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Concern for the future


MjSplicer

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WoD is ridiculously stupid.

 

Imagine if here in SWTOR our next storyline involved Dread Master Calyphayus escaping from prison and traveling back in time to the last war and tried to bring the Sith there back to the present to fight us. But instead of fighting off his invasion here in the present, we also all traveled back in time to fight him there.

 

That is basically WoD's storyline.

 

I haven't followed the goings on in WoW since Pandaland was announced but this does sound bloody terrible.

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Plenty of games have childish/stylized graphics and managed to be very successful, I'd suggest the design aesthetic is not the handicap you believe it to be.

 

It's fine on games like Torchlight or Borderlands, for exmple, but in MMO's, people take special notice on how their character actually looks. Even in WoW, the only childish looking characters are gnomes. It's entirely possible that it's just me that find Wildstar completely off-putting and if so, /shrug.

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I haven't followed the goings on in WoW since Pandaland was announced but this does sound bloody terrible.

 

yeah seriously, when I first saw that wow panda expansion commercial I thought I was watching a preview for the next Kung-Fu Panda movie...

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Look at the characater models. It looks like something aimed at 10 yearolds. It's not even "stylized" like Wow or SWTOR, it's just childish.

 

You'd have to play it. It has a unique art style that stands out when you actual see it on your own screen. It actually looks really good.

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WoD is ridiculously stupid.

 

Imagine if here in SWTOR our next storyline involved Dread Master Calyphayus escaping from prison and traveling back in time to the last war and tried to bring the Sith there back to the present to fight us. But instead of fighting off his invasion here in the present, we also all traveled back in time to fight him there.

 

That is basically WoD's storyline.

 

Doesn't matter. It's World of Warcraft, just like this is Star Wars. People will flock to it.

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I doubt ESO or whatever other MMO is really going to impact TOR population as much as certain doomsayers have postulated. Why? Simply look back to the launch of previous "big name" MMOs such as TOR, Age of Conan, LOTRO, Warhammer Online so on and so forth. Many people (including some gaming websites) have also postulated that at least one of those games will finally be the one to dethrone WoW, complete with glowing reviews, "blah blah blah of the year" awards and the endless hype associated with all that. However those realities never materialized so there is little reason to believe that ESO will somehow buck the trend and seriously damage TOR. Yes of course TOR will certainly lose some players (just like WoW did to each of those games) but then there will also be new incoming replacements as long as EA continues to advertise.

 

Anyway, this is all hearsay and guesses at the ended of day and it's not even really educated ones at that since gamers in general are known to be extremely fickle in terms of picking their poison, so to speak. The ones who would leave TOR for those other games may very well return 6 months later after they realize that the (insert new MMO) hype wasn't all that's cracked up to be.

Edited by Oneirophrenia
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We get one of these threads every couple weeks it seems.

 

Interestingly enough.. none of the concerns expressed (which are just variations of concerns expressed since launch over two years ago) have much evidence of having real merit in terms of impact to the game. Impact to people who like to worry? ... oh yeah.

 

It's fine to worry OP. Some people worry, some people do not. Hard to get worried, for me personally, about a game to be honest. Thing is.. like so many things in life, worrying about them will in no way change them.

Edited by Andryah
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Hmm... I don't think we have to worry about TESO either for many of the reasons mentioned. It is almost another genre really. Some will go take a look, but I don't think it has they staying power. Quite frankly... the combat sucks. It will be nice and shiny and people will go and take a look, but much like GW2, it will have a minimal impact.

 

Nevertheless, the OP has a point. I want to get excited about what is yet to come, but we haven't been given much to work with yet. Don't get me wrong, I think the BW team has a few aces up their sleeves. They know what is launching this year, and it is a competitive business. But... we are in February now and the game needs to create some buzz. People need multiple reasons to stay and what is yet to come is one key reason.

 

I don't want to speculate about what may be coming, but it has to be bold. And for the love of Kanobi, stick to your strengths BW. Remember what brought people here in the first place. Subs need to be a key value in what is to come.

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Unless ESO is a SW property, I don't think TOR has anything to worry about.

 

You mean like SWG was? How'd that work for them?

 

The gameplay of any MMO is what will make or break them. TOR's gameplay isn't terrible, but it is extremely generic and bland. That doesn't bode well for its ability to hold off any serious AAA MMO threat and TOR hasn't faced any new AAA MMO competition since it launched.

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At the cantina event last night Eric Musco announced that they currently plan to publish a 2014 roadmap next week. Possibly even Monday or Tuesday. He wouldn't give us any insight into what that roadmap would contain, other than to say he thinks players will be happy with what is shared.

 

I asked Eric and Ben each why the studio has such a huge concern over transparency,. My interpretation of their answer was basically, "because our boss is scared". It seems the company fundamentally believes that if they ever break a delivery promise, people will leave the game en-masse, and never come back. Ben said that they think players are more likely to stay indefinitely and be happy in ignorance, than if the same players get disappointed by a missed promise.

 

I made it very clear that as a player, there's absolutely no truth to that sentiment for me. If they delayed a feature, pulled a feature, swapped feature A for B, etc...I wouldn't leave the game over it. I'd rather know the direction the game is headed in, with an understanding they will adjust course from time to time, than the current system of relative darkness. Eric and Ben both think the studio is communicating better now than before, but here I honestly had to disagree...at least right now. Hopefully next week I'll be able to agree with them again.

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WoD is ridiculously stupid.

 

Imagine if here in SWTOR our next storyline involved Dread Master Calyphayus escaping from prison and traveling back in time to the last war and tried to bring the Sith there back to the present to fight us. But instead of fighting off his invasion here in the present, we also all traveled back in time to fight him there.

 

That is basically WoD's storyline.

 

Star Wars is ridiculously stupid. It's part Camelot legend, part Tolkien, part Dune, part DnD, part Star Trek, part Western, and part WW2 movie... but it works. Ok, it worked when Lucas knew it was just a mash of other similar goodguys vs badguys genres and it didn't work when he thought it was something profound.

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ESO is not a bad game by any means. Its actually better gameplay wise. I like the fact that I dont have to worry about hitting "1234567890-=" all the time and it plays how an elder scrolls game should (more in tuned with morrowind).

 

But this game doesnt have to worry about anything. "Star Wars" is keeping this game alive, and to me seems it is the ONLY thing keeping it alive. If this were an original IP im sure this game would have been dead long ago as it offers nothing new other than bioware's cutscene mission pick ups.

 

ESO is a button masher too, don't kid yourself. There really wasn't much to it and it is too damned consolized.

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Unless ESO is a SW property, I don't think TOR has anything to worry about.

 

That honestly made me laugh :D

 

But that doesn't change that the statement is true... ESO made a huge mistake with the collectors edition shizzle whizzle (an exclusive race only available through CE).

 

Technically speaking, I don't think it changes the sales or anything, but it'll most likely impact our perception of Bethesda (I take they're the ones doing the marketing?).

 

Wildstar on the other hand... Some say it'll be Guild Wars 2 Mark II, some say it'll be the game of 2014 (or whatever).

 

I personally don't anticipate any of these games killing our beloved SWToR. I just don't, as the opinions surrounding them are so widespread. I might've see it as a 'threat' if they had a massive following with minimal negativity. But as it is now... ToR has nothing to worry massively about.

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You mean like SWG was? How'd that work for them?

 

Given that SWG stuck around for more than 8 years, in my opinion it has worked out fairly well. Many MMOs outside of WoW or EQ would pretty much trade in their CEO's baby for an 8 year run.

 

The gameplay of any MMO is what will make or break them. TOR's gameplay isn't terrible, but it is extremely generic and bland. That doesn't bode well for its ability to hold off any serious AAA MMO threat and TOR hasn't faced any new AAA MMO competition since it launched.

 

AAA is in the eye of the beholder. One man's garbage is another man's gold. As far as sports analogy goes, heck, a lot of fans still prefer A or AA over AAA or Major league ball, not unlike how many other fans prefer NCAA over the NBA or NFL.

 

Anyway, I personally have little interest in ESO (never got into that series) or Wildstar (sandbox content is flat out unappealing to me after years of EQ and FF11) and I suspect that I'm not alone in that sentiment.

Edited by Oneirophrenia
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....

 

AAA is in the eye of the beholder. One man's garbage is another man's gold. I personally have little interest in ESO (never got into that series) or Wildstar (sandbox concept is pretty much trash to me after years of EQ and FF11) and I suspect that I'm not alone in that sentiment.

 

I think you are heavily underestimating the desire for anything different among MMO players.

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I think you are heavily underestimating the desire for anything different among MMO players.

 

And I think you're overestimating the variety of MMOs that are available out there, now or in the near future. It's hardly a new online game genre and more than one MMO has tried to take on the mantle of being "groundbreaking" or tried to differentiate itself from others in some drastic fashion. How many has actually succeeded in that pray tell? To me personally, the next upcoming MMO with promising "groundbreaking" potential is Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade in 2015 but even my enthuthiasm there is quite tempered.

 

The originality and variety of MMOs these days is not unlike that of Hollywood flicks. The standard formula will keep returning as long as it's profitable.

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And I think you're projecting your own desires upon the vast majority of 'mmo players.'

 

The "vast majority" of MMO players are exclusively WoW players.

 

Numerous attempts to duplicate WoW have crashed and burned. Other developers seem to have woken up to this, which is pretty obvious in all the hype for the upcoming big three MMO's. They are all going out of their way to hype themselves as "not WoW", without actually saying that.

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And I think you're overestimating the variety of MMOs that are available out there, now or in the near future. It's hardly a new online game genre and more than one MMO has tried to take on the mantle of being "groundbreaking" or tried to differentiate itself from others in some drastic fashion. How many has actually succeeded in that pray tell? To me personally, the next upcoming MMO with promising "groundbreaking" potential is Warhammer 40k Eternal Crusade in 2015 but even my enthuthiasm there is quite tempered.

 

The originality and variety of MMOs these days is not unlike that of Hollywood flicks. The standard formula will keep returning as long as it's profitable.

 

On the contrary, I think there is almost zero variety in MMOs today. The only variations from the WoW model are all so old that they can't be compared to anymore as viable competitors to anything "current". MMO innovation died about 10 years ago and, thankfully, it's become too risky to invest $200 million in anything that is just another WoW.

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The "vast majority" of MMO players are exclusively WoW players.

 

Numerous attempts to duplicate WoW have crashed and burned. Other developers seem to have woken up to this, which is pretty obvious in all the hype for the upcoming big three MMO's. They are all going out of their way to hype themselves as "not WoW", without actually saying that.

 

I'm not sure what this post has to do with your tendency to project your own desires onto vast numbers of people who aren't you.

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ESO is a great RPG but a bad MMO, so I don't think any real MMO's have anything to worry about.

 

Truth be told, all MMO's have a core group of supporters that play it to exclusion of all else and the rest are transients that jump from title to title without any loyalty to a specific title.

 

Every time a new game comes out there are chicken little's that cry that the sky is falling...for what reason I don't know but I suspect they think their cries will push the dev team of their chosen MMO to magically do everything "perfectly" (which is whatever that individual thinks is best for the game and to hell with the rest of the players opinions).

 

This game has come a long way since it launched, and since none of us are precog's we have no idea where it will go in the future but I'll take the Buddhist path and enjoy the now and worry about the future when it becomes the present.

Add to that those who play often (just not all the time) while also splitting time playing other games. It used to be that MMORPGs were embraced for their having so many things to do that one couldn't do them all on all of their characters. And by the time the majority of players were getting a handle on the content, more would come out leaving quite a bit still unfinished. The ubiquity of its off the beaten path gaming world is its greatest asset, with role play immersion being its greatest draw. Both are diminishing as focal points for today's gamers.

 

I think the 140 character limit attention span generation that Twitter has spawned is withering MMORPG prominence. The players that dominate today's gaming landscape (which also includes Facebook, console, tablet and hand held games) seem to be uncomfortable embracing long term commitment to gameplay goals. They appear to want a high-speed low-drag beeline to gameplay uberdom complete with microwave ready perks. Legacy perk and Cartel Shop successes are prime examples of the demand.

 

Most MMORPG end games are suffering for it because developers can't make the straight and narrow an infinite path. Nor can they somehow entice these types of players to explore their entire creation without forcing them through it. The Twitter generation has essentially strong armed game developers into implementing linear progression through their non-linear worlds.

 

It appears that Bioware realizes this too, and the Kuat flashpoint in 2.6 is proof that they are making an effort to address it. The FP features role-neutral and level-neutral play, with five possible gameplay scenarios, one of three random final bosses plus variable bonus objectives and mini-bosses. BW is breaking new ground (again) with it, and I'm sure it will draw its fair share of criticism. But if it works, MMORPG end game progression may eventually have a way to stay fresh.

 

Fear of TOR fading away from lack of content is unfounded imho. All one has to do is exit the power level expressway and explore the other 75% of the game. Though I do agree that fear of the MMORPG genre being in danger of losing players to short attention span titles is real. To regain its prominence, I believe MMOs have to somehow find a way to lead social media instead of mimic it.

Edited by GalacticKegger
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Well... IMO the thing is there isn't any loyalty among the players anymore. Players used to be loyal to a game and stuck with it until the wheels fell off. There was a better sense of a community. But there weren't that many games to choose from either and it was a specialty genre. A game for fans of the genre. Not so anymore, and I'm not sure if that is a bad or a good tbh.

 

And a GK points out with many options to choose from, a shorter attention span (lol) and the unrealistic expectations of the player base, players now ebb and flow from game to game.

 

Now, this game does have an established IP that will go a long way.

 

EDIT: On more thing. There was a time when an MMO could be all things because, to be quite honest, there was only so much that could be done. Now... an MMO IMO is better off carving out a niche and focusing on key areas they will advance instead of trying to be a swiss army knife. Why? Because there really is only a finite number of things a dev team can do and do well.

Edited by Rafaman
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Well... IMO the thing is there isn't any loyalty among the players anymore. Players used to be loyal to a game and stuck with it until the wheels fell off. There was a better sense of a community. But there weren't that many games to choose from either and it was a specialty genre. A game for fans of the genre. Not so anymore, and I'm not sure if that is a bad or a good tbh.

 

And a GK points out with many options to choose from, a shorter attention span (lol) and the unrealistic expectations of the player base, players now ebb and flow from game to game.

 

Now, this game does have an established IP that will go a long way.

 

For sure, there's so many games out there it makes your head spin, and with each new release, all other titles get watered down, people saying this game wont take big hits from ESO and wildstar are deluding themselves, sure, some will return, but others wont.

What happened with WOW will never happen again, its simply not possible as more and more games are released and more niches filled.

All companies can do now is to try and capture enough of a share of the players for a sustainable and profitable business.

Youre right about the IP, and that's a good lure, but keeping them and getting them to spend money is the hard part.

My sister was looking for a new game to play and I suggested this, and she said she had no interest in an MMO, but I told her that's its a great game regardless with really great stories and that the mmo part of the game can be totally ignored, so she gave it a go, and made a sorc and finished the story and then a scoundrel, she loved every minute of it, but she was only here for 2 months and didn't spend a cent and will never return unless more class stories are introduced, she asked me to let her know if it ever happens.

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