Yet people go ape over the fact bolster is in rank it's there because noobs will still que for it. Blocking some one from rank because you want uber competition is great gaming how? No aspect of an MMO should be off limits to any of the population they should even let free to play run all pvp period better for ques. Bolster does not stop you from being competitive in rank what you really want is under gear players getting stomped in ranks. Give it a rest bolster is here to stay move on already

uh...no. those noobs shouldn't be in rated to begin with. no bolster + 2018 exp prerequisite. these are perfectly reasonable and very attainable levels. you know this. bolster is fine in theory. a system predicated on gear grind is fine (to me), but they don't belong together. how do you not see this? they serve opposite functions. they work against each other.

regardless, rated is the highest possible level. if you want to queue unprepared, that's your business. get your butt spanked. I can accept that (no prereq). just stop acting like rated is anyone's first step into pvp and get your stuff pushed in w/o the retard buff.

Recruit gear was awesome, and I'm sorry but if somebody didn't understand that they needed to put on the free set of pvp armor that they got, to do pvp, they aren't going to figure out how to buy the Tier 1 or 2 armor to upgrade anyways, so there goes your gear progression ideal.

THIS.

THIS.

THIS.

The devs logic for this makes absolutely no sense. According to these devs, getting a free set of PvP gear in the mail to put on for PvP was so impossible to understand that they needed to implement bolster. But these same players that are having trouble with this idea supposedly have no trouble jumping into endgame PvE and understanding FOUR TIERS of PvE comms and gear without any explanation or PvE bolster? It's just illogical.

THIS.

 

THIS.

 

THIS.

 

The devs logic for this makes absolutely no sense. According to these devs, getting a free set of PvP gear in the mail to put on for PvP was so impossible to understand that they needed to implement bolster. But these same players that are having trouble with this idea supposedly have no trouble jumping into endgame PvE and understanding FOUR TIERS of PvE comms and gear without any explanation or PvE bolster? It's just illogical.

That is not the problem they had with recruit gear. The problem with recruit gear has been explained many times.

1. it sucked. It was too weak to get people started in PvP. People in full WH/EWH (or whatever the gear was) were able to take on 2-3 recruit geared people at once.

2. it was more powerful than tionese gear. Because of that it allowed people who put it on to go straight into ops and avoid doing any fps. So now it was not only useless in PvP, it was ruining PvE.

Those were the problems. People weren't putting it on not because they couldn't figure out how to right click on the piece of armor, but because it was garbage. Any type of recruit gear will lead to the same problem. It will be too weak for PvP, too strong for PvE. People will stop doing the next HM level fps (60 hm?) that come with the new expansion and will go straight to doing 60 sm ops, and they will still be completely stomped by geared players because of the gear difference.

Bolster solves both of these problems. The only problem left now is augments. If they can just nullify them, bolster will be fine and skill will be what is important.

THIS.

 

THIS.

 

THIS.

 

The devs logic for this makes absolutely no sense. According to these devs, getting a free set of PvP gear in the mail to put on for PvP was so impossible to understand that they needed to implement bolster. But these same players that are having trouble with this idea supposedly have no trouble jumping into endgame PvE and understanding FOUR TIERS of PvE comms and gear without any explanation or PvE bolster? It's just illogical.

People refusing to use it was only a small part of the problem with recruit gear. The more serious issue that as originally implemented recruit gear was awful against top tier PvP gear, and improving it would break PvE progression.

In the end almost all of the problems with bolster are derived from the inherent problems caused by having traditional MMO vertical gear progression in PvP. The problem with increasingly powerful tiers of gear in PvP is that you either have the sorts of problems we have with bolster, or new players are simply barred from participating due to large power differentials.

The only solution that is not fraught with these problems is to make all end game gear have the same stat budget regardless of how it is obtained and have progression occur through customization of stats, appearance, acquiring titles, and acquiring other vanity items and cool gear skins. Any other system fails on one level or another. Of course going to a non-stat based progression system does require the game community to change how they think about progression in an MMO, and unfortunately no developer has had the balls to bring out that sort of system and stick with it.

Because of that it allowed people who put it on to go straight into ops and avoid doing any fps. So now it was not only useless in PvP, it was ruining PvE.

Interesting. Because not once since launch have I taken a toon through fps in order to gear for ops. Why would anyone do this? You can get in a party and grind out a set of 66's from the Oricon missions. At which point you are thoroughly geared to run SM's to get into 69's.

And for anyone that's working on an alt, they will just use basic comms from a main or other 55 to gear straight into 69's. There is absolutely no reason to ever have to gear for end game via FP's, so that argument should be tossed straight out.

Dear Eric Musco,

I am still waiting for your explanation: how do you resolve the contradiction of reasoning on the importance of gear progression in PVP and having Bolster applied to level 55 at the same time?

To make it clear: Bolstered PVE gear at the moment is equal (or even better) than Tier 1 (Obroan) PVP gear and definitely superiour to previous tiers of PVP gear. How exactly does this mechanism serves as an incentive to grind PVP gear?

And honestly: do you really think a noob is helped out in endgame PVP with Bolster? Do you really believe the 3-6% edge a PVP gear should have over any bolstered PVE gear would make any difference for them? Seriously.

All you achieved was to eliminate the incentive for PVPers to grind gear and piss them off.

Or to be fair, I can not speak for them, but I do not wish to grind PVE commendations or to craft modifications to find out which is significantly better than the PVP gear.

Interesting. Because not once since launch have I taken a toon through fps in order to gear for ops. Why would anyone do this? You can get in a party and grind out a set of 66's from the Oricon missions. At which point you are thoroughly geared to run SM's to get into 69's.

 

And for anyone that's working on an alt, they will just use basic comms from a main or other 55 to gear straight into 69's. There is absolutely no reason to ever have to gear for end game via FP's, so that argument should be tossed straight out.

everything you say changes with every content update. some fps lose relevance. new ones drop better gear. new storylines (like oricon) raise gear levels. etc. at this point, recruit gear that's the equivalent of conqueror would be meh for pve and good for pvp (if bolster didn't make it worse than pve gear). the separation between 2 and 3 tiers of pvp gear is not huge in and of itself and it hasn't been since the institution of ewh vs. wh. from that point on, the tier increases have been less...significant.

What a long winded post for the OP to say that they want everyone to follow their path into pvp and only be allowed entry on their say so. Couldn't disagree more.

If someone who has never tried pvp or played very little develops an interest in pvp while they have a level 55 character, more power to them. What are they supposed to do, level a new character just because some other player doesn't want to let them into the pvp club? Any suggestion that insists that they undergo some right of passage smacks of hazing and gang initiations and is pathological.

Bolster is a great idea. It just was poorly implemented and not fully explained but now that has mostly been corrected. Any so called "pvp'er" shouldn't have an issue with it as they should have all pvp gear anyways.

What a long winded post for the OP to say that they want everyone to follow their path into pvp and only be allowed entry on their say so. Couldn't disagree more.

If someone who has never tried pvp or played very little develops an interest in pvp while they have a level 55 character, more power to them. What are they supposed to do, level a new character just because some other player doesn't want to let them into the pvp club? Any suggestion that insists that they undergo some right of passage smacks of hazing and gang initiations and is pathological.

Bolster is a great idea. It just was poorly implemented and not fully explained but now that has mostly been corrected. Any so called "pvp'er" shouldn't have an issue with it as they should have all pvp gear anyways.

I'm not sure you understand the argument from the angle of a PvPer. We're not against people queuing for reg warzones. We encourage participation in PvP to increase the number of players. Unfortunately, bolster does not properly prepare players for the experience and it ends up being negative instead of positive. By having a system telling you PvE gear is ok, they queue in whatever they have on and if that is 78s or unaugmented, you're going to have a bad time. Having 2018 (or close at least) expertise and at least a full set of optimal blue augments or better is imperitive to not be outmatched on gear alone.

As for ranked, it should not be open to everyone, just like any top tier content shouldn't be available to anyone who just hit 55. This is not the place to learn PvP or earn entry gear, it's the place to compete. If we had an enormous population and those underskilled/undergeared players would only face each other, then it wouldn't be a problem. But currently, the queue for ranked is small enough to where you will face the best players if you queue. You're bringing the entire team's rating down if you queue as an undergeared player and die in the first 10 seconds.

TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

TL;DR Bolster is meant to help entry level players, ranked PvP is not entry level PvP.

Dear BW, ^this.

I don't care what you WANT rated pvp to be. the fact of the matter is that it is what it is. see quote. k thx. bai.

Dear BW, ^this.

 

I don't care what you WANT rated pvp to be. the fact of the matter is that it is what it is. see quote. k thx. bai.

I assume you and Jades are saying remove bolster from ranked, but that wouldn't really solve the issue, especially with Yolo.

It really needs a gear/EXP/Aug check either way, along with something else. I know it might sound lame, but valor at least shows a player played a certain amount of WZ, so theoretically should have a "clue". Still a bit fuzzy o. That one though.

Keep in mind they also added bolster to "eliminate gear as a barrier to ranked", especially for alt rerolls. I much rather see other ranked restrictions go up based on performance, rather than arbitrary gear stats.

Yet people go ape over the fact bolster is in rank it's there because noobs will still que for it. Blocking some one from rank because you want uber competition is great gaming how? No aspect of an MMO should be off limits to any of the population they should even let free to play run all pvp period better for ques. Bolster does not stop you from being competitive in rank what you really want is under gear players getting stomped in ranks. Give it a rest bolster is here to stay move on already

I agree with this. Trying to limit the players that can participate is a terrible idea.

The problem with bolster as is - we need a clearer path for gear progression. Often times putting on a piece of shiny new PvP gear makes your stats worse in PvP (and PvE) and that is frustrating. Just give us a clear and easy to understand path for gear progression.

I assume you and Jades are saying remove bolster from ranked, but that wouldn't really solve the issue, especially with Yolo.

 

It really needs a gear/EXP/Aug check either way, along with something else. I know it might sound lame, but valor at least shows a player played a certain amount of WZ, so theoretically should have a "clue". Still a bit fuzzy o. That one though.

 

Keep in mind they also added bolster to "eliminate gear as a barrier to ranked", especially for alt rerolls. I much rather see other ranked restrictions go up based on performance, rather than arbitrary gear stats.

lol. no. you cannot ban bad ppl from rated. you can, however, make it non-retarded by removing bolster and instituting a gear requirement (2018 exp). the valor thing is superfluous. there's a gear grind to get a full set of pvp gear. the bolster system, amongst other dumb ****, undercuts this gear grind.

so yes. that's TWO fundamental things that any idiot could see are a good idea for rated pvp in a pug system like yolo solo. however, the argument to eliminate bolster from rated holds independent of the expertise requirement. rated pvp is not an entry level format. BW has stated that their "official reason" for keeping bolster in rated is so as not to deter first time PVPers (see the infamous PVP FAQ post). You see where this is going, right? bolster doesn't make sense in rated even by BW's own moronic logic.

edit: 2018 exp is a ridiculously easy to attain req. it's not like it's asking a lot. it's a full set of any pvp tier. and without bolster screwing things up, even partisan would be better than pve ops gear.

edit 2: can you find 5 PvPers who actually queue solo rated who would object to having to gear out alts properly if it meant everybody else on their team would definitely be geared properly as well? I don't think those 5 ppl exist.

lol. no. you cannot ban bad ppl from rated. you can, however, make it non-retarded by removing bolster and instituting a gear requirement (2018 exp). the valor thing is superfluous. there's a gear grind to get a full set of pvp gear. the bolster system, amongst other dumb ****, undercuts this gear grind.

 

so yes. that's TWO fundamental things that any idiot could see are a good idea for rated pvp in a pug system like yolo solo. however, the argument to eliminate bolster from rated holds independent of the expertise requirement. rated pvp is not an entry level format. BW has stated that their "official reason" for keeping bolster in rated is so as not to deter first time PVPers (see the infamous PVP FAQ post). You see where this is going, right? bolster doesn't make sense in rated even by BW's own moronic logic.

 

edit: 2018 exp is a ridiculously easy to attain req. it's not like it's asking a lot. it's a full set of any pvp tier. and without bolster screwing things up, even partisan would be better than pve ops gear.

 

edit 2: can you find 5 PvPers who actually queue solo rated who would object to having to gear out alts properly if it meant everybody else on their team would definitely be geared properly as well? I don't think those 5 ppl exist.

Well I doubt if anyone would object, but removing bolster will more or less have no affect on undergeared and/or inexperienced players from queing. In just being devils advocate here, but really, team ranked guys police themselves, so bolster is somewhat of a non-issue. I 100% agree that bolster invalidated the grind, but as you said, its easy, and team ranked isn't the place for grinding gear, so why not just eliminate it, and place bolster EXP and augment checks, and something as a performace gauge to qualify, whether we are talking team or yolo?

The notion of removing bolster from ranked is absolutely ridiculous and if BW gives in to the complaining and ever does that, it would turn an already carebear EZ-mode pvp into a completely pathetic waste of time.

Hide behind your min/maxed gear all you want or use bolster's shortcomings as a scapegoat, but let's not kid ourselves here - this isn't about paying debts or whatever you're talking about, this is putting ranked pvp on a pedestal as the higher level of competition while simultaneously asking BW to let you have advantages over other players within this "more competitive" bracket.

I guess instead of continuing to tell BW to "remove bolster from ranked", we should modify it to "remove bolster from team ranked"?

How is bolster an issue for team ranked? Whether bolster exist of not, team will almost always come in Que with optimized or near optimized gear.

I agree their reasoning is lame, but for all the faults that bolster has, its better than the previous system in getting some stat equality, regardless of how much you play. Even the "bugs" have been minor in the grand scheme of stat equality.

I guess at the end, if they removed bolster, which they probably won't, I would hope they change the regs to reward more ranked comms and significantly increase comm caps. The weapon juggling and legacy gear farming is sooo dumb.

How is bolster an issue for team ranked? Whether bolster exist of not, team will almost always come in Que with optimized or near optimized gear.

bolster is a crutch. its sole purpose for existence is as a prosthetic. it's literally like a wheelchair, crutches, hand controls, steroids/PEDs. all of those analogies are directly applicable. rating is *supposed* to be an absolute criterion. you don't go to the BMX nationals with training wheels. if you're horrible, and you want to queue, then nobody has any right to stop you, but you damn well better go in there exactly as you are.

I agree their reasoning is lame, but for all the faults that bolster has, its better than the previous system in getting some stat equality, regardless of how much you play. Even the "bugs" have been minor in the grand scheme of stat equality.

not only is their reasoning "lame," it's wrong. they don't even seem to understand the pros and cons of their own system. can you believe they said bolster was in RATED so as not to deter FIRST TIME PVPers? wow. either utterly moronic or a flat lie. there is a reason, however, for bolster. and that reason is to fix their own half-arsed gear system. if they didn't bolster PVP weapons, they'd be worse than top end PVE weapons. wow. right? well...at least that's a valid reason for bolster's existence in rated.

I guess at the end, if they removed bolster, which they probably won't, I would hope they change the regs to reward more ranked comms and significantly increase comm caps. The weapon juggling and legacy gear farming is sooo dumb.

what? why? no. going into rated with tier 1 or a mix of tier 1 and 2 pvp gear is not an issue. the stat difference between that and full tier 2 is minimal. and the grind wouldn't change at all. it's already very easy to get tier 1, which is all that's necessary (gear-wise) to compete in regs or rated. I do pass stuff with legacy, but I don't bother with the weapon juggling, and I have absolutely no difficulty equipping whatever toon I want with full tier 2 and all of the rest with tier 1...on day one of a new gear drop. iunno. it is a grind based system. removing bolster doesn't change that. removing bolster from rated only discourages ppl from farming comms in yolo solo cuz they'll get crushed that much faster and that much fewer comms. (getting crushed in rated arena, btw, yeilds what? 20-40 comms? you can walk away with 90 comms in a WZ loss; that's 30 rated right there. the difference is negligible but the experience of winning every once in a while in the WZ makes the latter far more appealing)

bolster is a crutch. its sole purpose for existence is as a prosthetic. it's literally like a wheelchair, crutches, hand controls, steroids/PEDs. all of those analogies are directly applicable. rating is *supposed* to be an absolute criterion. you don't go to the BMX nationals with training wheels. if you're horrible, and you want to queue, then nobody has any right to stop you, but you damn well better go in there exactly as you are.

You have it backwards. Bolster is attempting to establish equality by minimizing the impact of gear - e.g, making everyone have the same bike or testing bats to make sure none of them are corked, etc.

But gear is a crutch, as people rely on whatever advantages they can get and cowardly seek to destroy the system BW put in place to increase competition.

You have it backwards. Bolster is attempting to establish equality by minimizing the impact of gear - e.g, making everyone have the same bike or testing bats to make sure none of them are corked, etc.

 

But gear is a crutch, as people rely on whatever advantages they can get and cowardly seek to destroy the system BW put in place to increase competition.

except they said straight up that they want a gear grind. it's core to the game. you can't have it both ways. you can't insist on a gear grind only to invalidate that gear grind with bolster. I do not have it backwards. BW has instituted two systems that don't work together. and their explanations for why those systems are in place is all over the place. they're defending them just to defend them. I don't particularly care if everyone has the same gear or if they want a gear grind. but instituting a grind and then undercutting that grind... jesus. how the hell can pve ever be preferable to current t1 pvp in a WZ/arena? how do you justify that?

except they said straight up that they want a gear grind. it's core to the game. you can't have it both ways. you can't insist on a gear grind only to invalidate that gear grind with bolster. I do not have it backwards. BW has instituted two systems that don't work together. and their explanations for why those systems are in place is all over the place. they're defending them just to defend them. I don't particularly care if everyone has the same gear or if they want a gear grind. but instituting a grind and then undercutting that grind... jesus. how the hell can pve ever be preferable to current t1 pvp in a WZ/arena? how do you justify that?

Yet T1 PvP is better than T1 PvE gear for PvE..... Yeah it's frakked and the crux of why I say the explanation is lame and plain old lazy. We all know bolster was introduced because PvP gear broke PvE. It would be a huge leap if they just admit that fact and remove ANY grind to PvP and actually rewarded progression in "better" fashions other than gear stats. As much as they want to say gear progression is a core part of an MMO, gear progression is typically not a core component of PVP, at least on the magnitude that we had when bolster didn't exist. Until they decide to rework PvP gear so it increases EXP and EXP alone, we will always be in the in-between state where two systems effectively screw each other over.

Yet T1 PvP is better than T1 PvE gear for PvE.....

I think that's because they capped expertise. which I think is what you say in the <snip>

anyway...I've crusaded before about the antithetical principles of tiered gear + bolster in the same "system." some ppl agree. others do not. BW is adamant that the only problem is that they haven't quite adjusted bolster. bolster seems (to me) more like that emergency gunk you spray in your car tire when you get a flat. it will get you to a service station, but it's a pretty horrible idea to enter your car in a road race like that.

THIS.

 

THIS.

 

THIS.

 

The devs logic for this makes absolutely no sense. According to these devs, getting a free set of PvP gear in the mail to put on for PvP was so impossible to understand that they needed to implement bolster. But these same players that are having trouble with this idea supposedly have no trouble jumping into endgame PvE and understanding FOUR TIERS of PvE comms and gear without any explanation or PvE bolster? It's just illogical.

Not to mention working out what mods and enhancements need to be stripped and from which pve loots, so the "casual" player can max out expertise-ish and have superior other stats in WZ......

The issue isnt bolsters existance, its just that its slightly too good.

If bolster made unranked gear equal to its equivalent Partisan piece and had no effect on PvP gear, these complaints wouldnt exist.

So the system i'd put in place is simple:

Entry Level: Partisan or Bolster

Tier 1: Conqueror. Now available with credits

Tier 2: Obroan. Warzone comms.

Tier 3: Brutaliser. Ranked Comms

Oh and make Parisan 65s (27x) and Conqueror 66s (28x), so the difference between the worst and best PvP gear (ignoring augments) is 10% damage output

Warzone comms come from doing warzones, PvP dailies and PvP weeklies, and also trading in ranked tokens

Ranked comms come from doing Ranked Arenas, PvP dailies and PvP weeklies and also trading in warzone comms.

Now if I were to take it further, I'd do this:

PvP gets another weekly for doing all the new dailies. The new dailies are found at a rate of one in each daily zone, and are "Kill 10 enemy players in open world PvP", found on Ilum, the black hole, CZ198, section X, and Oricon (Makeb is left out because its not really a daily zone). There is also a "Kill 50 players in open world PvP" Daily at the PvP terminal.

Put that system in place and watch as PvP starts coming back, both in open world and in warzones. Its not much though.