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PUGs UNITE!!!


Briggs_Knightly

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yes, but when such little effort is required to move your skill level from bad to good, its always funny when people whine for bioware to nerf the competition.

Eh... getting a premade requires less effort than learning to work with new people each time, tbh.

 

That said, few pugs ever do, sadly.

 

 

It's not about nerfing competition, tbh. It's more about separating levels of competition. I don't see how it's bad. Real premades want to compete against other premades. Pugs want to compete with pugs. Why not let them? That said, proper matchmaking to me is a preferred solution over queue splitting.

 

 

Also, premade doesn't really boost skill. It boosts organization. Those aren't the same in my book.

Edited by Helig
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Split queues also won't stop the well geared and highly skilled players from rolling all over the undergeared and under skilled players.

 

Smarter matchmaking though just might do that, and can better control overall queue times without making them flat out unbearable. Which is what I support.

 

This is win, I don't think people remember the mass exodus that followed after the original exodus of people. When the game released a lot of people didn't find what they were looking for, so they un-subbed immediately.

 

So what happened was many servers were super unpopulated (as my original server, the deadweight)

WZ's started to take a bit longer, about 5-15 minutes or so.

After a couple of weeks, pops would take between 20-30 minutes during prime-time. This caused people to quit in even bigger numbers.

During the last 2 or so months the server was around, it would take up to an hour to get a game, if you were lucky, during primetime.

 

People don't see that the only reason the ques are instant is because they are 10-49. and 50. When ques start taking 5 minutes, people will stop playing, then they will start taking 10 minutes, more will stop... this will continue until pvp is dead.

 

I support a better matchmaking system, if they implement cross server ques. If they don't I don't want there to be a chance that that **** will happen again, because if it ever gets remotely close to how it was on my server at release, I wont be waiting around months to see how they will fix it again...

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This is win, I don't think people remember the mass exodus that followed after the original exodus of people. When the game released a lot of people didn't find what they were looking for, so they un-subbed immediately.

 

So what happened was many servers were super unpopulated (as my original server, the deadweight)

WZ's started to take a bit longer, about 5-15 minutes or so.

After a couple of weeks, pops would take between 20-30 minutes during prime-time. This caused people to quit in even bigger numbers.

During the last 2 or so months the server was around, it would take up to an hour to get a game, if you were lucky, during primetime.

 

People don't see that the only reason the ques are instant is because they are 10-49. and 50. When ques start taking 5 minutes, people will stop playing, then they will start taking 10 minutes, more will stop... this will continue until pvp is dead.

 

I support a better matchmaking system, if they implement cross server ques. If they don't I don't want there to be a chance that that **** will happen again, because if it ever gets remotely close to how it was on my server at release, I wont be waiting around months to see how they will fix it again...

 

This man makes a lot of sense.

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EA needs to LISTEN to us... or LOSE us.

 

I do not want to keep people who enjoy playing as a group from doing so. It is understandable that some people really like the social aspect of playing with the same people time after time after time. The whole ranked WZ platform is based on this. There needs to be an option for these guys to continue Qing for team based PVP.

 

However, There are many people, like me, who just want to jump in and PVP with random people. I enjoy the constantly varried groupings and the different strategies that must be deployed based on who you have.

 

EA has failed us miserably.

 

We have asked nicely long enough and it is now time to DEMAND an option for us to play this game the way we want to.

 

We pay just as much to play this game as the premade guys do and we no longer want to play this game at a DISADVANTAGE. The premade guys get on vent, mumble or some other communication form and get to coordinate better. THAT GIVES THEM AN ADVANTAGE. I do not want to hear any arguments that it doesn't give them one because you would just be silly. I also do NOT want to hear anyone say that I CAN do that as well. I do NOT want to play in a premade group.

 

I am not sure how many people have quit this game because they were tired of getting rolled by premade groups but it is more than EA wants to admitt. The thought that they would some day give us the option of playing the way we want is fading. We no longer BELIEVE that you LOSERS at EA who decide the future of this game care about us. More people will quit because of this ignorance by the developers. This will be a trickle over time and will continue to go unreported UNLESS we stand together.

 

The people who are still here obviously want to stay in this game but we NEED to be heard. My proposal is to set a date long enough in the future that EA has to time to incorporate a premade-free PVP option but not so far out that we lose determination. My date is "Independence Day". If EA does not give us what we want by July 4th... we should all cancel our accounts.

 

I'm pretty sure the devs attributed the game's attrition to "teams of stun locking operatives".

 

I think it's clear that they have not nerfed operatives enough.

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This thread is a joke right?

 

I don't want to mouse turn, make a queue where you have to keyboard turn please. Those mouse turners have an advantage.

 

I don't want to keybind, make a queue where you have to click your abilities please. Keybinders have an advantage.

 

I don't want to buy stims, make a queue where you can't use stims please. People who use stims have an advantage.

 

This is pretty much what I'm hearing from you. I don't WANT to do something, so take it away from everyone else. If you feel it's such an advantage then you should be doing it.

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This thread is a joke right?

 

I don't want to mouse turn, make a queue where you have to keyboard turn please. Those mouse turners have an advantage.

 

I don't want to keybind, make a queue where you have to click your abilities please. Keybinders have an advantage.

 

I don't want to buy stims, make a queue where you can't use stims please. People who use stims have an advantage.

 

This is pretty much what I'm hearing from you. I don't WANT to do something, so take it away from everyone else. If you feel it's such an advantage then you should be doing it.

 

The strawman and slippery slope arguments are getting old. The OP is simply asking for a way to queue solo into a WZ where all other people pressed the solo queue button too. Sure people could sync queues, but i think all of the people wanting his feature would happily take that risk. He is not trying to take anything away from you (other than 8 man randoms to dominate), so why are people so darn defensive about this? In the evening I queue with my guild mates. When I'm at lunch I just want to solo queue quickly for as many PvP matches I can get in during my hour lunch.

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An interesting issue, one I have seen time and time again while increasing the amount of PvP I am doing. I am in a guild who do like to PvP but often when I am online they arean't therefore no pre-mades. So a lot of the time I pug. I can spot groups who do this thing together, the way in which they team up.

 

But the queuing, though you can queue Solo and as a Group, but it should be based on a few preferences when it comes to new WZ being created.

 

  1. Are there 2 groups from this faction to fill 8
  2. If there isn't are there smaller groups (3 or 2s that can fill the gaps)
  3. Add solos into the remaining slots to make up 8.

 

Then when a WZ is being created another check is done

 

  1. Are there 8 Solos on this faction to form a team.
  2. if not, then are there smaller groups to fill the gaps needed (2 or 3 man groups)

 

 

It is more of an issue playing against pre-made groups than playing with them. But it isn't broken but needs some tweaking. There is a few things about PvP that needs tweaking, but I am unsure of the numbers playing at anyone time, and a lot of these tweaks are easy if the numbers are high, lower ones will have people waiting in queues for a while to be filled.

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The strawman and slippery slope arguments are getting old. The OP is simply asking for a way to queue solo into a WZ where all other people pressed the solo queue button too. Sure people could sync queues, but i think all of the people wanting his feature would happily take that risk. He is not trying to take anything away from you (other than 8 man randoms to dominate), so why are people so darn defensive about this? In the evening I queue with my guild mates. When I'm at lunch I just want to solo queue quickly for as many PvP matches I can get in during my hour lunch.

 

apparently you haven't read anything other than that most people don't want this, but if you read WHY, maybe you can understand... Everyone is afraid bioware is going to be as dumb as the people complaining and literally just add a "solo que" button. That will not fix that some teams will be stacked and some wont.

The OP will still be crying that he gets his **** kicked in, he is obviously not a hardcore gamer and will lose a lot (which is fine).

This "solo que" button some people so desperately want will only increase timers on wz pops, which during primetime on most servers this will probably not START as an issue. People will have longer que times, get frustrated and quit.

People that are bad will still get rolled, and not even be able to blame it on the premades.

The game could use a better matchmaking system, where you get matched up against people or groups that are around your same skill level. Even this would only work if they implemented cross server ques. I'm not sure if you were here for release, but people will not deal with long que times (which some feel 5m is long)

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EA needs to LISTEN to us... or LOSE us.

 

I do not want to keep people who enjoy playing as a group from doing so. It is understandable that some people really like the social aspect of playing with the same people time after time after time. The whole ranked WZ platform is based on this. There needs to be an option for these guys to continue Qing for team based PVP.

 

However, There are many people, like me, who just want to jump in and PVP with random people. I enjoy the constantly varried groupings and the different strategies that must be deployed based on who you have.

 

EA has failed us miserably.

 

We have asked nicely long enough and it is now time to DEMAND an option for us to play this game the way we want to.

 

We pay just as much to play this game as the premade guys do and we no longer want to play this game at a DISADVANTAGE. The premade guys get on vent, mumble or some other communication form and get to coordinate better. THAT GIVES THEM AN ADVANTAGE. I do not want to hear any arguments that it doesn't give them one because you would just be silly. I also do NOT want to hear anyone say that I CAN do that as well. I do NOT want to play in a premade group.

 

I am not sure how many people have quit this game because they were tired of getting rolled by premade groups but it is more than EA wants to admitt. The thought that they would some day give us the option of playing the way we want is fading. We no longer BELIEVE that you LOSERS at EA who decide the future of this game care about us. More people will quit because of this ignorance by the developers. This will be a trickle over time and will continue to go unreported UNLESS we stand together.

 

The people who are still here obviously want to stay in this game but we NEED to be heard. My proposal is to set a date long enough in the future that EA has to time to incorporate a premade-free PVP option but not so far out that we lose determination. My date is "Independence Day". If EA does not give us what we want by July 4th... we should all cancel our accounts.

 

Hey bro, go buy a console and some single player games. Warzones are "team" based gameplay. That means, you play as a team. Most solo quers don't do that. If anything, you are runing others experience by quing up with your 14k HP chasing after everything that is red in a warzone and not even worrying about the objectives. Lets all be honest here, how many pugs have made you lose vs. how many premades have made you lose? I know, I know... Some premades suck; however, I would take most premades on my team than pugs anyday of the week. If you want to do single player pvp, then go out into the open world and pvp people who are flagged. Or as I said before, go buy a console and do some single player games till your heart is content.

 

Who do you think is going to last longer in a game and pay for subs longer? People who play solo play and que solo for warzone, or a person who plays with a guild wand ques for warzones with their guild? Sure I could always use the que finder for stuff, but you really think a group of pugs is going to clear something like EC nightmare.... NO! This game and most other mmos are ment to be played as a "team". You can't even do probably half the stuff most MMOs offer unless you orgainze your groups.

 

Again, warzones are "team" based, not "me" based.

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I can't believe this is a thread.

 

The entire argument "give us what we want or we quit" is the highest level of illogicality ever , as if this person speaks for a significant group of anyone. (Besides bads).

 

Ugly and several others have tried, with far more patience than I would have , to drive two simple points into your brains, which you continually resist.

 

1) What you want (a queue of people who are not in a group) will not solve your problem in any way, shape or form without better matchmaking. You will still get rolled , by people better than you. You will still be trounced, by people who know their class when you do not. You will not even get occasional wins by having a premade on your side. Then you will come here and complain again. Taking premades out of the mix only ensures that whatever side has the most experienced 50's in the best gear wins. Period. End of story. That's no better than what you have now. In fact it will be worse -- the people who LIKE beating up on pugs in BiS gear and years of experience will solo que and there won't even be premades to slow these people down.

 

2) There's no fun in beating on pugs when you have everything you need and are in BiS gear. At that point you want a challenge. PUGS think premades like beating up on them because PUGS don't get the idea of a challenge. But in the system you describe, premades are punished with long queue times to make up for your lack of ability. In other words, the people derping around get nothing, and the people who play the game right get nothing.

 

You want a solo que? It should be pure deathmatch, I've soloed this week just to see and most pugs are incapable of even following simple instructions or basic teamwork. A solo queue for objective based maps is just going to be a derp-farm of medal farming , mixed with the people who like killing pugs who solo group.

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I've come to realize the even if BW created a matchmaking system, everyone would complain because the queue doesn't pop. Why? If you need 2 healers and 2 tanks and 4 dps, you'd have a hard time getting that mix on both sides when everyone is rolling a FotM.

 

To those that argue that pugs need to get into a group, I say you are missing the point because every time you queue solo, there are 7 other players on your team. Sometimes you get a decent group that can actually work together enough to get the job done and sometimes you get the newer and/or bad players.

 

I also saw some say that we should use the tools available. The only tools BW included with the game obviously don't cut it. However, the 3rd party tools that are being used by the not-so casual pvpr do give advantage that isn't provided by the game makers. A next gen game should have included voice com, just like some of the newer mmos released before swtor where development started after BW chose to use the hero engine.

 

Yes, there are third party tools that can be used, but the random grouping makes things more exciting when it takes more of an effort to grow into the team you queue with. It's no different the the "awesome" group finder, but you still have to operate as a team to complete some of them. Just ask those in the pvp forum that have announced their boredom with same-ole same-ole WZs and stomping pugs. Ask them if they would choose to pug to break up the monotony, my guess is that they would say no. A hard earned win is a heck of a lot more gratifying than the 3cap, 6score huttball runs that finish before anyone can blink.

Edited by iSoldat
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I don't get why the OP is waiting so long to quit. It's not like there aren't a lot of other choices. If you get into a wz facing a premade, just quit. I can tell in 30 seconds if I am facing an organized premade. Just AFK out. Better yet, just quit STWOR randoms and pvp in a game that doesn't have all the crazy imbalances. Or make the cheesiness of premades rollin pugs work for ya. Find some people that like doin that sort of thing and become "friends" and start facerollin them pugs. And don't forget to tell your new friends how them pugs deserve to get creamed because they are "bads". They like that stuff.
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EA needs to LISTEN to us... or LOSE us.

 

goodbye and good riddance. stop ruining my warzones.

 

you refuse to play as a group, then complain that groups are beating you, and somehow this is a fail on EA's part. what?

Edited by Arlanon
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I don't get why the OP is waiting so long to quit. It's not like there aren't a lot of other choices. If you get into a wz facing a premade, just quit. I can tell in 30 seconds if I am facing an organized premade. Just AFK out. Better yet, just quit STWOR randoms and pvp in a game that doesn't have all the crazy imbalances. Or make the cheesiness of premades rollin pugs work for ya. Find some people that like doin that sort of thing and become "friends" and start facerollin them pugs. And don't forget to tell your new friends how them pugs deserve to get creamed because they are "bads". They like that stuff.

 

I think a lot of the PUGs are masochists. They get joy from getting constantly humiliated and destroyed.

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while i agree with you that premades should be seperate from the pugs but right now its not viable because:

 

1. BW will not or cannot instill a cross server pvp que.

2. who wants to sit around for 2+ hours in que for rateds because there is not enough on the server queing for them.

3. most good players get bored steamrolling pugs so the only ones that do it on a constant basis are the ones that want easy wins.

4. the devs dont seem to put pvp as a priority so any agressive changes will take along time if at all.

 

I will not be quiting this game i love the story and i like star wars, the only strong issue i have with this game is with the resolve changes that happened in patch 1.4

 

 

This 100x

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Look guys, I Pug ALL of my warzones. I play a commando healer class, which is a tough class to pug. Now I have been in pre-mades before the server merge, but after the merge, I pug now. I have been on both sides of the fence. There is NOTHING wrong with pre-mades. Queuing with friends needs to be encouraged. Pugging by yourself will have repercussions. Not to mention, just because you are against a pre-mades doesn't make it an automatic lost. People will always find something to complain about. You really need to reflect on yourself and come to the conclusion you aren't a god at MMOs like you want to believe. :rak_04::rak_03::rak_01:
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You are just silly. Can you not read...

 

I do not want to play IN a premade. I said so above.

 

I enjoy playing with and against different people all the time.

There were a whole lot of people like me.

Now there are fewer and soon will be none unless EA does something to keep us interested.

 

Would you cut it out with the "us" there is no us, me and other people are ok, only problem im seeing at this time is you.

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I can't believe this is a thread.

 

The entire argument "give us what we want or we quit" is the highest level of illogicality ever , as if this person speaks for a significant group of anyone. (Besides bads).

 

Ugly and several others have tried, with far more patience than I would have , to drive two simple points into your brains, which you continually resist.

 

1) What you want (a queue of people who are not in a group) will not solve your problem in any way, shape or form without better matchmaking. You will still get rolled , by people better than you. You will still be trounced, by people who know their class when you do not. You will not even get occasional wins by having a premade on your side. Then you will come here and complain again. Taking premades out of the mix only ensures that whatever side has the most experienced 50's in the best gear wins. Period. End of story. That's no better than what you have now. In fact it will be worse -- the people who LIKE beating up on pugs in BiS gear and years of experience will solo que and there won't even be premades to slow these people down.

 

2) There's no fun in beating on pugs when you have everything you need and are in BiS gear. At that point you want a challenge. PUGS think premades like beating up on them because PUGS don't get the idea of a challenge. But in the system you describe, premades are punished with long queue times to make up for your lack of ability. In other words, the people derping around get nothing, and the people who play the game right get nothing.

 

You want a solo que? It should be pure deathmatch, I've soloed this week just to see and most pugs are incapable of even following simple instructions or basic teamwork. A solo queue for objective based maps is just going to be a derp-farm of medal farming , mixed with the people who like killing pugs who solo group.

 

1. It wont solve it but it will make it much, much better for PUGs. What you and so many others don't understand is the fact that players that like to PUG are not bothered by getting killed by better players. There will always be better players and I think we all can agree on that. The fact that bothers us is getting stomped by a team of players who have nothing else to do, continuously. They have and will play much, much more than we have or will. That's the reason they are called hardcore and we are called casual players. Our understanding of the word "play" differs.

 

2. Than why do you keep playing in a pre-made? Maybe to farm comms for grade 8 stuff? Or do you simply like owning others?

 

I am amazed how much win/lose attitude there is among players. Maybe that is just a personality thing and you gals and guys actually don't know any better. Bet let's try ... having fun in playing is (or should be) the most important thing in playing! Not winning or losing. Sure, winning gets you a nice feeling and more comms, but is that all you care about? Is having your face planted in the behind of your buddy all the time, really the only thing you enjoy?

I've tried premade group and while it can be fun while you learn the composition and team play, it can become like a work with the attitude it usually brings. It's the "we must win" mentality that has made me quit two premade groups so far. It's just too much like work and obsession. But this is just my experience, and it doesn't represent any other, of course.

PUGs bring some chaos and unpredictability into "been there, done that" constant, repeating WZs. They are a group of players, just like a premade so please stop with this "its an MMO so premade is the only way to go" mentality and try to understand that separating yourselves and us is going to help you as well. You will not longer have to compete against bad teams. Unless that is the way you get wet (or hard depending on your sex) of course. You will no longer have to play unchallenging WZs. You will not longer have to play against people that just don't understand how the game is supposed to be played right (I really don't understand where you get he idea that playing in a premade is playing the game right).

 

If the only way of playing WZs for you is premade, please feel free to do that. But allow us the same freedom to have an option to play the way we want it. In a crazy, unpredictable and chaos filled world that is called PUG.

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  • 2 weeks later...
This is not going away...

 

The rate at which people are quitting WZs is rising dramatically.

The rate at which paying customers will leave will soon mirrow this trait.

 

WZ PVP is not getting better... it is getting worse.

 

Almost all PVP matches are now heavily lopsided.

 

EA has failed

 

The matches are lopsided because the players suck. The overall quality of PvPers has gone down drastically, since the release of F2P. To anyone who is complaining about premades, this is coming from the King of Pugs, games are won off of individual skill, not 4 people of the same guild. This game comes down to individual skill, and people need to realize they aren't as good as the think.

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"bioware, they beat me! i want to win! make it so i dont have to play against good players anymore!"

 

:rolleyes:

Yea kick the guy while he is down!... Guessing your one of those that rolfstomp people in your little school of Premadonna's.. You guys normally pray on the weak
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I've had this type of discussion a million times, in far far too many different games.

 

There's usually two sides to the discussion:

 

A)The PuGers, who are tired of having less fun because of premades causing one-sided games.

 

B)The premade players, who always make the argument: "You should join a premade, yourself, instead of complaining." Just a side note about these players - Typically, they are people who lack the balls to play alone, and rely on team so that they can have easier wins. Of course, they will tell you that they do it because they want to play with friends; but the reality is that they would never be caught dead outside of a premade.

 

I am all for players being able to play with friends. I do it often myself. But I ALSO enjoy solo queuing, because I am a casual gamer.

 

What it really comes down to, is that the argument group B typically uses, trying to say that PuGs should simply join a premade, themselves, is flawed. Why? Because that solution would FORCE those of group A to play the game in a way they do not want to. Of course, then many of group B will respond by saying that it's the way the game was "meant" to be played, because it is an MMO, which by nature means that you are supposed to play with others. Then I would respond by pointing out that players that solo queue, are actually IN FACT playing with others, by doing so. They are simply using the system to find a group for them, rather than having to find the time and make the commitments to form or join their own.

 

Those of group A have a valid gripe, because their game play is being negatively impacted by those of group B! Yet the opposite can not be said about group B. In fact, group B basically depends on group A, in the games current state! But group A actually in no way depends on group B. If there was a solo only queue, WZ queues would be just fine, and PuGs would be quite happy.

 

The solution? That's the tough part!

 

The problem with having a solo only queue, is that those in a premade must then join a premade only queue. And if there's one thing premades are good at doing, it's shooting themselves in the foot! Typically a small number of (or even one) elitist groups will dominate the server, and go to great lengths to stomp out any competition (Granted, some servers are getting wise and actually trying to breed more competition rather than just trying to crush all opposing teams, but this is still limited.). This is actually an effect I have seen in many MMO's, not just this one.

 

As another side note: I love the irony of how those of group B, tell those of group A that they need to simply join a premade themselves - Yet if they actually DID, we'd see the eventual outcome of what I described in the paragraph above. Premade players can say all they want about PuGers, but the absolute truth, is that whether they know it or not, they actually depend on them. Without PuGers, WZ's would slowly but surely die off.

 

In my personal opinion, there is one compromise that I feel works in everyone's best interests. Each WZ team should have one premade "slot." You would be required to have a team of 4, to join the queue as a premade team. In order for you, as a premade group, to be placed into a game by the system, there would need to be another premade of 4 in the queue, that would be placed in the opposing team's "slot." So if there were 16 solo queuers, and only one premade group, queued, then the system would start a game with the 16 solo players, and the 4 in the premade would have to wait until another premade queues. To make up for this disparity, when there are 2 premades queued, they are put at the top of the queue, above the soloers.

 

Of course, this type of system would still allow for one-sided games due to one premade being vastly superior to the other. But the very same thing could happen in a solo only queue, if one team gets too many bad players. There's no eliminating this type of thing completely, but it would be minimized.

 

The main downside, would be that you couldn't queue as a group of 3 or less. Like I said, it's a compromise. Solo queuers, would rather have solo only queue, so they would be compromising as well. But overall, this compromise would balance things greatly, since it wouldn't allow for one team to have a premade, and the other to not have one. It would also not allow a team to have more than one premade.

 

Also, if you wanted to queue as a group less than 4, the system should at least insure that your entire group is in the same game - So you would at least have a chance of being on the same team, but would also have a chance of being put in opposite teams, playing against each other. Sounds fun to me, personally.

Edited by MobiusZero
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