Jump to content

Same gender relationships clarifications?


elexier

Recommended Posts

Yeah, honestly I just don't know exactly what kind of work goes into it and what kind of strings they need to pull to rework current companions. I know we've discussed a lot of different ideas before, like a way to "reset" companions. In one sense I think that wouldn't be too bad of an idea since it would allow people to go through it again without leveling from scratch, but then maybe that trivializes your decisions somewhat.

 

I have only finished the trooper story so far, but unless the other classes are radically different, decisions you make regarding your companions are already unimportant (from the moment they join in the case of Jaesa). All that they really affect are affection. And you can raise that with gifts to negate the fallout of any decision your companions did not like.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 5.5k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

blegh... more and more all that they said sounds like PR garbage to me, nothing more. What makes SGRs, so so so complicated that it'll take years of writing to make it "right" ? What makes writing SGRs such an uber monumental titanic endeavour as opposed to OGRs ? How is it that neutral lines, like the ones the game currently has for most of the romances, with little references to the PC's gender is ok, but only ok for OGRs ?

 

/rant over

 

(not aimed at you Kioma, I guess I'm just frustrated)

 

It is not the writing that is the problem it is the coding. Adding a second romance path for SGRAs to a companion requires to change the dialog tree quite alot.

As example one can bring up the mods for past Bioware games.

DA:O allowed SGRAs with some companions. In order that those romances could exist the dialog tree for all for LIs, even Morrigan´s and Alistair´s who were planned as straight from the start, contains several romance and gender checks that happen independently so that it is rather easy to enable an SGRAs with Morrigan or Alistair, but since those two were planned as straight many romantic lines are wrong (

, Morrigan will expect a female Warden to impregnate her, ...)

The complete straight cast of ME2 on the other hand does not have gender checks other to check at the end of the regular dialog if the PC has the correct gender to initiate a romance. If you trick this first gender ckeck the rest of the romance will play out, but treat the PC as the wrong sex the whole time. In most of the cases this leeds to ridiculous scenes (

).

 

Considering the long time it takes for companion SGRAs to come to SW:ToR I think it is safe to assume that that the dialog in SW:ToR uses the ME2 mold so that a change will require to basically reprogram the whole thing from the start.

 

On the positive side since a dialog consist of little more than a few dialog lines, once they get added it should not be a big download so that all companions can be done at the same time.

Edited by Wittand
Link to comment
Share on other sites

It is not the writing that is the problem it is the coding. Adding a second romance path for SGRAs to a companion requires to change the dialog tree quite alot.

Not only that but you'd have to have cutscenes as well, several ones for all the companions involved. I don't want to find excuses but that's also something to take into account.

 

And, like some others have said before, we don't know yet how elaborate the romances on Makeb are going to be. With all the 'It's only two flirt lines anyway..." talk (from both sides) I hope they won't settle for that, you know, since we didn't expect more anyway. :p

 

I think if things turn out lacklustre, we have to hold them accountable but we also need to be fair. ;)

 

On another note, I forgot what a drag Tatooine was. Geez..... :rolleyes:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not only that but you'd have to have cutscenes as well, several ones for all the companions involved. I don't want to find excuses but that's also something to take into account.

 

Those aren't excuses, they're reasons why it can't be done quickly.

 

Should SGRA have been in the game from the get go? Yes.

 

The problem is, they weren't. Now Bioware has to do some work to implement SGRAs, and it might take a little time to do it properly. But please don't take this as me defending Bioware. They did this to themselves, and we should absolutely hold Bioware's feet to the fire until they fix it.

 

But from my personal point of view, I want them done right. I never brought myself to "fix" either DA:O or ME (any of them) in order to romance any of the characters I wanted to - because I didn't think I'd be able to stand the wrong lines and the messed up animations. I don't want them to "fix" the lack of SGRAs in the same manner. (Was going to say something about NWN, but was unable to recall if it was fully voiced or not... But I do know it had far fewer lines, far fewer things needing to be fiddled with in order to get SGRs working - and even then, it was a pretty cheap and nasty way of doing it. The task involved removing some gender checks, changing masculine pronouns into gender tokens (which meant the line would insert the correct pronoun based in your character's gender), and assorted other tinkerings with the scripts.)

 

And, like some others have said before, we don't know yet how elaborate the romances on Makeb are going to be. With all the 'It's only two flirt lines anyway..." talk (from both sides) I hope they won't settle for that, you know, since we didn't expect more anyway. :p

 

I think if things turn out lacklustre, we have to hold them accountable but we also need to be fair. ;)

 

On another note, I forgot what a drag Tatooine was. Geez..... :rolleyes:

 

I agree. This isn't a simple situation, and can't be fixed by someone at Bioware: Austin clicking their fingers or waving a magic wand. It is going to take time, no matter what solution they choose. I am happy they're including something with Makeb, and I'm sure we're not going to let them just rest on their laurels and not move on companion romances. However, we should be patient and reasoned and most importantly fair in our approach to this, because anything else makes us look like children throwing a tantrum because we didn't get what we wanted NOWNOWNOW.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

blegh... more and more all that they said sounds like PR garbage to me, nothing more. What makes SGRs, so so so complicated that it'll take years of writing to make it "right" ? What makes writing SGRs such an uber monumental titanic endeavour as opposed to OGRs ? How is it that neutral lines, like the ones the game currently has for most of the romances, with little references to the PC's gender is ok, but only ok for OGRs ?

 

Not all the romances make sense with a simple gender tag switch. Which means new cutscenes, new lines added in, so they need to beable to get the original voice actor back, because if they didn't, you can imagine how upset some of the playerbase will be "WHAT THE OMG THIS ISN'T MAKO...TORIAN...QUINN...ECT!"

 

Hmmm...I can swear both Adronokis and Torian mentioned gender, but I haven't play every class myself.

 

Wasn't put in at the beginning, so adding things in, won't be easy.

 

Also, I know my Inquistor had a romance going with a non-companion NPC that was a bit more than a few flirt options, and I wouldn't really say it was any less than the companion romances, the only difference really being, he didn't become a companion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's kind of funny how with Mass Effect 3 they called in most of the important voice actors for the Extended Cut within a few months, but with SWTOR it's been a year now... and I'm fairly certain scheduling and paying the voice actors is the big hurdle for getting new companion content. I suppose that just goes to show how severely the budget has been cut for the game.

 

But if the Cartel Market and expansion sales go well, maybe eventually we'll reach a point where the game has enough content that needs to be voiced for it to be seen as worth the expenses and risks. Like, if they can record romance lines, lines for another expansion, some extra lines for lv.1-49 content, and maybe some lines for existing endgame/daily content... all at the same time.

 

That would put it pretty far into the future, though. Another year, at least.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And, like some others have said before, we don't know yet how elaborate the romances on Makeb are going to be.

 

Very true. I'm hoping for something like the non-companion romances that Troopers and (I think) Agents get now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very true. I'm hoping for something like the non-companion romances that Troopers and (I think) Agents get now.

 

 

You only get the Watcher romance if you're human - she's rather speciest.

 

Edited by Tatile
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You only get the Watcher romance if you're human - she's rather speciest.

 

 

From what I've heard, you still can but it's a bit harder. I could be wrong (never played it ofc).

 

It's still funny that the only romance in game that takes anything about the player into consideration (species in this case) is a non-companion one. Unless there are others I'm not aware of, then correct me.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You only get the Watcher romance if you're human - she's rather speciest.

 

 

Not true actually, you can get her as an alien, she just reacts to you at a different place in the story in a different way. Samara (drunk lady on DK that you try to bribe), however, you have to be human. Also, regardless of whether you're human or alien, if you romance Kaliyo too quickly, Watcher 2 will get upset and cut off the relationship.

 

 

I don't know if there's any npc romance that is as complicated as her's.

 

I have only finished the trooper story so far, but unless the other classes are radically different, decisions you make regarding your companions are already unimportant (from the moment they join in the case of Jaesa). All that they really affect are affection. And you can raise that with gifts to negate the fallout of any decision your companions did not like.

 

They tend to be more complicated in situations where you have more than one romanceable companions on your ship, where you get a confrontation and have to make a choice about it. You can definitely kill a romance or stop it from happening on at least most of them. There also are some decisions you make about the nature of your relationship (marrying, not marrying but staying together, and some other things specific to certain companions).

How important those decisions are depends on whether they ever continue companion stories, and how much you value your own personal RP experiences with them.

Edited by chuixupu
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Curious, SGR was left out, but what about Polyamorous Relationships? Not everyone is confined to monogamous relationships in their RL, so why leave them excluded?

 

 

Well, FWIW Agents can marry a Voss, and as far as I know, you remain married indefinitely. Marry a companion on top of that and you're set. Probably not what you're looking for, but there it is.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most questions I've seen asking about poly relationships have been removed, likely because Bioware though that the people asking were trolling (they may have been), but I think it's a reasonable suggestion. There is nothing inherently wrong with an open or multi-party relationship, so long as all members are in agreement with each other.

 

I imagine there may be Sith* who have married for power, but maintained external relationships out love (...or power).

 

 

*Sith can do anything. No one questions Sith.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Most questions I've seen asking about poly relationships have been removed, likely because Bioware though that the people asking were trolling (they may have been), but I think it's a reasonable suggestion. There is nothing inherently wrong with an open or multi-party relationship, so long as all members are in agreement with each other.

 

I imagine there may be Sith* who have married for power, but maintained external relationships out love (...or power).

 

 

*Sith can do anything. No one questions Sith.

 

Well, not trolling here. I got to thinking on how I think I'd want to play out my SW and I think poly would be the way to go!

 

But yeah, was thinking with companions.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'd love to see polyamory in SWTOR but frankly I don't think that's going to happen. Having a companion partner who doesn't mind you playing about with non-companion NPCs is probably about the closest we'll ever see. I mean, look at the furore over two people with the same shaped genitals. I don't think either should be an issue but I can see how BW:A might want to avoid that metaphorical can of worms.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

My agent is definitely polyamorous. :o

 

People generally ask that question when it comes to gay marriage in general, although in real life I think there's certainly a large number of social/tax/economical issues that are relevant.

 

I think in the context of the game, they just like to have people make meaningful choices, and not be able to marry every companion and NPC. What are the odds that every romanceable companion in the game is totally cool with sharing? :cool:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My agent is definitely polyamorous. :o

 

Your agent would get along with plenty of my characters, then.

 

People generally ask that question when it comes to gay marriage in general, although in real life I think there's certainly a large number of social/tax/economical issues that are relevant.

 

Depending on where you are, I guess. There are a lot of laws regarding de facto partners that are the same for same sex couples in Australia now.

 

I think in the context of the game, they just like to have people make meaningful choices, and not be able to marry every companion and NPC. What are the odds that every romanceable companion in the game is totally cool with sharing? :cool:

 

I don't know many polyamorous people who are totally cool with sharing either. Sharing with rules and negotiations, and with coping mechanisms for jealousy spikes, sure - but those things don't need to be represented in-game. If polyamory were put in SWTOR (which I don't expect to ever happen) those things would be non-mechanical writing elements, I assume.

 

Then again I don't know a single polyamorous person who's not in some way or another a recovering monogamist living in a monogamy-centric society. Historical evidence suggests that people brought up in societies accepting of non-monogamy don't (surprise surprise) have hang-ups about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Very true. I'm hoping for something like the non-companion romances that Troopers and (I think) Agents get now.

 

I've been thinking about this and I don't believe the Makeb "romances" can be as in depth as the non-companion ones in game now.

 

From what I understand, none of the Makeb content is class and character exclusive...so all dialog choices will come down to a roll for up to 4 people in a group. The non-companion romances used in your example had dialog exclusive to an instance and the owner of it. It would be kind of odd if four players were romancing the same NPC over the course of Makeb's story.

 

So, it has to be like some of the shared flirt opportunities we have now with random NPCs and will be subject to a roll if you are in a group, which aren't deep at all.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Then again I don't know a single polyamorous person who's not in some way or another a recovering monogamist living in a monogamy-centric society. Historical evidence suggests that people brought up in societies accepting of non-monogamy don't (surprise surprise) have hang-ups about it.

 

Recovering monogamist sounds wrong, I mean we don't say recovering heterosexual when talking about gay people that have come out.

 

On topic, it would be interesting to see something like that in a future game, although I don't see myself using that option.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Recovering monogamist sounds wrong, I mean we don't say recovering heterosexual when talking about gay people that have come out.

 

I agree, it does sound wrong, but options are low. If you can think of a better term for someone who's been indoctrinated with the belief that monogamy is the only viable model of relationships and is attempting to break free of that, well, you let me know.

 

On topic, it would be interesting to see something like that in a future game, although I don't see myself using that option.

 

A game, yes. SWTOR, I don't think it'll ever happen. It's taken us a year just to get word of upcoming non-companion NPC same sex flirts.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am thoroughly disappointed with BioWare's handling of SGRA. Restricting it to one planet, sticking it behind both a level wall and a pay wall and not including romanceable is just insulting. I was fine with BioWare's poor handling of other aspects of the game. That whole mess with the oceanic release, the sharding of areas, the lack of basic mmo features such as chat bubbles, the annoying restrictions the game used to have (alignment restriction of colour crystals for example), the gambling machine that is the cartel market, I could put up with all that, but this is pushing things too far. Not only does it not give me hope for the future of the game, it makes me question the future of BioWare as a company and all their games. Can we expect the same sort of treatment in DA3? ME4? Edited by Dire-Wolf
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am thoroughly disappointed with BioWare's handling of SGRA. Restricting it to one planet, sticking it behind both a level wall and a pay wall and not including romanceable is just insulting. I was fine with BioWare's poor handling of other aspects of the game. That whole mess with the oceanic release, the sharding of areas, the lack of basic mmo features such as chat bubbles, the annoying restrictions the game used to have (alignment restriction of colour crystals for example), the gambling machine that is the cartel market, I could put up with all that, but this is pushing things too far. Not only does it not give me hope for the future of the game, it makes me question the future of BioWare as a company and all their games. Can we expect the same sort of treatment in DA3? ME4?

 

 

In DA3 no, in ME4 not exactly, but still pretty bad. Thats just a guess in both cases, based on the previous games in each series, but the DA series started good and improved to great, the ME series started decent (1 out of 2 female teammates romancable, like DAO) and finished terrible (0 out of 3 female teammates romancable in ME2 and 1 out of 5 in ME3, but with one female NPC romancable in ME2 and two in ME3 for what thats worth) . Ultimately it comes down to the guy making the decisions in the DA series wants to give us as much as possible, the ME guy wants to give us as little as possible, like the SWTOR guy. The level of pressure on each guy in the ME and SWTOR games dictated exactly how much he gave us, they'd give us zero if they could, but they can't. The DA fellow, whose name is David Gaider for those who don't know, has stated quite clearly that those at the highest levels of Bioware don't care what he or any of his equals in the other game series' do with the romances, they can do them the way he did them in DAO, in DA2, or just the way they did it in SWTOR, they don't care one bit (Im sure he would add that they do care when the decisions result in extreme public backlash, like the ME2 and SWTOR ones, seems like a reasonable guess). But the general point is each game has a head guy, and that one guy has all the power when it comes to who is, and who isn't, allowed to enjoy the romances. I remember back when the ME2 controversy came out (the first Bioware game in modern history that had no SGRA whatsoever, other than one NPC which they tried to pretend wasn't even a romance, it shocked everybody at the time), virtually everyone that worked on the game favored the DA style approach, and thats how it was going to be in the game, then the head guy swooped in at the last minute and made them disable all our romances, every last one of them, with the dreaded gender check, thats why there was plenty of evidence of the romances still on the disc, bits and pieces here and there. The Devs made it as clear as they could, without losing their jobs, that they disagreed with the guy's decision and fought to keep the romances in, but ultimately the one guy had all the power and he abused it to our tremendous disadvantage.

 

The DA guy will always give us plenty, that will never be a problem, he's made that perfectly clear. The ME and SWTOR guys will always give us as little as public pressure, or lack thereof, allows them to, they've made that perfectly clear as well. Thats who they are as people, thats what they believe in. Thats why we can't let up, if we let up thats when it ends, we've gotten all we're gonna get at that point, other than in the DA series which will always be good. Its ironic and sad, if the romance decisions were made as a team, by the folks working on each game, we'd be happy with the results in all of them. Most of Bioware is on our side, including most of the people working on each game, but ultimately the decisons of which romances do or dont get gender-checked away are made by one person, the guy at the top of each game. Nobody else's opinion carries any weight at all, except when the pressure gets so huge that somebody higher up orders them to do something to put an end to it. If the head of the ME or SWTOR series changes, we'll likely get romances-o-plenty in that given series. Until then, we're only going to get what they feel is absolutely required to avoid bad press, that's why what we're doing by constantly asking for fair and equal treatment is so important. But DA3 will be awesome either way, that's a given.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've been thinking about this and I don't believe the Makeb "romances" can be as in depth as the non-companion ones in game now.

 

From what I understand, none of the Makeb content is class and character exclusive...so all dialog choices will come down to a roll for up to 4 people in a group. The non-companion romances used in your example had dialog exclusive to an instance and the owner of it. It would be kind of odd if four players were romancing the same NPC over the course of Makeb's story.

 

So, it has to be like some of the shared flirt opportunities we have now with random NPCs and will be subject to a roll if you are in a group, which aren't deep at all.

 

Well, I can tell you this, and I believe this has been brought up in the thread before, but when I've seen people encounter npc romances in groups, the romance option just doesn't trigger. You can't roll to win to sleep with Darth Lachris. It won't happen. For Makeb, even though we know we aren't going to have class stories, there could in fact be class instancing still. But even if there is not, there's a good chance that they've thought of these things. There are some non-class quests in the game that you can't share with other people (like the ones tied to operations). So we'll have to wait and see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...