Hey fellow Juggs! I decided to make this thread to see what kind of numbers people are getting, please specify if its a Boss fight or a dummy parse. Also say if you used on-use relics, adrenals, or any other damage boosting item or ability. No bloodthirst please.

Forgot to put this in the first post but I hit about 1630ish on the dummy about 5 minutes ago. Used Rakata Adrenal, but nothing else. Almost full 61's but still a few mods and enhancements left, have ****** relics and still need to augment a few so it should go up a lot once I'm fully geared!

Hey man, since you asked me to pitch in here I will jump right in. With my on use dread power trinket and rakata adrenal (which are normal parts of my rotation), and fully optimized 63 gear I pull around 1880 dps over 10 mins on an ops dummy. That bursts up higher and lower depending on ravage procs and the duration of the fight. In actual ops and on fair fights that number generally goes up a bit.

Thanks for the input man! Which relics do you use?

I use the dread guard relic of elemental transcendence and the dread guard relic of boundless ages. With the passive power on the new boundless ages trinket it works out to be better than the elite war hero passive power trinket.

I was thinking if making a similar thread but gathering the expected numbers per gear tier to help people feel out how they should be damaging.

 

As for myself:

Mainly all 61's

2029 str

785 pwr

 

Dummy parse unbuffed 5 minute fight:

1658 dps

 

Dummy parse on opening 30 seconds:

2280 dps with clicky relic

Over the course of the next 4 minutes, it decays to 1800 with persistent click relic use. Any longer and it falls back to the 1600 mark.

Using pwr and ele relic, DG.

 

I test using MOX, I could try another program to see if the numbers add up. Also, if we are fighting groups, mox does count aoe damage, which lends huge spikes.

 

If you guys have other programs that are more accurate, share them here so we can have a good sample pool.

Its kinda hard to say if your numbers are good or bad if we dont know your spec and stats

 

I am around half DG half Campaign and i am using this spec: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcGMRMuddhRZrM.2

Crit/Surge 36/78 Acc 100% for melee ofc

 

On the Operation Dummy i get between 1800 and 1650 over a 6 minute fight, depending on Ravage procs. Compared to other classes this might seem a bit weak, but it depends how you play it. In TFB HM i am usually among the highest in our raid because of the movement required for most fights there. On static fights Mercs and Snipers will be hard to beat.

Last nights HM TFB.

 

Writhering Horror 1459.9 No adrenal use, on use DG power relic and exotech stim

Dread Guard 1333.1 Same as above, with about 30 seconds down time waiting on a bat rez.

 

My gear is all 61s with a 63 hilt, two 63 might armorings, one 63 mod and one 63 enhancement.

I have a Jugg with ~400 power and ~2400 strength, I pop my 350 power relic and 475 (rakata) adrenal right after I charge in, follow with impale > scream > ravage, also a note; I get a fair amount of added DPS by interceding to a healer or rDPS and leaping back in, allowing me to force scream again for no rage.

 

I also finish strong by TRYING to save both my adrenal and power relic until the end, where I begin to charge > impale > scream > vicious throw

 

I haven't parsed in a loong time (pre TfB), but I'll get on a dummy tonight and give you guys numbers.

Thats all fair and good using your CDs (relics, adrenals etc), but if i would do at the start of a fight that i will always pull threat off the tanks. You dont wanna do that

 

I wouldnt Intercede to players if i can avoid it or it is necessary to reduce their threat, because its wasting a GCD. It should be possible running out while using saber throw or force scream and charge back in. This will generate rage and a free Scream.

I have a Jugg with ~400 power and ~2400 strength, I pop my 350 power relic and 475 (rakata) adrenal right after I charge in, follow with impale > scream > ravage, also a note; I get a fair amount of added DPS by interceding to a healer or rDPS and leaping back in, allowing me to force scream again for no rage.

 

I also finish strong by TRYING to save both my adrenal and power relic until the end, where I begin to charge > impale > scream > vicious throw

 

I haven't parsed in a loong time (pre TfB), but I'll get on a dummy tonight and give you guys numbers.

 

That doesnt sound very optimal for dps. Savagery basically gives u either auto crit scream or vicious throw, and i believe throw would be better. Also when u first jump in and impale u could proc ur ravage thus wasting a ravage.

 

Correct me if im wrong, but is there a new rotation that im not aware of, haven't seen any good guides lately...

Edited February 7, 2013 by RjuDju

That doesnt sound very optimal for dps. Savagery basically gives u either auto crit scream or vicious throw, and i believe throw would be better. Also when u first jump in and impale u could proc ur ravage thus wasting a ravage.

 

Correct me if im wrong, but is there a new rotation that im not aware of, haven't seen any good guides lately...

 

Sorry I forgot to add that, I do indeed ravage off the bad, stupid me and trying to type at school.

 

Also any fight that I'm using this front-heavy rotation, I usually make sure that I'm guarded, give the tank a few seconds, and use my thread dump a few hits in, if someone else needs to be guarded, I'll let the tank steadily grab aggro, and use my adrenal and power relic at separate times.... also depends on the fight for me, as I've dropped HM Toth down to his 90% in less than five seconds before.

Meh tanks can taunt back. I open up with full cooldowns and burst rotation on my powertech and rarely pull threat. Even if I do pull its easy for them to taunt back without taking too much damage. (Guard but no threat dump) Edited February 7, 2013 by OlosBC

Meh tanks can taunt back. I open up with full cooldowns and burst rotation on my powertech and rarely pull threat. Even if I do pull its easy for them to taunt back without taking too much damage. (Guard but no threat dump)

 

Yeah but the big thing is that I like my tanks to have complete and utter control of something... last thing I need is to pull off during double destruction or when Toth goes into his frenzy, etc.

Yeah but the big thing is that I like my tanks to have complete and utter control of something... last thing I need is to pull off during double destruction or when Toth goes into his frenzy, etc.

 

During Double destruction is a fine time to pull threat. You just don't want to AFTER double d, and your tank should be throwing a taunt during/after double anyway.

 

Tooth frenzy happens right after a swap. Your tank would have to literally stop doing anything to lose threat there.

 

Writhing horror sucks to pull threat on, but its still not an issue if tank taunts immediately.

 

Other than writhing horror, on most fights pulling threat is not a catastrophe OR the tanks get a head start. I'm always ready with bubble on the ptech tho, or saber ward/enure on my focus guardian.

Ugh Focus Guardian... i feel dirty now.

 

Well anyways its a super silly statement that "the tank can always taunt back". Aggro management is as much a part of good dps as is dealing damage. On Juggies especially, you never wanna pull threat, cause you dont want to spend 4 wasted Rage on the deaggro abilitiy. I mean fine if you raid SMs it really doesnt matter, but pulling threat in a HM/NMM raid can screw you and your raid real quick.

 

Anyways, i would always wait for a couple seconds for the tanks to get firm aggro before pulling CDs - not slowing your rotation. If you do pull threat through your initial burst, just wait for like one or two GCDs before jumping in.

/shrug

 

Get better tanks or work with your tanks to get better.

 

It is the job of a tank to hold agro such that they allow a DPS to do their job at full throttle. SWTOR taunt mechanics make this quite easy (though a bit harder for juggs than pt's or sins).

 

Oh and I forgot, one place where it actually is beneficial to hold off just a bit: droids in NiM vorgath, simply because a pull and knock back can kill the entire raid. Even there I just go slow for a couple gcd's with my tanks though.

Edited February 8, 2013 by OlosBC

Tanks should have their largest dps/threat builders bubbled to gain that threat. I never really pull aggro off of our jugg tank but I can take it from our sin tank from time to time.

What are your guys' rotation? Mine goes like:

 

Opening: Saber throw, Leap, Ravage

Ravage: Sunder, Ravage

Bleed: Sunder, Shatter, Impale

Filler: Sunder. Assault, Scream

Rage Recovery: Sunder, Saber throw, Smash

If Enrage is up, use it.

 

Start off with Opening and then go to bleed, if ravage procs do ravage rotation, if not I do filler. If I get 6 rage or below I enrage or if that's on cd I do rage recovery.

A set rotation is less than ideal, especially if it involves Assault.

 

Your opener is fine, except that i use a Sunder before Ravage on bossfights, to give the tank a bit of leeway and build up enough Rage for several rotations (with Enrage).

If you are comfortable with the class use a priority system rather than a rotation. for me it looks like:

 

Vicious Throw with Savagery

Ravage

Shatter (let the dot run out first)

Impale

Force Scream with Savagery

Smash (i use it as a filler if everything else is on CD)

 

for builders only use Sunder and Saber Throw, avoid Assault unless EVERYTHING is on CD. I dont use Enrage on CD as some guides say, but use it when i am running low on rage instead to avoid having to use Assault. If at all possible try and put some distance between target and you (while using Scream or Throw for example) and then use Charge. This is especially great for rage gen if you picked Battle Cry from the tanking tree ofc.

So, think I've gotten a hang on the priorty-part. But stats, ermahgerd! Of course, strength is king, and I'm aiming for 100% accuracy on melee. But what about crit? Tried out with 32.5%ish melee crit, increased it too 35.something%, but didn't see any immediate big difference in dps. Any thoughts?

So, think I've gotten a hang on the priorty-part. But stats, ermahgerd! Of course, strength is king, and I'm aiming for 100% accuracy on melee. But what about crit? Tried out with 32.5%ish melee crit, increased it too 35.something%, but didn't see any immediate big difference in dps. Any thoughts?

 

For every pve dps, crit rating should be between 130-300. Anything in between will put out virtually the same dps. If you want more RNG and a higher variance in your damage output, lean more towards 300 crit. If you want less RNG and lower variance in your damage output, lean more towards 130 crit.

I usually do a rotation based on 4.5sec modules, each one being:

RAVAGE:

Sunder

Ravage

RAGE SPENDING:

Sunder

Shatter

Impale

RAGE BUILDING:

Sunder

Saber throw

Smash

FILLER:

Sunder

Scream

FILLER

 

I could, in theory, indefinately do ravage then rage spender, but thats unlikely. The next in priority is doing filler. I find that while this rotation is extremely strucured, it doesn't do great dps because Scream won't be on cd a lot.

Insert scream after impale...keep it on CD

 

Priority should be something like this:

 

Ravage

Savagery Vicious Throw

Force Scream (with or w/o Savagery)

Impale

Shatter

Smash