So in light of 2.1 having such divided, polarised views from the community, anyone up for a reasonable discussion rather than the caps lock infested threads that have swarmed the forums since yesterday?

Personally, i'm pretty disappointed in the sense that EA/Bioware seem to promise us with awesome features, build up the anticipation with exciting trailers showcasing these new features and then BAM - Cartel Coins. Coins are a good idea for individual armour (Eradicator being a good example), and other 'exclusive' items; however charging basic content with Cartel Coins is a pretty low move on their part. Not going to go through the maths of it all but, say you wanted to re-customise a character into a Cathar; firstly, you'd have to buy the species for 600 coins and then on top of that, changing a species costs ANOTHER 700. It all adds up to ridiculous amounts.

I love this game and I really want it to be successful. I just don't want them to rely on Cartel coins too much and end up losing tens of thousands of subs when they're faced with the prospect of having to use real currency on top of the Sub fees to stand a chance of having good gear thus having as good an experience as those who can afford the additional costs.

Open to a respectable discussion with anyone who disagrees/agrees.

Complainers gonna complain.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&sa=N&hl=en&biw=1443&bih=727&tbm=isch&tbnid=EU4UYwuERSdKjM:&imgrefurl=http://katiedozier.com/%3Fp%3D468&docid=dsz1c_-Eu7PGiM&imgurl=http://katiedozier.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/haters-gonna-hate.jpg&w=640&h=360&ei=Cd2TUeHOJsagywGj5YGIDQ&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:2,s:0,i:168&iact=rc&dur=20&page=1&tbnh=168&tbnw=300&start=0&ndsp=19&tx=50&ty=60

/5chars

So in light of 2.1 having such divided, polarised views from the community, anyone up for a reasonable discussion rather than the caps lock infested threads that have swarmed the forums since yesterday?

Personally, i'm pretty disappointed in the sense that EA/Bioware seem to promise us with awesome features, build up the anticipation with exciting trailers showcasing these new features and then BAM - Cartel Coins. Coins are a good idea for individual armour (Eradicator being a good example), and other 'exclusive' items; however charging basic content with Cartel Coins is a pretty low move on their part. Not going to go through the maths of it all but, say you wanted to re-customise a character into a Cathar; firstly, you'd have to buy the species for 600 coins and then on top of that, changing a species costs ANOTHER 700. It all adds up to ridiculous amounts.

I love this game and I really want it to be successful. I just don't want them to rely on Cartel coins too much and end up losing tens of thousands of subs when they're faced with the prospect of having to use real currency on top of the Sub fees to stand a chance of having good gear thus having as good an experience as those who can afford the additional costs.

Open to a respectable discussion with anyone who disagrees/agrees.

WHAT...?!?! What does good gear have to do with the Cartel Market...?! The market offers vanity items for the most part. Period.

WHAT...?!?! What does good gear have to do with the Cartel Market...?! The market offers vanity items for the most part. Period.

Sorry, bad phrasing. What I meant was, if Bioware are bringing out content which rely on cartel coins being bought in order to access them now at this moment in time then they may (and I stress may) in the future bring out armour and other exclusive gear that rely on the purchase of Coins thus putting them at a disadvantage. That was probably a stupid statement but looking at other 'vanity' things such as hairstyles etc; we should not have to pay for it with real money!

I completely agree with you. They have effectively gone way beyond what in my opinion would have been a good strategy with the cartel market. Aside from the actual gameplay of GW2 I liked how they handled micro-transactions. There dye system was to me the best I had seen and was really hoping for something along those lines here. Instead we get the majority of dye colors, especially the ones we all want as super rare drops from a rng box purchase. Then on top of that they are useable only ONCE? Insane.

I feel like I am starting to get less and less of my money's worth by having a subscription when everything is costing me additional money. Who gives a damn about the discount when it's still costing me more. Then the whole collector's tab, what a joke. I have to own the whole damn set to be able to unlock what I want? Once again having to buy more through CC.

I don't know who's decision it was to implement this type of dye system and this type of collector's tab but it is by far the most irritating slap in the face I have seen from a gaming company. I enjoy this game but damnit I am tired of having to shell out more and more money for a freaking CHANCE to get what I want after already having paid through a sub.

Cartel Market? Hardly, this is more like the Cartel Casino and everyone knows how good those are for customers.

There is none, absolutely no 'good gear' that you have to use Cartel Coins to buy. You don't have to use Cartel Coins to buy ANYTHING. Every single thing offered on the Cartel Market can also be had off the GTN for credits instead. This argument is completely moot.

I wasn't 'arguing' anything; merely stating. You take one phrase from the entire paragraph and make out that my entire statement is about good gear on the market?

That was probably a stupid statement but looking at other 'vanity' things such as hairstyles etc; we should not have to pay for it with real money!

Not trying to insult you here, but, yes it was.

Not because it could never happen, but because you are reaching a conclusion that has nothing to do with the facts you are basing your hypothesis on.

Changing your hairstyle doesn't make you more powerful so I'd really like to know how you reached the conclusion that they are heading down the P2W way.

Also, why "vanity"? You make it seem like it's not vanity, when it's exactly that.

I'm sorry but it seems to me that you are connecting two totally different issues just to say that you wanted customization for free, which is of course your right to want it, but your logic makes no sense.

Sorry, bad phrasing. What I meant was, if Bioware are bringing out content which rely on cartel coins being bought in order to access them now at this moment in time then they may (and I stress may) in the future bring out armour and other exclusive gear that rely on the purchase of Coins thus putting them at a disadvantage. That was probably a stupid statement but looking at other 'vanity' things such as hairstyles etc; we should not have to pay for it with real money!

Of course you should. That's the way a coin market works. Pay for vanity. Its no different than DDO, LOTRO, or other cash shops. And its the emerging model of MMO that pretty much is going to be taking over due to its success.

Thats right, its success. This model saved DDO and LOTRO and made them profitable. It allowed us to have Makeb and new content to be released down the line. For all the QQ ing here, people are spending money. And most of them don't even look at these forums, so any attempt to sway them here is wasted.

As they say, Don't hate the playa (EA/Bioware), hate the game (MMO Industry).

I completely agree with you. They have effectively gone way beyond what in my opinion would have been a good strategy with the cartel market. Aside from the actual gameplay of GW2 I liked how they handled micro-transactions. There dye system was to me the best I had seen and was really hoping for something along those lines here. Instead we get the majority of dye colors, especially the ones we all want as super rare drops from a rng box purchase. Then on top of that they are useable only ONCE? Insane.

 

I feel like I am starting to get less and less of my money's worth by having a subscription when everything is costing me additional money. Who gives a damn about the discount when it's still costing me more. Then the whole collector's tab, what a joke. I have to own the whole damn set to be able to unlock what I want? Once again having to buy more through CC.

 

I don't know who's decision it was to implement this type of dye system and this type of collector's tab but it is by far the most irritating slap in the face I have seen from a gaming company. I enjoy this game but damnit I am tired of having to shell out more and more money for a freaking CHANCE to get what I want after already having paid through a sub.

 

Cartel Market? Hardly, this is more like the Cartel Casino and everyone knows how good those are for customers.

Absolutely. Cartel Market was a brilliant idea, but they've taken the whole idea of 'cartel coins' to a whole new level. I just fear they'll get a bit to content with the cartel coins and charge absolutely everything and anything worth having with them in the hope of some profit.

Of course you should. That's the way a coin market works. Pay for vanity. Its no different than DDO, LOTRO, or other cash shops. And its the emerging model of MMO that pretty much is going to be taking over due to its success.

 

Thats right, its success. This model saved DDO and LOTRO and made them profitable. It allowed us to have Makeb and new content to be released down the line. For all the QQ ing here, people are spending money. And most of them don't even look at these forums, so any attempt to sway them here is wasted.

 

As they say, Don't hate the playa (EA/Bioware), hate the game (MMO Industry).

i never expected them to look at this thread; it was directed at other players. I think you're missing the point that what I'm trying to say is that, in the future, they will rely on cartel coins too much using them as currency for items that should be able to be bought with credits.

So in light of 2.1 having such divided, polarised views from the community, anyone up for a reasonable discussion rather than the caps lock infested threads that have swarmed the forums since yesterday?

But the "sarcastic eyeroll" smiley is OK.

[... H]owever charging basic content with Cartel Coins is a pretty low move on their part.

Name one item of "basic content" you have to pay CC for. The only basic content subs have to pay for is RotHC, which was a major expansion, and every MMO I know of charges real money for major expansions.

Damn right they've gone too far this time.

After a sub buys the new race, the dyes, the hairstyles, the hair colours and the white eye change, they should be able to implement those things on their characters, but nooooo, they decide that all that money you just forked over wasn't enough, they try to get you to give MORE to implement the things you just paid for.

It's as if a movie theatre charged you for your seat in the theatre, and then demanded more money to run the film.

It's too much, its gone too far this time.

But the "sarcastic eyeroll" smiley is OK.

 

 

Name one item of "basic content" you have to pay CC for. The only basic content subs have to pay for is RotHC, which was a major expansion, and every MMO I know of charges real money for major expansions.

Hairstyles? Do I really need to use real money for hairstyles? And MAJOR expansion? Well that's a different argument altogether. However, my argument; as I keep on stressing to others is that if they are slowly using cartel coins for things like hairstyles and other stupid basic things like the chiss customisation kit (TWO hairstyles and two skins colours if i'm correct?) then where will that lead to? I only worry for the game out of respect; out of the want for the game to succeed.

It's too much, its gone too far this time.

The door, as they say, is that way ------->

Hairstyles? Do I really need to use real money for hairstyles?

Apparently, in TOR, you do. Are you saying "hairstyles" = "basic content?" Looks more like "optional cosmetics" to me.

However, my argument; as I keep on stressing to others is that if they are slowly using cartel coins for things like hairstyles and other stupid basic things like the chiss customisation kit (TWO hairstyles and two skins colours if i'm correct?) then where will that lead to?

It will lead to more cosmetic and convenience items on the CM (your illogical slippery-slopery notwithstanding), all of which will be incorrectly categorized as "basic content" by someone.

I only worry for the game out of respect; out of the want for the game to succeed.

If you expend one micro-gram of worry on a computer game, you must lead an extraordinarily care- and trouble-free life. It's a game, not a spurting artery.

You don't have to pay for hairstyles. There's about 30 to choose from for human character creation types that are all free.

You have the option to buy some premium ones. If they never add more basic free hairstyles it's still a lot more than most other MMO character generators give you for free.

Damn right they've gone too far this time.

 

 

After a sub buys the new race, the dyes, the hairstyles, the hair colours and the white eye change, they should be able to implement those things on their characters, but nooooo, they decide that all that money you just forked over wasn't enough, they try to get you to give MORE to implement the things you just paid for.

 

It's as if a movie theatre charged you for your seat in the theatre, and then demanded more money to run the film.

 

It's too much, its gone too far this time.

Thanks for bringing up specific customisations we have to pay for now. I couldn't remember them But yeah; someone said earlier about the fact that all other MMO's do this - I don't remember having to pay (with real money) for any eye colours, skin and hair colours in any other MMO including major ones like WoW and Guild Wars 2!

The door, as they say, is that way ------->

It's not a case of 'exiting'. I can't speak for who you're quoting but i damn well want to stay and I'm only posting on the forum because I want the game to succeed.

You don't have to pay for hairstyles. There's about 30 to choose from for human character creation types that are all free.

 

You have the option to buy some premium ones. If they never add more basic free hairstyles it's still a lot more than most other MMO character generators give you for free.

Yes but why the hell can't they just put the hairstyles in? Is it too much to ask? I'm not a designer or anything of the sort but I'd bet on the fact that implementing hairstyles into the game isn't much of a task. There's no need to charge us with cartel coins. Just put it in!

...snip

Coins are a good idea for individual armour (Eradicator being a good example), and other 'exclusive' items; however charging basic content with Cartel Coins is a pretty low move on their part. Not going to go through the maths of it all but, say you wanted to re-customise a character into a Cathar; firstly, you'd have to buy the species for 600 coins and then on top of that, changing a species costs ANOTHER 700. It all adds up to ridiculous amounts.

First off... please use more page breaks in the future. And now have a look at the bolded parts of your post. What you're referring to here are two different actions. The first one is to globally unlock a race on your account. This is very similar to how it exists today for the other races. The only component of this that one can argue is that the unlock is not necessary if you created and leveled a particular race from 1 to max level. That automatically unlocks the race for future use.

For Cathar, you pay for the unlock. For Subs, that's either one month to wait, or two. The only reason people are complaining is that they don't want to wait and would prefer to spend their free monthly allotment of CC on something else. Well tough, how you spend your allowance is on you. You can't complain that there are too many neat things to spend your allowance on. The point is to save up, or buy more CC. At least as a subscriber you have the option to save up. F2P do not.

Now as for the second feature/action, that's a completely separate thing. That's a cosmetic/vanity choice to change an existing character's race to something else. Just because it's coincidental with your desire to switch to Cathar doesn't make it any better/worse than say... if you wanted to switch from Rattataki to Zabrak. You'd still have to pay for that customization. No one is forcing you to switch a character to Cathar, you could simply unlock it and level up a new Cathar. You'd also get to see all the cutscenes as a Cathar... whereas a race switch would bypass all that.

Race change (as well as the other character customizations) are all cosmetic and vanity and thus correctly belong as something you need to spend CC on. Again, as a sub, you can simply save up the CC and wait on the cosmetic change. Why must you get it right away for "free"?

I love this game and I really want it to be successful. I just don't want them to rely on Cartel coins too much and end up losing tens of thousands of subs when they're faced with the prospect of having to use real currency on top of the Sub fees to stand a chance of having good gear thus having as good an experience as those who can afford the additional costs.

Open to a respectable discussion with anyone who disagrees/agrees.

And then you leapt to a comment that talks about "good gear" which implies either PvE or PvP competitive gear, which has NOT shown up in the Cartel Market at all. Sure there's some leveling gear, but it's obsolete at 55. All of the rest of the gear is cosmetic, which still continues to fit inside the basic rule of the Market being vanity items only.

Sorry, but I have to disagree with you.

It's not a case of 'exiting'. I can't speak for who you're quoting but i damn well want to stay and I'm only posting on the forum because I want the game to succeed.

Then stay. And pay. That's how the game succeeds. What you are lobbying for (more for less money) is counter-productive to your stated goal of seeing the game succeed and prosper.

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/883/ealol.jpg

I hate 2.1.

All this supposed 'polarisation' over 2.1 is nonsense. There are a few discontents on the boards who happen to ***** and moan louder than the very satisfied majority. There's no evidence of a greatly disappointed community, least of all in-game which is busier than I've seen it in ages and full of people in a diversity of dyed clothing and, yes, Cathar! So people are buying the new features. They're not throwing their toys out of the crib like a few malcontents are.

I swear to god people like you just pick on anyone who has something critical to say of the game. From looking at the threads, AND in game; there are many people who are disappointed so my use of 'polarised' is quite justified. Anyway, this isn't the whole point of this thread so if you're here to discuss the phrasing and choice of words on my posts then leave. A discussion on the state of the Cartel Market and its currency is what I wanted to start here. Not an observation on the current emotive state of the swtor community.

http://imageshack.us/a/img194/883/ealol.jpg

 

I hate 2.1.

Right. Because doodles drawn by a 12 year old make an excellent argument. I love 2.1. I think most players do. They're certainly buying the heck out of its stuff in-game.