Vlad_Dracul_ Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 (edited) Most powerful are hate and of course, love. Anger is really for losers, but i guess its very useful on Korriban at trials, when youre only apprentice, and you need focus your mind and power: and anger is simple tool even for acolyte. Its same like with all passions, though. Problem is only your interpretation, what is good passion, what makes you more powerful. Just look on Darth Jadus. He is calm guy, with deep hatred, with literally aura of fear, but he obviously well controlling himself. Darth Bane was also everything else than angered mindless butcher. And Darth Vectivus' passion lied in his bussiness, so his holocron is more guide for CEO's, lol: "Never borrow money from someone powerful enough to make you pay. Let your workers know you trust them...then watch them." Even Darth Tyranus said, that mercy is useful sometimes. Usefulness is also very important stuff in Sith ways. When you making own power structures, you just MUST be like Jedi, find knowledge, make deals in shadows, controlling own passions. Irony. So real good Sith is like shapeshifter. But most of them are inevitably consumed by the Dark Side and destroy by it. Who knows how good ruler would've Palpatine been, if he didnt turn more mad and ugly from own lightnings? Edited December 27, 2012 by Vlad_Dracul_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vulfey Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 Even Darth Tyranus said, that mercy is useful sometimes. Usefulness is also very important stuff in Sith ways. When you making own power structures, you just MUST be like Jedi, find knowledge, make deals in shadows, controlling own passions. Irony. So real good Sith is like shapeshifter. But most of them are inevitably consumed by the Dark Side and destroy by it. Who knows how good ruler would've Palpatine been, if he didnt turn more mad and ugly from own lightnings? Yeah but Tyranus was also Kria, OHMYGUUUUUD! I thought that earlier with someone else. The morality stands, Sith have none, Jedi bend easy with it sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad_Dracul_ Posted December 27, 2012 Share Posted December 27, 2012 The morality stands, Sith have none, Jedi bend easy with it sometimes Most Jedi and Sith are just extremists. Mindless monks vs. crazy butchers. Just because rigidity of jedi and incredibly simple fall to the dark side. Galaxy would appreciate more grey Jedi and Sith with another passions than just pathetic anger. Also killing lead to the dark side is only problem when you killing with anger. When youre cold self-controlling assassin, you cant risk to be consumed by DS (trick of grey jedis), or you can channel another passions. For food, sex or money, so good or risky life. (trick of Sith, what dont want be lured completely by DS to losing control) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Path-x Posted December 28, 2012 Author Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) I think the ideal Sith would be unbound by any moral standards and would have the Sith efficiency and disregard for weak and Jedi calmness and focus. When I was playing my Sith characters I went by that mentality. I always chose conversation responses that had calmness, wit and mocking attitude. This makes you look like you always have things under control and that nothing can get to you. I never chose options that included anger. I enjoyed the most when Jedi opponent got angry and I would preach to him, make fun of him and tell him how pathetic he is. To me anger is not only a loser emotion but also makes one look unintelligent. Edited December 28, 2012 by Path-x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FichutheDude Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 I think anger and fear are for losers and for the weak. These two emotions don't fit with SIth "survival of the strongest" behaviour and their winner mentality. Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors. Winners have no reason to be angry while losers do. As for fear, fear is a powerful weapon so therefore the Sith should induce fear and terror into their enemies, not the other way around. A Sith who is afraid sounds pathetic and weak. It's something at the base core of psychology. Fear/anxiety/stress/anger etc can be a positive thing unless it's controlling you . Fear can prevent you to be harmed just like it can save your life.. Too much of it can cause panic attack which make you unable to answer to your body reaction. Have your parent ever told you that you don't know danger when you was a kids/teen ? When you learn danger and fear it.. You learn how to protect yourselves from harm . If you run face to face with a bear. Fear can save you life. Unless you're prepared. Fear often replace it for survival . It's make your entire body reaction change. All the energy of your body is than used only for 1 thing. Survive. Even your eyesight vision change and make you much more focused . Batman is like a SITh lol. He use his own fear and impose it on others. Being scared/anxious is a normal thing. If you're never scared .. You're a fool or not fully developed. Strong people are scared like everyone else, but they manage to control their own fear or even use them positively. When you're scared of your own body reaction it's when it will control you. You can't control your fear .. but you can control how you perceive it. Even I will say that the coward are those who don't show their own weakness. Strong people cry and are scared. Overconfidence is a sign of weakness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad_Dracul_ Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 (edited) I think the ideal Sith would be unbound by any moral standards and would have the Sith efficiency and disregard for weak and Jedi calmness and focus. When I was playing my Sith characters I went by that mentality. I always chose conversation responses that had calmness, wit and mocking attitude. This makes you look like you always have things under control and that nothing can get to you. I never chose options that included anger. I enjoyed the most when Jedi opponent got angry and I would preach to him, make fun of him and tell him how pathetic he is. To me anger is not only a loser emotion but also makes one look unintelligent. Just like i said. Your Sith has obviously trolling as a passion Edited December 28, 2012 by Vlad_Dracul_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Path-x Posted December 29, 2012 Author Share Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) Just like i said. Your Sith has obviously trolling as a passion Hahaha well I guess you are right. Edited December 29, 2012 by Path-x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dranett Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) Well comparing sith to real life people is a bit unfair since the force doesn't exist in real life. Dark side of the force is powered by your emotions, the more emotional you are the stronger you get, although it is just as easy to lose control over that power and become an ignorant, pridefull, idiot which, is the sith downfall they use their emotions to fuel their strenght, but eventually get too pridefull and die because of it or get mortally injured (Anakin). However that generally happens with sith who are new and more rash, the key is like a lot of people mentioned before me is to control those emotions. Fear is the most basic and the easisest emotion that you can feel so, whether you like it or not nearly all sith feel fear. At first from their masters and/if they become a master from ther aprenticesses or other masters, this keeps them focused and constantly watching their backs. Anger is the gateway to hatred which can be directed towars a lot of things, towards the enemy, towards weaker sith, even towards the sith himself/herself it doesn't really matter though, as long as there is enough emotion it is fine. You can compare it to a boxer receiving a pep talk from his coach before a match but in this case emotions are not only a drive but, also the fuel for the dark side which the sith will use. You are taking the subject of anger as we normal people do, our bodies produce adrenalin we stop getting tired but become ragefull and lash out to, eventualy get exhausted after putting our bodies through an unnessecary ordeal but, it isn't the same with sith it is more of a constant thing, they always feel anger, always feel fear and hatred, these empower them they also corrupt them and deform them in some ways, of course there are exceptions to this but im not going to disscuss them here, what i wanted to say was in essence the anger that we feel as real people is different than what the sith feel. It is more like achieving control over your anger and channelling it to a certain object or person. I guess what im trying to say is it is a means to an end not the end itself. Edited January 3, 2013 by Dranett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 Anger is the gateway to hatred which can be directed towars a lot of things, towards the enemy, towards weaker sith, even towards the sith himself/herself it doesn't really matter though, as long as there is enough emotion it is fine. You can compare it to a boxer receiving a pep talk from his coach before a match but in this case emotions are not only a drive but, also the fuel for the dark side which the sith will use. You are taking the subject of anger as we normal people do, our bodies produce adrenalin we stop getting tired but become ragefull and lash out to, eventualy get exhausted after putting our bodies through an unnessecary ordeal but, it isn't the same with sith it is more of a constant thing, they always feel anger, always feel fear and hatred, these empower them they also corrupt them and deform them in some ways, of course there are exceptions to this but im not going to disscuss them here, what i wanted to say was in essence the anger that we feel as real people is different than what the sith feel. It is more like achieving control over your anger and channelling it to a certain object or person. I guess what im trying to say is it is a means to an end not the end itself.I would agree with you, anger and all emotions used by the Sith are simply means to an end. This is why I believe there must be other ways to achieve dark side power, perhaps without emotion and instead through meditation, or by feeding off the emotions of others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surinen Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 I would agree with you, anger and all emotions used by the Sith are simply means to an end. This is why I believe there must be other ways to achieve dark side power, perhaps without emotion and instead through meditation, or by feeding off the emotions of others. most probably meditation and channeling dark side of the force just like the Sith ( race ) did, there is no need for emotions, otherwise Emperor, Lord Scourge and Sith Warrior would be completely cut off from their powers since they are "numb" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordmird Posted January 3, 2013 Share Posted January 3, 2013 FEAR Fear is not to be feared Fear is edge Fear keeps you on your toes Fear keeps one eye open when you sleep Fear adds caution to courage CONQUER FEAR and fear is not your foe FEAR IS YOUR FRIEND. Royal Marines Commando It's A State Of Mind Sith Lords It's A State Of Mind and Body Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincr Posted January 4, 2013 Share Posted January 4, 2013 Anger and fear aren't tne end emotions of the Sith. The Sith fear most of all, losing their power either through defeat or death. Fear of anything heightens the survival instinct and gives you the requirement to dominate all instances of your life, your rivals etc. Anger The Sith don't really subscribe to Berzerker type of rage where they lash out at everything. The Sith know that anger on its own is a negative emotion, but negative emotions like fear and anger allow you to draw on the dark siide of the force. A calm Sith is a worthless Sith. Being calm is equivalent to being at peace with your situation or circumstances. Anger and Rage allow you to lash out at your cage and destroy it, "I can feel your anger, it gives you focus and makes you stronger" Darth Sideous to Skywalker. Sideous and Reven and Bane however knew that those base emotions had to an extent be controlled and unleashed at the time when you needed that power instead of just constantly being angry and afraid. You had to use those emotions in pursuit of a nobler goal whether it was the aquisition or power, or control or revenge. Also remember that Darth Plageous stated that first you need to gain control over yourself, then another person, then a group then a planet then a galaxy. But the first step was getting control of yourself. The Sith are not all blind rage enduced killers, the really successful ones, know when to use fear, and when it is to their benefits to slaugher and kill. Darth Bane even told his apprentice Darth Zannah that as a Sith you don't kill for killings sake that makes you a monster, you kill when it benefits you and helps you reach your goals. But a calm Sith is pretty well going to be dead meat against a Sith that fears losing his power and death and is angry at his situation because those Sith can draw on the full power of the Dark Side of the forth. A calm Sith can probably throw enough force lightning to light a cigar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Polyneux Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 (edited) Meh.. The goal has always been that... the goal.. Power.. the Dark Side of the Force... That's the key... the -Dark- side of the Force. It is impossible really to relate these emotional states to real life examples... Of course anger can make you sloppy. Of course fear can make you sloppy. Being completely apathetic can make you sloppy too. Trusting everyone can make you sloppy. ANYTHING can be done to a degree that causes failure, we could spend all day thinking about that. But we're not -really- talking about emotions. We're talking about the Force. What's interesting about the Force is, as real life beings, there is no possible way that we can imagine or relate to it. Sure we can dream of telekinesis or whatever, but if you read between the lines or take a viewpoint away from Ego, you see a much powerful mechanic at work. It's like a drug addiction. You are rewarded for lashing out in anger by this dose of power. Others have compared it to adrenaline. As your emotions get more complex you get more complex rewards. You -want- to survive off of this, just like any other drug addiction, so you become -good- at whatever it is that you need to do to create those feelings. Bad Sith lash out irresponsibly, get exploited and killed, even by their own people. That's how the game works. Good Sith force those emotions to work for them. Bad Jedi lash out in anger, not knowing how to control it, and get killed, even by their own people. That's how the game works. Good Jedi focus on their passive feelings or basket weaving and coax those feelings to work for them. The Force is an individual thing. Edited January 5, 2013 by Polyneux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxetius Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Fear is the mightiest emotion. You can't be courageous without fear, because courage is the ability to CONQUER it. Fear of death is the most important and most powerful motivator there is. Without fear of death, their own death or the death of those who matter to them, people are not nearly as capable of pushing themselves to do the impossible. A true Jedi does not know fear, and thus does not know courage, valor, or heroism... because all of those necessitate fear. Something to think about. I agree with you on Anger, however. It gives you flash strength but makes you stupid... Generally not useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FINNT Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to sufferinggg." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colyer Posted January 6, 2013 Share Posted January 6, 2013 Rationality need not apply to the Sith Empire but, from the mindset of the Sith at least, I don't really agree with you. Anger and fear are very important to militaristic societies. In order to maintain order in the face of decisions that the Empire makes, you have to have a constant "enemy". Right now, anger and fear are directed at the Republic. (If you're thinking "How many Sith Lords have you seen that are afraid of the Republic?" I'll get to that in a second.) Even in times of peace, there has to be a threat, imagined or not. Anger and fear keep the Empire running. From the perspective of an the Sith Order itself, the Dark Side isn't the Light Side. It isn't about to offer you something for nothing. The Dark Side demands fuel. The most available fuel for beginning Dark Side practitioners is fear. Fear of their masters. Fear of failure. Fear of death... so on and so on. So you get a taste of the Dark Side, and we all know that from there "forever will it dominate your destiny." And then it escalates. Fear gets you your start, and then comes the anger (hate -> suffering was it?). In the later stages of the escalations, the practitioner isn't himself anymore. And then rationality really does just go out the window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariaD Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Thank you for this thread. The idea of looking at (real life) physiological roots of Sith powers is fascinating. Some comments say it can't be done, and some that it makes sense. I am with the "mostly makes sense" group. Humans evolved fear and anger for good reasons. These are survival traits. So, the basic premise is that it is adaptive to experience fear and anger. In particular, I am thinking of very strong responses. Folk wisdom comes to mind. "Don't mess with cornered animals" and "mama bear" in particular. People (and animals) are capable of amazing bursts of speed or very strong fighting when scared enough, for themselves or their loved ones. You probably have some family legends about it. My mom likes to talk about the time she lifted a two-ton concrete block off my foot, when I was a toddler. I just had my foot stuck under, but my mom thought the block fell on me, got scared, and became super-strong for a second. A strong electric discharge sometimes makes a person "fly away" many meters. What really happens is the muscles tense, all at once, way beyond their normal strength. It's like a Force Charge in real life. It can tear tendons and break bones and what not, so Don't Try This At Home . So in my headcannon, the Sith use the advanced versions of these real-life physiological reactions, in controlled and refined ways. This use of the Force still hurts their bodies, just like real-life feats of that sort aren't good for your health. But these abilities evolved because being eaten by a saber-toothed tiger is even worse, health-wise! Edited January 7, 2013 by MariaD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 (edited) Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith Raw Sith: Those Sith who have completely embraced their emotions to the point where their emotions and the dark side controls them, dominates them and turns them into its own weapon. They are basically slaves to its will and lash out at anything and everything, they have no real plans or goals they just want to kill and destroy. Perfect examples of these would be Sion and Nihilus. Savage and Maul can also be considered to be 'raw Sith'. Focused Sith: Those Sith who have honed their emotions and have some measure of control over them, however they are still driven by the dark side and corrupted by it. They are not mindless killers, but the dark side often takes over their will and drives them to seek power for powers sake. Examples of these would be most Sith such as Exar Kun, Dooku, Revan & Malak and even Sidious. They all sought power for powers sake. Uber-Focused Sith: Very few Sith achieve this stage. These Sith have completely and utterly mastered their emotions. It is not the dark side that drives them, but their own will, they set out their own goals and plans, not the dark sides. They don't collect power for powers sake, they have a mission, and the dark side is just a way of achieving it. I can only really think of two examples of this, Darth Traya and Darth Vectivus. IMO all Sith should strive to achieve this position, otherwise the dark side will corrupt them and they will become its weapon, rather than the dark side being there's. Insane Sith:A special category for Sith who have become so obsessed with attaining power and preserving it that they exist to do nothing else, all traces of their personality have been wiped clean. They are just power hungry maniacs beset with paranoia and a desire for more power. As you would expect, the Sith Emperor fits this category perfectly. Edited January 17, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad_Dracul_ Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Just a thought, but its my opinion that there are three types of Sith Good categories. However, amongst uber-focused Sith I missing Darth Bane, who is considered to be a Sith'ari. Siths consumed by the Dark Side are just pawns to manipulate and kill, like Tyranus' bunch of Sith pets. Better self-control means tougher Sith and better chance to achieve the title of the Dark Lord. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Good categories. However, amongst uber-focused Sith I missing Darth Bane, who is considered to be a Sith'ari. Siths consumed by the Dark Side are just pawns to manipulate and kill, like Tyranus' bunch of Sith pets. Better self-control means tougher Sith and better chance to achieve the title of the Dark Lord. Always.The fact is you have to look at it from a ideological perspective as well. Bane very much mastered his emotions, but not fully. After all what was the purpose of the 'Grand Plan', the 'Order of the Sith Lords'? To destroy the Jedi and place the Sith as sole rulers of the galaxy? Why? For what goal? Bane wasn't opposed to the corruption of the Republic, or a staunch believer in the effectiveness of authoritarian rules. He had no political goals or aspirations, and wasn't interested in achieving peace, or greater good for the galaxy. He just wanted power and lots of it, to fuel his dark side passions. In such a sense, the dark side controlled him. I also think at least from an ideological standpoint, Vader would be in this 3rd section. Purely because he actually believed in the values of the Empire, and actually wanted peace for the galaxy. I don't believe he fell to the dark side for power, he fell because he wanted to save the woman he loved, and after that so he could achieve a government that he had always believed necessary for effective rulership in the galaxy. But he didn't achieve full control of his emotions, hence his rash move to kill Padme, that was the dark side controlling him. And after that is was as much coincidence than strength of will that made Vader believe strongly in the ideals of the Galactic Empire. I'm also debating whether Plagueis should be up there. He did use the dark side as a tool to achieve knowledge of the Force, but that was more a hobby, his goal was the same as all the other Sith Lords. To destroy the Jedi and take control of the Republic. IMO that is not truly his goal, that's the dark side talking. Same for Bane. I mean if you strip away the dark side, would they be the same? What has Bane of Plagueis got against the Republic? Or the Jedi? Nothing I can really think of. However Uber-Focused Sith doesn't = uber powerful. Traya was a formidable Sith Lord but she wasn't the strongest. In fact I think you need a trace of the light in you to achieve such focus, Jedi preached control over emotions, while Sith embraced them. This is why its very difficult, especially for powerful Sith, to control their emotions, without not using them. But if they don't fully control their emotions, their emotions will always partially control them. So I'd put Bane and Plagueis in category 2. I don't think many Sith ever achieved category 3. (Actually I remember one Sith Lord called Darth Vectivus, he was just a buisness man who used the dark side, he never let it control him) But yes, in order to become a true Dark Lord of the Sith you need to focus your power. But not even Darth Bane could achieve uber-focus. If anything the prophecy worked against him, as 'Sith'ari' he has already been labelled as chief weapon of the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincr Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 "Fear is the path to the Dark Side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to sufferinggg." Don't let yourself get seduced by the narrow dogmatic view of the jedi council. In order to be a great leader one most understand all sides of the puzzle. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to POWER UNLIMITED POWER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captaincr Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Don't let yourself get seduced by the narrow dogmatic view of the jedi council. In order to be a great leader one most understand all sides of the puzzle. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to POWER UNLIMITED POWER Except Bane knew that he had no political aspirations, he knew that he was merely the first step in the Sith's revenge against the Jedi, he knew that his job was to begin the long gathering of knowledge and the creation of the levers that would eventually create the downfall of the republic and the Jedi Order. He knew his place within the darkside and that made him different from all of the other Sith Lords who eventually tried to seize power in the mundane world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad_Dracul_ Posted January 7, 2013 Share Posted January 7, 2013 Don't let yourself get seduced by the narrow dogmatic view of the jedi council. In order to be a great leader one most understand all sides of the puzzle. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to POWER UNLIMITED POWER Jedi code seems as a logical failure, cause 'knowledge is power' without doubts. Vision of perfect Jedi is mindless robot doing 'good' things indoctrinated to their minds as software in droids. Vision of perfect Sith is free being controlling the Dark Side to achieve his goals. So obviously, Sith code much more appreciates personal qualities and capabilities, so from philosophic and psychologic point of view is superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rauzgriz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 Good categories. However, amongst uber-focused Sith I missing Darth Bane, who is considered to be a Sith'ari.] Personally I believe Bane is between the second and third categories. His aspirations and goals are in the third category, as he knew he could never be the one to take control of the galaxy for the Sith, and everything he did was to set up the new Sith order for a long and slow rise to power. But for his fighting, and short term goals, he was definitely more of the second category, as it's described in the books that he often went into an uncontrollable battle rage, and had trouble controlling his anger, even in the third book. Though mostly in the first and second books, the second especially, for reasons that the readers of the book should remember quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaedusz Posted January 8, 2013 Share Posted January 8, 2013 (edited) Anger greatly diminishes ones focus and mental performance and consequently increases chance for errors. Only if you let yourself be controlled by it,which is not the way of the sith.The way of the sith is to use it and direct it as you wish,to sometimes channel the force more effectively. Successful Sith are not slaves to their emotions,they use them. Edited January 8, 2013 by Kaedusz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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