have everyone going in different directions and the medic trying to figure out where a person is to heal. If one person is on one side of the room and another is on the opposite side, who do we heal first.

 

We only have a set amount of range to heal from and if you are too far from a medic we can't heal you.

I would agree to this, on the condition that the "main" operation is essentially to kill a VIP that is not particually that strong but has political power or needs to die because they know something and it really is that simple.

 

For example, we'll go with an assault type run (24 man ops).

 

1337 strong opponents +10% elite +5% champion.

+4 Mini-boss style targets.

 

Objectives to win "assault" is to kill 60% of the above AND the VIP inorder to force a tactical retreat of the army.

 

Side objectives include - kill the "real" boss types that are within the city - kill them all for a bonus reward of Ultimate comms and loot chest that contains the highest rating loot for the mode. (Mainhand / chest etc)

 

So tank spankers can finish the run and kill stuff; have a small army with them and not think... whilst 8 members of the group could split off and do their own thing killing the side objectives.

 

Whadd'ya think?

All these suggestions are still "operations" and still instanced content. The thing that bothers me about SWTOR end game is that it seems that the devs just want to have operations and flashpoints and daily areas. It's time for something new. I'm not saying stop making new ops, but a new game type needs to be added. And it's time for some real world dynamic content. Stuff that happens on the planets and draws 55's back to those places and happens out in the open.

stand in the middle and just kill? I don't know you, I surely will be bored in 1 minute, what's the point to do something like that? just spaming you keyboard and everything dies, and you live like a hero.......do that in one fight in one op, it's ok, but a whole op 2 or 3 hours like that, I really don't know. Plus you have a good example like that, the Colicoid Warfare flashpoint that first trial..........just stand in the middle and kill, tell me you are not bored to hell. Edited October 28, 2013 by Horaciozhao

the new ops have no puzzle fight

 

Draxus and Calyphus are technically puzzle fights.

Another long post but replying to multiple questions proposed so anyway sorry for the long post.

 

On the issue of the healers range depending how you design the terrain it may be easier than you think. IF it was a single large open space like 100m+ by 100m+ it could be trouble. Though there are simple solutions to this that don't make it puzzle like, for example placing the enemy stacked in set locations. By that I mean the melee enemies would be on the ground level of a room with turrets one the outer edge of say make the room about 50m by 50m so healers could easily move to location to heal others and place the ranged enemies on a second level like a catwalk allowing them to be more easily attacked by the ranged DPS.

 

The whole issue is LOS for both the healers and dps to reach those in range. By allowing the healers to take a middle location between the "big brawl" in the middle and the "fringe" action on the edges of the the combat area they are able to heal more effectively. Also remember the point is that the tanks like normal are drawing the fire from the majority of the enemies making them the ones most likely to lose HP. While the ranged DPS or stealth members are picking of those on the outer edges or getting objectives.

 

That's on the bigger combat areas on the more story parts you can have the ops group split along separate paths in a way so the healers will again be most effective and have the easier time. Like breaking the ops down into mini FP's for each path.

 

 

On the issue of just standing in the middle killing that would get old no argument that's why that would only be a small part of the entire OP. My point is those massive mob fights wouldn't be on every one of the trash mobs instead more like what are now some of the smaller boss fights. You could easily do larger mobs for the trash mobs since they are weaker enemies but it wouldn't be as many as compared to a mob used as a mini boss fight.

 

The idea is that on a big fight areas would be having the story go something like your team of 8 or 16 has just regrouped after like a split up part of the OP and then breach a big locked door. Inside it could easily be a large hallway and swarms of enemies attack in a set number of waves. This way the enemy comes to the group and everyone doesn't have to run all over a large room. With this you could be nice on the players and put a trigger where the next wave won't spawn till the last guy of the previous wave is killed, or not if you want to it for HM. That would give healers more chances to top everyone's HP off before the next wave. Again this could be a room with some type of clicky or auto-turret, or healing droids that players can use to make it easier to clear the area or just easier on the healers depending on the story of whatever is going on in that area of the OP.

 

This would make best use of both stealth group members being able to sneak up to something before the combat starts or during combat. While allowing the ranged DPS to clearly target a set type of enemy and cover their team using their biggest advantage range. It also gives both the sorc's AOE heals and operative's ranged heals equal chances of reaching everyone. Throw a in few short cut-scenes or even just a dialogue explaining why players might have to split up, or be facing a massive mob of weaklings, or what have you and you've added drama and if done right suspense and action in between the fights making the players want to fight more.

 

The big difference between what I'm envisioning and the Colicoid Warfare flashpoint would be the whole pace of the fight. In that FP you just sit and point, there's not really much "action" for lack of a better word. That's why I want it easily set up where the players have easy LOS to their targets/allies and the pace of the fight is what makes it fun.

 

You could do a Colicoid swarm in an OP where you have something simple like 1-2 players of any class have to use a clicky or even use a large turret and the rest of the team has to keep them covered. Think of it like a story section where you have to do a King of the Hill style mission for a little bit.

 

With something like those examples I hope I showed it's possible to keep the OPs group in a tighter mob while allowing a clearer LOS for each player to attack/heal what's best for their role without making it a puzzle-fight. It's about using the unique parts of each role to it's max while keeping the actual required actions as simple as possible to maintain a faster pace to the action. I want people breathing hard and laughing from how fun it was between each of the fights.

So basically, you're looking for something like Halo's Firefight. Sounds fun to me; I support.

The OP's are needed for the best comms to get the best gear but I can not begin to describe how sick I am of the fight puzzle style. I don't want to switch to this guy to stun then quickly switch to a group member to cleanse then on to another enemy to interrupt. It's to bloody many steps I just want to kill things and feel like a bad*** sith! I could rant and rave about the ways OP's are setup but I'll just ask one thing.

 

If you want to just smash stuff may I suggest you try undermanning EV/KP 16 man? Just go with 1 tank, 2 dps and 1 healer. I dont remember if I did this on 16 man HM or NiM. All I know is that it was hellish to heal (not sure about the difficulty for the dps'ers and tank tbh).

Anyway. You wanted to do ops without puzzles. Now a days you can run EV/KP without paying attention to mechanics besides standing in the obvious bad stuff. Just try it.

 

About new opses which require only to kill wave after wave ... no thanks. I'm allready tunneling from boredom when my raidleader forces me to play sharpshooter.