Any comments on which relic would be better for a MM Sniper? I assume both cannot be used at the same time because they have similar functions.

Dark Energy Surge http://www.torhead.com/item/dDStgBn/dark-energy-surge

"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 168 additional internal damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects."

Energy Surge Device http://www.torhead.com/item/6zN0SeL/energy-surge-device

"Equip: Damaging attacks have a 30% chance to deal 224 additional energy damage to the target. This effect can only occur once every 4.5 seconds, and shares this limit with similar damage-dealing effects."

It depends on whether you are debuffing the armor enough or not. If you have 3 or more sources of a 20% armor debuff then utilize the energy/kinetic damage variety. Otherwise use the internal/elemental damage.

Edit: Tibbel has pointed out that it is 2 or more sources of a 20% armor debuff, not 3.

would the internal damage apply to cull, i wonder? cause technically the corrosive grenade and dart are internal damage which is posions? right?

Cull's damage won't be increased due to the proc dealing the damage only once and not being an actual DoT (which is where the extra damage comes from).

Cull's damage won't be increased due to the proc dealing the damage only once and not being an actual DoT (which is where the extra damage comes from).

oh for some reason i thought it was a dot woops!!

It depends on whether you are debuffing the armor enough or not. If you have 3 or more sources of a 20% armor debuff then utilize the energy/kinetic damage variety. Otherwise use the internal/elemental damage.

Ops bosses have 35% armor. (source)

That's an armor rating of 5815. (from formula: source)

Base armor rating 5815 = 35.00% mitigation --> 224 × 0.6500 = 145.6 damage per proc

- 1 × 20% debuff = 4652 = 30.11% mitigation --> 224 × 0.6989 = 156.6 damage per proc

- 2 × 20% debuff = 3489 = 24.42% mitigation --> 224 × 0.7558 = 169.3 damage per proc

- 3 × 20% debuff = 2362 = 17.95% mitigation --> 224 × 0.8205 = 183.8 damage per proc

It's pretty close either way, but to be precise, the 224 kinetic damage proc is stronger than the 168 internal damage proc if you have 2 or more 20% armor debuffs on the boss.

(As an aside, note how the first 20% reduction in armor increases kinetic/energy damage by 7.55%, whereas the third increases kinetic/energy damage by 8.56%. That's the nature of linear reductions to a stat with diminishing returns -- exponential scaling of armor penetration.)

What are the other classes that can debuff armor?

Snipers can use Shatter Shot for 20% debuff.

Others?

I didn't realize that the armor debuffs stacked.

It's pretty close either way, but to be precise, the 224 kinetic damage proc is stronger than the 168 internal damage proc if you have 2 or more 20% armor debuffs on the boss.

Thank you very much for the correction.

I can say offhand I know that at the very least Tracer Missile stacks up to applying an Armor Debuff. There are more sources then that and Shatter Shot, though.

What are the other classes that can debuff armor?

 

Snipers can use Shatter Shot for 20% debuff.

 

Others?

 

I didn't realize that the armor debuffs stacked.

Mercs and Juggs are the other 2 that I know of. We don't run with Sins very often and I never noticed them putting up a debuff for armor.

Mercs and Juggs are the other 2 that I know of. We don't run with Sins very often and I never noticed them putting up a debuff for armor.

Yeah, Juggernauts (Guardians) of any spec or Arsenal Mercenaries (Gunnery Commandos) can apply stacking armor debuffs.

Both of those specs' debuffs give 4% armor reduction per stack, up to 5 stacks (so 20% total). Our Shatter Shot (Flourish Shot for smugglers) gives a full 20% in one application, and after patch 1.2, 20% reduced healing taken (for 9s).

Is it worth using 2 damage 30% proc Relics or Having 1 Matrix cube and 1 Damage proc relic?

I was curious because I know they can't be going off at the same time but I figured if one didn't go off that the other has a chance to. What do you guys think?

Is it worth using 2 damage 30% proc Relics or Having 1 Matrix cube and 1 Damage proc relic?

 

I was curious because I know they can't be going off at the same time but I figured if one didn't go off that the other has a chance to. What do you guys think?

It's probably best to use the Matrix Cube along with one of the proc relics.

The Matrix Cube competes with the Rakata-level relics anyway, so that should probably be your choice to avoid the interfering internal cooldowns of using two proc relics.