ZooMzy Posted February 22, 2014 Share Posted February 22, 2014 Name: Zuhara Screenshot Link: http://i58.tinypic.com/jhu9o3.jpg Record Broken: Most Protection in a Single WZ #4, Most Protection in a Single Life #1 Value: 457,341 Type of Match: Ranked 4v4 Date of SS taken: 2/22/2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonMercer Posted February 23, 2014 Author Share Posted February 23, 2014 Records are updated!! When I get back from doing my taxes I'm going to be making a few changes to rules and records, cleaning stuff up, do the requested actions, etc, but nothing major. I will release all the changes in a Bioware-like patch notes and will probably do it like that from now on (lol love it when they try to RP in the patch notes) So stay tuned!! Also keep those ranked records coming!! I'm hoping we can have a full ranked records area for legacy when they end season 1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted February 24, 2014 Share Posted February 24, 2014 Name: Myrmedon Screenshot Link: http://i58.tinypic.com/atm7ms.jpg Record Broken: Highest Overall Protection #2 Value: 918,940 Type of Match: Unranked 8v8 Date of SS taken: 2/23/14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonMercer Posted February 24, 2014 Author Share Posted February 24, 2014 (edited) PATCH NOTES 2.6.1 Rules Changed Tie breaker rules to accomadate ties between a healer and DPS/Tank Please see Rules post for more. Records The Records have been updated to now included a Highest Protection: Round category. This now allows tanks to pick a round they did not die in or had a good amount of protection before biting the dust to post more records. Please keep in mind that the "In One Life" category is still taken from the OVERALL tab. (Debate for a Most Damage Taken: Round is open for the community) After much debate with Baron Deathmark, all instances of the word "warzone" in the arena records have been changed to "arena" to ... "Promote the difference, and allow players to understand that the Season One Rewards are for arena(ranked) matches only" according to Baron Deathmark. (I was strong armed by two Nikto thugs during the "debate") Text and Visual Changes Fixed nearly every instance of the URL line extending from the numbers to the letters before (was bugging me and it just looks better) Fixed several instances of missing record numbers Fixed several instances of missing guild tags Added Tactical Ganking Solutions <TGS> to the guild directory and changed requested tags of characters to such. The War 8v8: The Republic has taken control of another category and now has 7! The Empire rallied taking 3 more categories to come up with 4, but this still puts them 3 behind. 4v4 Unranked: The Empire has stolen a category away from the Republic! They are now deadlocked at 2 a piece! 4v4 Ranked: The Empire is still in the lead with a 3 to 0 score over the Republic. Jedi Grand Master Shan Has been doing her best to rally Republic forces, but it seems for naught. (Let me know if the color needs to be changed and/if spoiler tags are needed) Edited February 24, 2014 by AntonMercer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
windogie Posted February 26, 2014 Share Posted February 26, 2014 One does not simply leave the Dread Masters. Omg zu it isn't funny unless you make it a meme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nayrhollis Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Name: --> Crathor (Deadly Obsession) Screenshot Link: http://imgur.com/uyMq4bX Record Broken (Ex. DPS #2): MOST PROTECTION IN A SINGLE LIFE #1 / HIGHEST PROTECTION #4 (after Myrmedon) Value(Ex: 1532.52 DPS): 752,808 / 774,472 Type of Match (Ranked, Unranked, Challenge): 8v8 unranked Date of SS taken: 2/26/14 P.S....please change all "Knin's" to Drizzt when you get the chance! Thanks ant <3 Edited February 28, 2014 by Nayrhollis 1 person QQing about putting the wrong name....idk why QQ if my point is still there and the owner of the thread realises it. Guess they QQ to QQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) Just out of pure curiosity, why are 2 highest kills records accepted from healers? You are aware that healer kill count piggybacks off of those that they heal right? Those numbers are basically a sum of all the kills in the warzone. It isn't legitimate at all. Bioware made it that way after healers complained about low medal counts, it isn't fair to other dps who actually have to work at it rather than sit back, cast heals and reap all the benefits from what their entire team of dps essentially did. To the guy above ^, your highest protection is #3, not #4, and I am nowhere on that list I believe you mean Myrmedon. Edited February 27, 2014 by PoliteAssasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaniAkavir Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Here we go again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turretboy Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Just out of pure curiosity, why are 2 highest kills records accepted from healers? You are aware that healer kill count piggybacks off of those that they heal right? Those numbers are basically a sum of all the kills in the warzone. It isn't legitimate at all. Bioware made it that way after healers complained about low medal counts, it isn't fair to other dps who actually have to work at it rather than sit back, cast heals and reap all the benefits from what their entire team of dps essentially did. To the guy above ^, your highest protection is #3, not #4, and I am nowhere on that list I believe you mean Myrmedon. Thats actually a fair post tbh. /agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoliteAssasin Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) So why'd you post a wall of text? Trying to start something or just to get that last word? I posted it before I took a second glance to see the tags of the players. I suppose I need to spell everything out for you. Still waiting on your legitimate counter to my argument. Having the last word is irrelevant to the topic of discussion. Thats actually a fair post tbh. /agreed /Thanks. It just makes sense, otherwise there would be nothing but healers up there for the killing record given enough time. The DPS up there have respectable killing blows, while the healers have like 3. (Basically finishing off someone with low hp). Edited February 27, 2014 by PoliteAssasin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaniAkavir Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) This discussion has been had before, and the following quote pretty much summerized what the majority agreed on 9 months ago: I would recommend just mechanically recording the numbers that come off the screen shots. Any other sort of interpretation will lead to controversy. We all know the stats recorded here are mostly meaningless. "# of Kills" is at best "# of kills contributed to through some arbitrary game mechanic". If you start splitting this out between healers and DPS (and what are you going to do about hybrids?) you might want to start making up stats like "Most damage done by a class that doesn't have Smash" and "Most killing blows not done via Takedown". The stats I would love to see are breakdowns by spec. I would also love to see stats about CC. But we can't get those, so I wouldn't sweat trying to interpret the ones we can. Of course, people may hold different opinions now than what they had 9 months ago. At the end of the day, it'll be up to Anton's discretion to allow the healers to take that top kills spot or not. P.S. This will be the 3rd time that we'd have this discussion if people start responding, get the popcorns ready! I posted it before I took a second glance to see the tags of the players. I suppose I need to spell everything out for you. Still waiting on your legitimate counter to my argument. Having the last word is irrelevant to the topic of discussion.Slandering on a guild with baseless accusations is irrelevant to the topic of discussion as well, so I only replied in kind Edited February 27, 2014 by LaniAkavir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xContex Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Bioware allows healers to get kills SOLELY because they couldn't get 8 medals in a warzone to get full rewards. It was a QoL improvement in the early days so healers don't get completely screwed for pvp'ing otherwise you'd have healers with 4-5 medals today getting half the amount of the rewards other players would be getting. It was totally unfair for them so bioware did the right thing and changed the system. However the way the system works is whenever a player gets a kill if the healer has healed them that healer gets a kill too. So lets take the example of 1 sage dropping salvation on the ground in a voidstar and 5 smashers are sitting in that salvation. Those 5 smashers go ahead and farm the **** out of the other team resulting in 100 total kills that match. Each Smasher getting around 20-30 total kills. The healer at the end of the match would have 100. The score board would show something like this: Healer - 100 kills - 0 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken Smasher #1 - 29 Kills - 430000 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken Smasher #2 - 27 Kills - 410000 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken Smasher #3 - 25 Kills - 390000 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken Smasher #2 - 23 Kills - 370000 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken Smasher #5 - 21 Kills - 350000 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken PVP Scrub - 0 Kills - 70000 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken PVP Novice - 0 Kills - 50000 Damage - 200000 Damage Taken Now you tell me. The record of kills in a warzone is an offensive record. Where in that score sheet does it show offense produced by a healer? The healer didn't earn those kills. It was a QoL bonus so they don't end with 4 medals. If you want to keep this thread legit as I hope you do you'd consider this and remove any healer records from the kill count. There are exceptions to this. If the healer is doing enough damage to make sense. Like if they end up with 300k damage given and 400k Healers with a kill count of 80 that makes much more sense then 0 damage given with 100 kills. Make the right call and use common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) No, healers get credit for kills because they assist the entire team through heals. So people don't get solo kill medals with a healer keeping them alive when they fight 1v1. The kill count in this game has always been an assist type count, meaning Smashers get kills based on if their AOE hits players that eventually die from that combat. Or DOT spec players getting kills because they have damage ticking on the entire team. Who cares if healers get the count because they are assisting in kills too? If you wanted to be fair about who truly got the most kills in a WZ, the solo kill count should be the only number that matters. Instead, you have that kill count that literally is just an "assist count" based on the mechanics of the game. Assist through heals or assist through damage. Either way, it takes minimal effort to assist in a kill, offensively or defensively. Edited February 27, 2014 by ZooMzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xContex Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 No, healers get credit for kills because they assist the entire team through heals. So people don't get solo kill medals with a healer keeping them alive when they fight 1v1. The kill count in this game has always been an assist type count, meaning Smashers get kills based on if their AOE hits players that eventually die from that combat. Or DOT spec players getting kills because they have damage ticking on the entire team. Who cares if healers get the count because they are assisting in kills too? If you wanted to be fair about who truly got the most kills in a WZ, the solo kill count should be the only number that matters. Instead, you have that kill count that literally is just an "assist count" based on the mechanics of the game. Assist through heals or assist through damage. Either way, it takes minimal effort to assist in a kill, offensively or defensively. With that logic tanks should get heal credit because they assist healers through guard lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonMercer Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 (edited) I will be making a post about this issue after a bit of research and application. It will be an edit to this current post in spoiler tags. EDIT: Ok... for those of you TL;DR people out there... TL;DR Answer: No. I will not be separating healer kill record claims from DPS because of a game mechanic, at this time. If enough community opinion is levied, I will seriously re-consider this decision. TL Answer: Please keep in mind I'm trying to be civil. No mudslinging, no calling out. This is all in response to Neo's valid question as to why healer kill records are not separated, let alone accepted. First off, It seems this issue has been brought up before, also by Neo, and I wanted to see what Hula had said in his thread concerning this issue (was a pain in the butt as his thread was 13 pages back >_<) I perused through it and came upon the start of the discussion, which was Neo asking about healer kill records (response #148). This goes on for awhile with people "discussing" back and forth. Some about off heals, some about participation, but Hula actually never gave a real clear answer except for... Well my thoughts are just to either take the number for how it is regardless of how it's earned or simply take it out ^_^ . I'm a big fan of letting the game decide these things I agree with this statement in such I do not want to take something out that everyone can actually participate. Kenji already quoted him, but I'm going to do it again as I also like this point... I would recommend just mechanically recording the numbers that come off the screen shots. Any other sort of interpretation will lead to controversy. We all know the stats recorded here are mostly meaningless. "# of Kills" is at best "# of kills contributed to through some arbitrary game mechanic". If you start splitting this out between healers and DPS (and what are you going to do about hybrids?) you might want to start making up stats like "Most damage done by a class that doesn't have Smash" and "Most killing blows not done via Takedown". The stats I would love to see are breakdowns by spec. I would also love to see stats about CC. But we can't get those, so I wouldn't sweat trying to interpret the ones we can. I do not want people fighting over records because of mis-interpretation and having to start splitting everyone up into their own category. Now concerning Off-Healing and/or DoT spec'd DPS. These actually fall under the same thing as a main healer. Now before you start tearing your hair out with "OMG No they are not!" let me finish. They may even have more of an advantage then a straight healer because they can both heal and dps. Neo made the point, in Hula's thread, that some classes cannot really choose to not off heal, such as the watch/anni knight/warrior, and he is correct, but none the less those off heals will give you kill credit regardless. This applies to the Heal/DPS classes more so. I went into a match a little while ago on my BAL Sage and came up with 30 kills. All I did was dot people. Don't believe me? Here is the Torparse log, and I only used my self heal, possibly a Dev. or two on myself. As you can see, I doubled all but 2 people in the wz, without off healing. I'm pretty sure if I had kept some ppl up with a heal or two that number would have been larger. Looking at this... If the kills were separated; I would have to have everyone who could off-heal(no matter how little), everyone who was in some sort of hybrid, everyone who was a full DoT spec to be in this new separate category, and honestly... isn't that like 50% or possibly more(assumption not a real fact) of the specs being played right now? I'd rather not deal with the headache of splitting people up right now. Another way of looking at it is this. Right now the basis of the argument is that healers get to sit back and rake in kills through artificial means while the DPS "do all the work". .... What's artificial about it? The healer has to put effort into healing a DPS so they stay alive long enough to kill someone. They were helping that DPS kill the person by keeping the DPS alive to do so correct? Why should the healer not get credit for it? Sure some DPS can kill people without a healer, but then because you don't have a healer the next enemy comes along and one shots you cause you were low from the fight with the last person, and we all know sometimes WZ are won and lost based on whether or not a side has a healer. The point is, the healer, whether main or off, is still contributing, and sometimes majorly, to that current warzone and that is why they cried about it in the beginning and were given this mechanic. Having said all that, I stand by the decision of not splitting them up at this time. Like I said in the TL;DR answer. IF, and only IF there is enough of the community who says "We want segregation!" (joke please don't kill me >_<) Then I will really look at splitting that category, because, as of right now, only two people have been the proponents to change it, and that is definitely not enough to make me change my mind. I may even consider splitting the whole of records into advance class when 2.7 drops as I thought there was going to be a new tier of PVP gear coming with that, not sure, but this is only an option if people are for it. Either way, please continue to discuss this while still posting records as you always have. I welcome all opinions and any jabs at my logic. If it starts devolving into something that may get the thread closed I will call an end it and the decision will be set in stone. This decision is 75% final atm, unless the community believes that 25% should win out. Sources: Hula's PVP Thread Current(this) PVP Thread Argh! I need to stop reading Zu's posts.... His wall'o'text gene is starting to rub off on me >_< Edited February 27, 2014 by AntonMercer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 With that logic tanks should get heal credit because they assist healers through guard lol. If that were the case, the actual topic of discussion would be healers getting credit for damage numbers DPS put out, not assists in kills. So simply put, no, that's not what the logic indicates. If there was a number indicating how many lives were saved by heals, then yes, tanks would get a huge number through Protection points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Remember the days when PvP records were being kept by actual PvPers....good times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AntonMercer Posted February 27, 2014 Author Share Posted February 27, 2014 With that logic tanks should get heal credit because they assist healers through guard lol. lol. That was funny Remember the days when PvP records were being kept by actual PvPers....good times... Oh I pvp. I'm just not the hardcore, stay in que the entire time you are logged in, sort of PVPer. This actually keeps me a little more unbiased in PVP discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdrianDmitruk Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 It'd be very interesting to see record categories by AC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nayrhollis Posted February 27, 2014 Share Posted February 27, 2014 Name: Myrmedon Screenshot Link: http://i58.tinypic.com/atm7ms.jpg Record Broken: Highest Overall Protection #2 Value: 918,940 Type of Match: Unranked 8v8 Date of SS taken: 2/23/14 That record I previously posted was my friends...and no he gets the #4 slot because Myrmedon posted this AFTER ant updated the records. So that will put myrm at #2 with his new record AND MOVING HIS OWN 900k RECORD TO #3 and putting Crathor's at #4. Good game math and eyesight. Games might be a little too much for those with sensitive eyesight. Just saying.....<3 good duo btw...so damn annoying to try to kill... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camelpockets Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 And this is why I don't give a **** about ground PvP lol. I play on my slinger and enjoy it playing against the people who aren't complaining here and that's about it. You kids have fun. I'll continue blowing people up in my Flashfire <3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xContex Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 If that were the case, the actual topic of discussion would be healers getting credit for damage numbers DPS put out, not assists in kills. So simply put, no, that's not what the logic indicates. If there was a number indicating how many lives were saved by heals, then yes, tanks would get a huge number through Protection points. I don't think you comprehend what I am saying. Let me break it down for you so you can understand. Heals assist the entire team through heals therefore they get credit for the DPS KILLING the opposing player -> Your statement Tanks assist the healers in keeping them alive thru guard so they can HEAL the entire team therefore tanks get credit for the healers being able to HEAL -> My statement Do you see how they relate? It isn't hard to understand. This is more like a cause and effect. The healer did this so the DPS could do that. The tank guarded healer X so the healer go heal player Y. It is the same damn relationship. Now like I said previously kills weren't given to healers. It is now ONLY because their medal count was low every match so it was merely a QoL improvement. The moment you understand that is the moment you understand what I am talking about. Now with that said you are welcome to think you are right. It is your opinion I won't take it away from you. But I'm going to leave it at that. You are going to respond with a novel. I will respond with nothing. Better yet I won't even come back to this thread because the moment I handed it off the next poor soul is the moment I stopped caring about records =p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Fred Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 Common Scynce You should try using smaller words for them. Also maybe provide a link to an online dictionary for the poor soul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted February 28, 2014 Share Posted February 28, 2014 (edited) I don't think you comprehend what I am saying. Let me break it down for you so you can understand. Heals assist the entire team through heals therefore they get credit for the DPS KILLING the opposing player -> Your statement Tanks assist the healers in keeping them alive thru guard so they can HEAL the entire team therefore tanks get credit for the healers being able to HEAL -> My statement Do you see how they relate? It isn't hard to understand. This is more like a cause and effect. The healer did this so the DPS could do that. The tank guarded healer X so the healer go heal player Y. It is the same damn relationship. Now like I said previously kills weren't given to healers. It is now ONLY because their medal count was low every match so it was merely a QoL improvement. The moment you understand that is the moment you understand what I am talking about. Now with that said you are welcome to think you are right. It is your opinion I won't take it away from you. But I'm going to leave it at that. You are going to respond with a novel. I will respond with nothing. Better yet I won't even come back to this thread because the moment I handed it off the next poor soul is the moment I stopped caring about records =p. I do comprehend. But again, this is an argument for kill count, not how much damage a DPS puts out because a healer kept them alive. If there was a stat column for saving lives, the logic would dictate tanks get credit for the people they throw guards to and the taunting they do to alleviate the job of healers, same as how healers alleviate the chance of a DPS dying against the opposing team's damage, especially since you wouldn't consider it a 1v1 if one of the fighters was getting healed by a pocket healer in the back. However, again, you are comparing the reverse for that through kill count to something like "healers should get credit for the DPS that DPS put out" through "tanks should get credit for the heals that healers put out". Therefore, the logic you are claiming through my statement is actually not true in the slightest, completely different. If I had said, "Healers should get credit for the damage numbers DPS put out because they keep them alive with their heals", then you could make that claim that it's wrong through the invented path of logic you made there. But since a healer is more involved in a kill count than you seem to give them credit for, your statement is wrong. Bye bye. Was kind of disappointed you stopped, but at least you're playing the part of an arrogant villain well. GG. EDIT: Since this was taken out lol Name: Zuhara Screenshot Link: http://i62.tinypic.com/28tcs5w.jpg Record Broken: Most Damage in Single Warzone #5 Value: 1,395,247 Type of Match: Unranked 8v8 Date of SS taken: 2/27/2014 Edited March 1, 2014 by ZooMzy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonblooded Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 Name: Erriyana , Dead on Arrival Screenshot link: http://i.imgur.com/MSeyyWf.jpg Record broken: Most damage taken in a single warzone #3 Value: 11118985 Type of match: Unranked Date of SS: 03/01/2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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