Does Naga Sadow get the Sadow'een? Or their battle droids. Both worked for Sadow when he ruled.

Everyone makes good points, apart from Aubere who's point is fatally flawed.

 

Exar Kun could feasibly use his powers in Force sense to find Naga Sadow (was he actually able to do that? Are there any accounts when he did something like that?) but Sadow being a powerful Sith Sorcerer could easily hide his presence using force concealment. And even if Kun did find him, Sadow would not only have a sizeable fleet protecting him but would be able to either see the incoming attack through a force vision, or simply sense Kun's approaching presence. So he could just jump to hyperspace at the last moment and leave Kun with a fleet to contend with.

 

Or he could use Kun's power to his advantage, allow himself to be found and then leave a trap for Kun e.g. an ambush which could result in Kun's death if his fleet is overwhelmed.

 

And in terms of Force illusions, it gives Sadow an edge in more ways than just larger numbers. He can use the illusions to distract other forces, conceal his real numbers or as some of you mentioned to distract fighters from the real threat, the illusions will severly weaken the effectiveness of Kun's battle machine. But yes, much like in the Great Hyperspace War, once Kun discovers they are illusions, the advantage will be lost.

 

Question, how does Kun's arm match up with Sadow's in terms of numbers?

Exar Kun has done that before. Remember how he found Ulic Qel-Droma? Naga Sadow's Dark energies would act as a beacon for Kun's senses.

Naga Sadow would be too busy directing the battles to actually feel Exar Kun coming. He never saw Gav Daragon coming, and the surprise of Daragon's attack made him lose concentration.

Kun knows about these illusions. He studied Naga Sadow's teachings and learned about Sith Sorcery. Not to mention Kun's Massassi won't be affected by these illusions(their minds are too simple to be affected by Battle Meditation).

Kun basically has what Naga Sadow has and what he can make. Millions of Krath, hordes of Massassi, millions of Krath War Droids, and the Mandalorians(makes sense to add in the Mandalorians since Ulic is apart of this battle).

I'm a huge Exar Kun fan. I haven't been involved in the last 2 maybe 3 rounds of the Kaggath series. So here's my contribution:

Naga Sadow:

Sadow relied on his meditation sphere mainly. He hovered above one planet and used the Force to create illusions and direct troops throughout the galaxy. He once demonstrated the power to manipulate solar activity, causing an unstable star to explode. The illusions were simply illusions, and Kun's forces are fighting alongside real Sith monstrosities, so I doubt they'd fear Sadow's illusions. Sadow's forces consisted of almost all Sith, giving him less diversity and not many different talents to use.

Ally: Gav Daragon

Gav was taught many Sith magics by Naga Sadow, and had a strong Force sensitivity. Although he didn't have any unique powers, he also never recieved formal Jedi training. Eventually he realized how terrible Sadow's empire was.

Exar Kun:

Kun was trained as a Jedi by Vodo Siosk-Bass, and was quite proficient with a lightsaber. Him and his ally, Ulic Qel-Droma, were (in a sense) the progenitors of Revan and Malak. If Qel-Droma hadn't betrayed Kun, the Brotherhood of the Sith might've won the war. Kun was also well-versed in Sith sorcery, and found it fascinating. He commanded a lare and diverse army, consisting of the Krath, Dark Jedi, Mandalorians, and Massassi. He was an incredibly capable duelist as well as an good strategist.

Ally: Ulic Qel-Droma

Also a former Jedi, Qel-Droma eventually became a warlord of the Empress Teta System. Trained by Jedi Master Arca Jeth, Qel-Droma fought alongside the Beast Riders of Onderon against the Royal Family in order to banish Freedon Nadd's ghost. He succeeded in the endeavor, and learned of the Krath. He infiltrated the cult, but was eventually turned. As a warlord of the Krath, Ulic met and fought Exar Kun, a Dark Jedi. The duel ended in a draw, with the two of even lightsaber prowess. The two formed the Brotherhood of the Sith, and fought a war against the Republic and the Jedi that might've succeeded if Qel-Drom hadn't abandoned Kun and returned to the Jedi after he killed his brother Cay, and had his Force powers severed by Nomi Sunrider. Ulic was proficient in the Force and hand-to-hand combat. He was a voracious learner and powerful Sith sorcerer until his Force-connection was severed.

Conclusion: All Kun would have to do is destroy Sadow's meditation sphere, granting an easy win. That, or Kun could defeat Sadow in a duel while Ulic Qel-Droma took down Gav Daragon. Kun's forces are more diverse and have more differing talents that could render Sadow's tactics nearly-useless

Not to mention what could happen if Kun found out about Gav's sister....

that would possibly give Kun another powerful ally; one with knowledge about the location of Sadow's sphere.

Kun could extort Daragon by capturing his sister and torturin her until Gav joined Kun's forces

that would possibly give Kun another powerful ally; one with knowledge about the location of Sadow's sphere.

 

Kun could extort Daragon by capturing his sister and torturin her until Gav joined Kun's forces

While we are on apples and oranges.

Remeber Ludo Kressh? He was waiting to ambush Sadow when he returned to Korriban. How easy would it be for Exar Kun to sway Ludo and his power base to destroy his old rival? Kun was very charismatic as a leader, he swayed hords of jedi to betray their masters. Kun also cunningly disposed of disloyal "allies" by using them to deploy the super weapon at the cron cluster. Exar Kun showed his mastery of sith sorcery when he struted into the Senate Building durring Ulic's trial and force stunned the entire senate body. To further show his strength he cleverly defeated his previous jedi master- who himself was well know for his own martial prowess in single combat. In front of the entire senate, no less.

Exar Kun would have no problem manipulating Ludo Kressh to be his hound.

While we are on apples and oranges.

Remeber Ludo Kressh? He was waiting to ambush Sadow when he returned to Korriban. How easy would it be for Exar Kun to sway Ludo and his power base to destroy his old rival? Kun was very charismatic as a leader, he swayed hords of jedi to betray their masters. Kun also cunningly disposed of disloyal "allies" by using them to deploy the super weapon at the cron cluster. Exar Kun showed his mastery of sith sorcery when he struted into the Senate Building durring Ulic's trial and force stunned the entire senate body. To further show his strength he cleverly defeated his previous jedi master- who himself was well know for his own martial prowess in single combat. In front of the entire senate, no less.

Exar Kun would have no problem manipulating Ludo Kressh to be his hound.

Ludo Kressh doesn't technically exist in the kaggath, so this wouldn't work.

NOTE: Jori Daragon is excluded from this Kaggath.

Kun still would win for reasons listed earlier

Ha, since when are Kaggaths ever simple?

 

I agree though, Kun wins. The biggest and most obvious issue for Kun will be Sadow's army of illusions. The first part of the fight will be Kun getting put on the defensive as Sadow strikes first and hard, quickly punching holes in Kun's front lines and then, even after suffering massive casualties, his forces keep going. Kun will then grow curious as to how Sadow is reinforcing his troops so effectively. It won't take him long to realize the illusion at that point and Sadow's forces will fall apart as Kuns uses the knowledge to remove Sadow's greatest asset. Kun, just to illustrate his superiority, will 1v1 Sadow which will be the most lopsided part of this fight with Sadow losing his head (literally) or being overpowered by Kun's superior force strength.

 

If Sadow had even the slightest chance, it would be attacking so fast while Kun is near the front lines that he can encircle and just overwhelm Kun before his illusions are found out. Even then I find it unlikely. The allies will likely not play a part in this fight. They're more like battlefield generals and can't even hope to face either of the main combatants. As for fighting against each other, Ulic wins by superior training/experience giving another point to Kun.

 

Easiest match to call yet Beni, (even though I'm a huge Sadow fan), next!

Lol, no. These matches have never been so simple.

You paint an interesting scenario, however I don't think Kun would fight in the actual battle. He'll have Ulic lead the armies into battle and use his incredibly powerful Force Sense (and yes Beni he has done it before as I have noted before) to locate Naga Sadow.

The reason for this is because he will see Sadow as a threat to his reign as Dark Lord. Though Sadow poses no real threat, only his sorcery poses a threat. So Kun will attack the source of the illusions directly. The shock of the attack will disrupt Sadow's concentration, making the illusions disappear. Even if Sadow runs away, he just lost his effectiveness. The millions of soldiers at Kun's command will easily sweep the rest of Sadow's forces aside and Exar Kun will chase Naga Sadow aross the galaxy, knowing that the illusions are illusions.

Then Exar Kun quite easily defeats the ancient Sith Lord in a duel, cementing his reign as the true Dark Lord of the Sith.

however I don't think Kun would fight in the actual battle. He'll have Ulic lead the armies into battle and use his incredibly powerful Force Sense (and yes Beni he has done it before as I have noted before) to locate Naga Sadow.

I agree that Kun would not be doing the fighting, but I doubt he'd try and go straight to the source right away.

My scenario was that Sadow would hit first, fast, and hard like he did against the republic (gives the best possible chance for Sadow to win because we all know he needs it)

This would put Kun on the defensive and no smart sith is going to walk straight into a winning opponent's clutches without some kind of leverage or advantage beyond the supposition that he's better (that's a selfless jedi or stupid sith thing and Kun is as self serving and smart as they come) Kun will rather wait at the rear and things will proceed as I supposed.

Once Kun realizes the force illusions, he'll do exactly what you said (My wording was different but I was effectively saying exactly what you had said). Presto, dead Sadow.

Edit: my scenario for Sadow winning (near impossible) would necessitate Kun doing some kind of inspection of his troops in the border regions (like a general might) when Sadow hit.

I agree that Kun would not be doing the fighting, but I doubt he'd try and go straight to the source right away.

 

My scenario was that Sadow would hit first, fast, and hard like he did against the republic (gives the best possible chance for Sadow to win because we all know he needs it)

 

This would put Kun on the defensive and no smart sith is going to walk straight into a winning opponent's clutches without some kind of leverage or advantage beyond the supposition that he's better (that's a selfless jedi or stupid sith thing and Kun is as self serving and smart as they come) Kun will rather wait at the rear and things will proceed as I supposed.

 

Once Kun realizes the force illusions, he'll do exactly what you said (My wording was different but I was effectively saying exactly what you had said). Presto, dead Sadow.

 

Edit: my scenario for Sadow winning (near impossible) would necessitate Kun doing some kind of inspection of his troops in the border regions (like a general might) when Sadow hit.

I think you may be right. I highly doubt Sadow can actually win this. Kun has everything in his advantage. The only thing Naga Sadow has here is the limitless illusions, but that can be overcome. Remember that the Massassi Warriors are too dim-witted to be affected by Naga Sadow's mind tricks(they are too simple-minded to be affected by Battle Meditation, which is one of Sadow's tools to spread the illusions). So once the Krath and Mandalorians see the Massassi Warriors simply walk through the majority of Sadow's army, they will see that the army is just an illusion. Then Sadow's real army gets completely trashed by Kun's armies.

Then Kun fights Sadow one-on-one simply because he can. Game over.

I think you may be right. I highly doubt Sadow can actually win this. Kun has everything in his advantage. The only thing Naga Sadow has here is the limitless illusions, but that can be overcome. Remember that the Massassi Warriors are too dim-witted to be affected by Naga Sadow's mind tricks(they are too simple-minded to be affected by Battle Meditation, which is one of Sadow's tools to spread the illusions). So once the Krath and Mandalorians see the Massassi Warriors simply walk through the majority of Sadow's army, they will see that the army is just an illusion. Then Sadow's real army gets completely trashed by Kun's armies.

 

Then Kun fights Sadow one-on-one simply because he can. Game over.

Wow, that never hit me.

The idea of seeing this massive army coming and then watching your Massassi allies just walk right through it probably would cause the illusions to be far less effective. Now Sadow is aware of this so he might use his real army to crush the Massassi when he can and use the illusions against the others.

Edit: but I guess in a full scale war Sadow wont be able to keep up with ALL of Kun's Massassi and the word of Massassi walking through armies would spread to Kun who'd discover Sadow's illusions.

Do the illusions work on droids though? If not the Krath war droids will pose a massive problem for Sadow.

Apparently, even how Kun positions his troops in battle can make it impossible for Sadow.

Wow, that never hit me.

 

The idea of seeing this massive army coming and then watching your Massassi allies just walk right through it probably would cause the illusions to be far less effective. The only question is do you think Kun will release the Massassi first, or send his Mando shock troops in first? (if Mandos are used first then the Massassi angle isn't really helpful since most of the soldiers who'd benefit from the Massassi have been killed.)

 

Do the illusions work on droids? If not the Krath war droids will pose a massive problem for Sadow.

 

Apparently, even how Kun positions his troops in battle can make it impossible for Sadow.

I don't recall the Mandalorians working side by side with the Massassi Warriors. IIRC, they acted in a more mercenary manner. Ulic or Kun would point at a system and the Mando's would raze it. So the Mandalorians will probably fall prey to it, but they don't fear much, if anything.

The illusions are conjured from a number of things. Naga Sadow created them in such vast numbers due to his meditation sphere, battle meditation(a kind of battle meditation), Sith Sorcery, and ancient talismans. It's basically a massive mind trick, so the Krath War Droids(which probably outnumber Sadow's army) will not be affected.

Really, I would give Sadow a major advantage against most of the combatants, but Kun's army is just so superior to anything the ancient Sith Lord could conjure.

Couldn't Sadow just launch an attack on Yavin 4? It's how the Republic won the war.

They won the war by sealing Exar Kun's spirit on the planet. Had they launched an attack on Yavin IV when Kun's army was at the height of its power, the Republic would have lost. Not only that, but Yavin IV is the home base of the Massassi. Sadow's visions will prove useless.

YESSS!!!! I called the entire first round correctly!!! Like a boss!

Yeah! But that perfect record of yours will disappear in the semi-finals.

Edit: Beni, I don't know about the whole 'tri-battles' thing. You'll probably have to lay out the ground rules for what can and can't be done to eliminate speculation(as much as possible at least ). We don't want to see

"So and so will team up with this guy because the other guy is mean!'

"Oh yeah? Well maybe the guy won't be so mean and then so and so will join him!"

See what I mean? lol

Yeah! But that perfect record of yours will disappear in the semi-finals.

 

 

Edit: Beni, I don't know about the whole 'tri-battles' thing. You'll probably have to lay out the ground rules for what can and can't be done to eliminate speculation(as much as possible at least ). We don't want to see

 

"So and so will team up with this guy because the other guy is mean!'

"Oh yeah? Well maybe the guy won't be so mean and then so and so will join him!"

 

See what I mean? lol

Don't worry, Warren Stride pointed that out and alliances are banned. New ground rules have already been established.

Don't worry, Warren Stride pointed that out and alliances are banned. New ground rules have already been established.

Sounds good.

On a side note, I'm hoping for an underworld battle (G0-T0, Traya and Xizor).

Yeah! But that perfect record of yours will disappear in the semi-finals.

 

 

Edit: Beni, I don't know about the whole 'tri-battles' thing. You'll probably have to lay out the ground rules for what can and can't be done to eliminate speculation(as much as possible at least ). We don't want to see

 

"So and so will team up with this guy because the other guy is mean!'

"Oh yeah? Well maybe the guy won't be so mean and then so and so will join him!"

 

See what I mean? lol

You're probably right. The tri-battles are gonna be hard to call. I imagine I'll at least miss one of my guesses...

Sounds good.

 

On a side note, I'm hoping for an underworld battle (G0-T0, Traya and Xizor).

As much as I like that, please no. For the sake of G0-T0. Unless....