I have over 1300 expertise and thats a mix of elitewhero and regualar switched enhances for some alacrity i still hit over 400k heals and thats with less than 1800 cunning.

 

All teams should be focusing healer maybe you just stand in plain view of everyone and heal don't make it obvious or they know your one of the few who heals so when they see you they just go for you. what sever re you on?

 

post your spec via torhead.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701MffrzGoRdsZ0cZG.2 my heal spec

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#701McbZGhMRddRdGRZo.2 my dps spec i change the 1 and 7 round often sometimes putting a few points in damage reduction

Edited December 17, 2012 by LordZym

not sure what teams you fight against, but I always have DPS on me at all times to kill me. If a team doesn't have DPS on a healer, then LOL. Simple as that.

 

Try playing against some teams that focus healers, and you'll see what I'm talking about. And also, when I'm on the attack phase, I do more attacking than healing, since staying alive isn't as critical. Flybys/stuns/mezzes/cyber nades are what wins those rounds in addition to the SRM heals.

 

EDIT - Last WZ I did I had taken 456k damage.

 

EDIT again - and that's not even ranked. On ranked WZs I'll take 500k+

 

would still love to hear your HPS records, with proof, since you keep ignoring this part

not sure what teams you fight against, but I always have DPS on me at all times to kill me. If a team doesn't have DPS on a healer, then LOL. Simple as that.

 

Try playing against some teams that focus healers, and you'll see what I'm talking about. And also, when I'm on the attack phase, I do more attacking than healing, since staying alive isn't as critical. Flybys/stuns/mezzes/cyber nades are what wins those rounds in addition to the SRM heals.

 

EDIT - Last WZ I did I had taken 456k damage.

 

EDIT again - and that's not even ranked. On ranked WZs I'll take 500k+

 

Ofcourse we get focused too. That doesn't stop you from casting completely though, you can use stuns as well as fakecasts to get off a lot of heals. The way you're healing just will not keep anyone alive against even average dps.

Ofcourse we get focused too. That doesn't stop you from casting completely though, you can use stuns as well as fakecasts to get off a lot of heals. The way you're healing just will not keep anyone alive against even average dps.

 

That's why my team typically beats almost every single team we face, and why I outheal virtually every other healer on my server. That is, I win when I run with good teams. I'll run with some noob teams who lose on occasion just to give them advice.

 

And here's my SS of me doing over a million in heals. Where is yours? But wait... it's impossible to heal if you get endurance instead of alacrity isn't it?

 

Also notice, this is before I was done min/maxing, so I'm missing about 100 expertise and 100 power in this, with an odd amount of cunning. I can give more 1 mil screens if needed.

 

http://i.imgur.com/y9Law.jpg

 

And look at the DPS on their team. One almost 900k and two almost 700k. That's 'mediocre' isn't it?

Edited December 17, 2012 by Lulzbot

who gives a **** about 1m total heals?

the other healer did 935k

 

your civil war match went to 10-0. i don't think anyone is really impressed by 1m total heals anymore when they're really long matches like that. btw, you only did about 800 HPS, which is the stat that matters.

 

and btw, you can't trade surge or alacrity for endurance on enhancements. you trade crit or power.

Edited December 17, 2012 by oaceen

That's why my team typically beats almost every single team we face, and why I outheal virtually every other healer on my server. That is, I win when I run with good teams. I'll run with some noob teams who lose on occasion just to give them advice.

 

And here's my SS of me doing over a million in heals. Where is yours? But wait... it's impossible to heal if you get endurance instead of alacrity isn't it?

 

Also notice, this is before I was done min/maxing, so I'm missing about 100 expertise and 100 power in this, with an odd amount of cunning. I can give more 1 mil screens if needed.

 

http://i.imgur.com/y9Law.jpg

 

And look at the DPS on their team. One almost 900k and two almost 700k. That's 'mediocre' isn't it?

FOr ****'s sake, for the 10th time.

 

1 million heals is NOTHING.

1.5million heals is nothing. HEALS PER SECOND is what counts. I just got 1274heals per second in a voidstar, which only lasted a little less than 10 minutes. it got me 700k, which is a LOT more impressive than 1 million heals in civil war where it ends 10-0.

Aboutheals per second, you got 800. thats simply BAD.

If you go above 1000, you might have a foot to stand on. Else you don't.

 

I'm only doing this to help you. I used to heal like you do now. Then i changed, and gotten much better results since.

 

and yes, in a match like that, 1million dps shouldnt be hard.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Aerilas

That's why my team typically beats almost every single team we face, and why I outheal virtually every other healer on my server. That is, I win when I run with good teams. I'll run with some noob teams who lose on occasion just to give them advice.

 

And here's my SS of me doing over a million in heals. Where is yours? But wait... it's impossible to heal if you get endurance instead of alacrity isn't it?

 

Also notice, this is before I was done min/maxing, so I'm missing about 100 expertise and 100 power in this, with an odd amount of cunning. I can give more 1 mil screens if needed.

 

http://i.imgur.com/y9Law.jpg

 

And look at the DPS on their team. One almost 900k and two almost 700k. That's 'mediocre' isn't it?

 

800hps is very bad, yes. Thanks for proving my point.

 

Also, you can't trade alacrity for endurance, only for surge.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Truescopes

800hps is very bad, yes. Thanks for proving my point.

 

Also, you can't trade alacrity for endurance, only for surge.

 

yes, 800hps is very bad. Just think, with my 1200 hps i would have gotten 1.5 million heals in that match.

Ranked should require 1000 at least. Thanks for proving our point.

 

and indeed. you cant trade alacrity for endurance, only surge. Therefore your surge is probably 79% or something, which is too high and youre losing on diminishing returns

Edited December 17, 2012 by Aerilas

yes, 800hps is very bad. Just think, with my 1200 hps i would have gotten 1.5 million heals in that match.

Ranked should require 1000 at least. Thanks for proving our point.

 

and indeed. you cant trade alacrity for endurance, only surge. Therefore your surge is probably 79% or something, which is too high and youre losing on diminishing returns

 

Where is your SS's? And yes, my surge is too high, but I would rather have too high of surge which would help me, and alacrity which would not. I'm going to be able to trade the surge for power with EWH anyways now.

 

And that match I linked, their healer casted skills. Look at how low their healing was. Simply because all it took was a few interrupts.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Lulzbot

Firstly, thanks for the lovely read. Secondly, everyone heals differently. No one is 'doing it wrong' because they don't cast UWM or DS. Scoundrel healing works for people in different ways. Some like to do more burst and others like to keep HoTs up and throw in some damage to build upper hand. Personally I don't try to do so much damage. I like to stay in the back and heal as much as I can so the DPS can do their job and I can do mine. I find myself casting UWM fairly frequently, but I also die fairly quickly if two or more people jump on me simply because I can't get off a cast and all my abilities are on CD. Most good players know to interput a healing cast when they see it, so stacking power/surge/crit with no alacrity isn't necessarily a bad thing. It can actually work for you if you kite and are able to stun enemies so if you need you can cast UWM or KP. I know a fantastic scoundrel healer that rarely casts his healing abilities in Warzones, he does, but not as much as I do. He doesn't run out of energy as fast as I do and he lives longer than me. Having no alacrity means that you needs to constantly keep SRM up on yourself so if you are attacked while running away or whatever you're healing yourself and others and building UH. If your EMP can crit for 3k or 4k what's the point of casting an ability when you have stacks of UH. This entire argument is really silly. Everyone has a different point of view, and just because some stack stats differently doesn't mean they're bad or are doing it wrong. Yes, a million heals is a lot and I've hit just as much as any of you have. However, everyone achieves it a different way. So just respect how they do it and don't go pointing fingers.

Where is your SS's? And yes, my surge is too high, but I would rather have too high of surge which would help me, and alacrity which would not. I'm going to be able to trade the surge for power with EWH anyways now.

 

And that match I linked, their healer casted skills. Look at how low their healing was. Simply because all it took was a few interrupts.

here's your fancy screenshots.

 

1.1mill healing with lots left on the CW scoreboard and 1.1hps: http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-20_22_30_24_091396_zps44c0cee2.jpg

1151healing per second: http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-19_00_15_16_390490_zps55c42f69.jpg

 

I got 1274 personal record yesterday yet didnt pic, so sad panda because of that.

 

with healing per second you can calculate our differences

 

More pics :

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-16_00_36_11_336636.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-12_22_18_00_442743.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-27_19_05_34_985931_zps432debec.jpg

Edited December 17, 2012 by Aerilas

here's your fancy screenshots.

 

1.1mill healing with lots left on the CW scoreboard and 1.1hps: http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-20_22_30_24_091396_zps44c0cee2.jpg

1151healing per second: http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-19_00_15_16_390490_zps55c42f69.jpg

 

I got 1274 personal record yesterday yet didnt pic, so sad panda because of that.

 

with healing per second you can calculate our differences

 

More pics :

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-16_00_36_11_336636.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-12_22_18_00_442743.jpg

http://i461.photobucket.com/albums/qq339/Aerilas/Screenshot_2012-11-27_19_05_34_985931_zps432debec.jpg

 

Damn, if I had low deaths like that I hit more numbers for SURE! What server are you on? I'm going to xfer there I think.

Damn, if I had low deaths like that I hit more numbers for SURE! What server are you on? I'm going to xfer there I think.

 

 

Lol still finding a way to wriggle out. Idie little because I survive good. As I said I don't need the extra endurance

You have most people here against you, didn't see anyone agree. Good job man.

 

You're not to be reasoned with. Now I'm really out.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Aerilas

Lol still finding a way to wriggle out. Idie little because I survive good. As I said I don't need the extra endurance

You have most people here against you, didn't see anyone agree. Good job man.

 

You're not to be reasoned with. Now I'm really out.

Been casually playing a BM-geared Sawbones alt, and, after reading your posts here, I've got a sudden paradigm shift. I also used to neglect Alacrity, but I think I'll definitely try using it.

Where is your SS's? And yes, my surge is too high, but I would rather have too high of surge which would help me, and alacrity which would not. I'm going to be able to trade the surge for power with EWH anyways now.

 

And that match I linked, their healer casted skills. Look at how low their healing was. Simply because all it took was a few interrupts.

 

Everyone has nice games, I usually don't bother screenshotting mine. But I figured you would ask to see some so I screenshotted my best game out of around 10 from today. They really don't mean too much, but here: http://i.imgur.com/KCkdA.jpg

 

I took 480k damage that game, while not a crazy amount it's still a fair bit and I was able to cast quite a lot.

 

You can't trade surge for power. Surge can only be exchanged for either alacrity or accuracy, and obviously we don't need accuracy to heal.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Truescopes

Lol still finding a way to wriggle out. Idie little because I survive good. As I said I don't need the extra endurance

You have most people here against you, didn't see anyone agree. Good job man.

 

You're not to be reasoned with. Now I'm really out.

 

A way to wriggle out? If you die less, you heal more. I die more because people attack me more. If I would take the time to start casting an ability, I would die.

 

I know this concept might be foreign to you, but on my server DPS attack healers and interrupt them. With all of your games being 1 deaths that you showed me, you don't die because you're not harassed. Simple as that. I would have WAY more HPS if I stayed alive for longer. There isn't a way for me to "wriggle" out of anything. A scoundrel is best at not casting, as the other classes rely on it so much.

 

And yes, the enhancements I have found I'm going to be able to swap some of my crit and surge for power.

 

And it doesn't matter how many people tell me this or that. I know I've spent more time with this class than any other healer. I used to see the scoundrel as a casting healer as well, as you do now. After COUNTLESS amounts of PvP against teams that interrupt every single ability a healer would cast, I learned to adapt.

 

But hey, if the DPS on your server are going to let you free cast, by all means, take it. You can heal more that way, that was never in doubt. But as for me, I deal with DPS that kill me and interrupt every single ability I would cast, so I have to do what I can do to win and keep my teams alive. As it is, I'm the top healer on my server, and the teams I join usually win.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Lulzbot

A way to wriggle out? If you die less, you heal more. I die more because people attack me more. If I would take the time to start casting an ability, I would die.

 

I know this concept might be foreign to you, but on my server DPS attack healers and interrupt them. With all of your games being 1 deaths that you showed me, you don't die because you're not harassed. Simple as that. I would have WAY more HPS if I stayed alive for longer. There isn't a way for me to "wriggle" out of anything. A scoundrel is best at not casting, as the other classes rely on it so much.

 

And yes, the enhancements I have found I'm going to be able to swap some of my crit and surge for power.

 

And it doesn't matter how many people tell me this or that. I know I've spent more time with this class than any other healer. I used to see the scoundrel as a casting healer as well, as you do now. After COUNTLESS amounts of PvP against teams that interrupt every single ability a healer would cast, I learned to adapt.

 

But hey, if the DPS on your server are going to let you free cast, by all means, take it. You can heal more that way, that was never in doubt. But as for me, I deal with DPS that kill me and interrupt every single ability I would cast, so I have to do what I can do to win and keep my teams alive. As it is, I'm the top healer on my server, and the teams I join usually win.

 

No you can't swap surge for power. You can only swap crit for power that is a fact.

 

After what you just wrote, it's clear you're deluded, no matter what proof we provide you with you will just make excuses.

 

So I'm also out.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Truescopes

No you can't swap surge for power. You can only swap crit for power that is a fact.

 

After what you just wrote, it's clear you're deluded, no matter what proof we provide you with you will just make excuses.

 

So I'm also out.

 

Deluded? Because I know how the DPS on my servers play? Have you played on my server? No you have not. In a ranked environment, the good DPSers WILL interrupt EVERY SINGLE SKILL a healer casts as long as they are on that healer. Simple as that.

 

And yes, I CAN swap out surge for power. It might not be "item for item" but I am losing SURGE and CRIT for power. So, yes. I am "swapping" surge for power. The PvP on my server might not be what it used to be, but the top teams will still interrupt every single time. Lord knows if I'm a DPS on a healer, if I'm not using my interrupt every time it's off of a CD when they're casting, I'm not doing half of my job.

 

SO sorry that you think a scoundrel is IMPOSSIBLE to play without casting. I've been there on both sides of the fence, and I've got what works best for what I go up against. If I was able to cast and use my casting skills, then I would. But guess what, I'm not, so instead of standing there trying to cast, or to kite to LOS to where I can, I simply use the skills I'm able to use instead.

 

And yes, the enhancements I have found I'm going to be able to swap some of my crit and surge for power.

 

i think people would give you a lot more credibility if you actually knew how itemization worked.

 

And yes, I CAN swap out surge for power. It might not be "item for item" but I am losing SURGE and CRIT for power. So, yes. I am "swapping" surge for power.

 

NO, you're not.

 

you cannot swap surge for anything but alacrity, accuracy, or shield.

 

 

here, let me help you.

 

enhancements have 3 slots:

 

slot 1: endurance

slot 2: crit OR power

slot 3: accuracy OR surge OR alacrity OR shield

 

you can trade the value in slot 1 with slot 2 (and vice-versa), giving up crit OR power for endurance or the other way around

 

slot 3 will ALWAYS HAVE THE SAME VALUE

 

 

so if you're gaining power, you're either swapping out a mod that had crit (swapping crit for power) or swapping out a mod with high slot 1 value for a high slot 2 value (endurance for power)

if you are losing surge, then you are swapping out surge for accuracy, alacrity, or shield.

 

again, you cannot swap out surge for power. period.

Edited December 18, 2012 by oaceen

Arguing with someone named lulzbot is pointless from the start

I just want to say that this thread has been the most enlightening thread I have seen since I dusted off my smuggler and began playing him again.

 

If we could just take the emotion out of this thread, I would say sticky it.. heck sticky it anyway. I have learned so much from this back and forth. I am just about to finish the WH stage one grind and now I know what I am going to do from there.

 

Thanks a mill for both sides viewpoints.. BTW I do want to say that I am impressed by the capabilities of both sides. Obviously, both are very capable healers..

Been casually playing a BM-geared Sawbones alt, and, after reading your posts here, I've got a sudden paradigm shift. I also used to neglect Alacrity, but I think I'll definitely try using it.

 

He's seen the light!!! /end blues brothers quote.

 

Eventually, every single gearing/stat/playstyle post i have seen lately ends up at the same point: Alactrity.

 

For those of you that are interested, i have bumped a post with a guide all about alacrity for a sawbones. What it is, how it works, it's effectiveness, and the best way to get it with a breakdown of potential ways to get it on appropriate enhancements etc.

 

Worth a read, regardless of personal playstyle and if you think you will need it/use it or not.

 

Thread here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=553249

Edited December 19, 2012 by GHoppa

It's unfortunate that this thread devolved into a bit of a peeing match, because I do think there's a valuable discussion to be had here.

 

First, a tangent: It's important to note just how awful surge rating is above 300. It was nerfed hard in patch 1.2. I don't care if you're a heavy HoT healer or a heavy UWM healer... Surge > 300 is a waste of a stat. You might as well get some alacrity, even if it just helps you channel Diagnostic Scan faster once in a while.

 

I find the question of Healing Stats vs Endurance intriguing. Unlike PVE, where endurance is the enemy and must be avoided at all costs, in PVP endurance is extremely valuable.

 

Being in a progression PVE guild, I don't get a chance to do ranked PVP matches often. In unranked warzones, I find the default War Hero Field Medic gear (which is rather endurance rich) to be itemized with sufficient defensive stats. It's pretty rare that I die more than once or twice per warzone. If I were to play Ranked, I suspect that my endurance might be too low, although I suppose you can more reliably count on having a tank and guard available to you during ranked matches. I dunno.

 

I am intrigued by the math though. I decided to crunch some numbers to see how much healing you'd give up to maximize survival. Warning, math inside!

 

As far as I can tell, these are the best-in-slot configurations of each:

 

Maximized Healing Stats

Expertise > Cunning > Crit 350 > Power > Surge 300 > Alacrity > Endurance

BiS: http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/f4128da3-c45b-4cf6-b724-0fededa04d37

• 1396 Expertise
  
• 19321 hp
  
• +664.5 Bonus Healing
  
• 39.26% crit
  
• 74.21% surge
  
• 12.5% haste
  

 

Maximized Endurance

Expertise > Endurance > Cunning > Crit 350 > Power > Surge 300 > Alacrity

BiS:http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/character/0df47a4d-d3b4-4473-9edf-1ecb7fb97072

• 1396 Expertise
  
• 22355 hp
  
• +613.6 Bonus Healing
  
• 37.6% crit
  
• 74.25% surge
  
• 12.47% haste
  

 

So let's put those numbers into some context. If you go the defensive route, you gain roughly 3000 hit points, but give up +50 bonus healing and 2% crit. We can now directly compare the difference in healing output.

 

Let's assume two different healing models.

Model Alpha uses 2x SRMP, 2x UWM, and 3x EMP

Model Beta uses 4x SRMP, 1x Kolto Cloud and a Diagnostic Scan in there for good measure.

(Both of these model approximately 10 seconds of casting time.)

 

There's the average healing output for each model using the those above BiS stats:

• Healing Optimized: Alpha (22433) - Beta (29612)
  
• Endurance Optimized: Alpha (21105) - Beta (27822)
  
• Total Difference: Alpha (1328) - Beta (1790)

 

tl;dr

If you try and maximize endurance, you gain 3000 hitpoints but lose about ~150 healing per second (give or take).

 

My thoughts

If you're getting chased around by dps in a ranked warzone, those 3000 hit points are going to matter. You have 20 seconds of running around before the amount of healing that you've 'lost' through itemization overtakes your HP gains. One would hope that during that time, someone on your team would help you out with a heal or stun or something. If I have a marauder beating on me non-stop for more than 20 seconds, I've got greater problems.

 

In the long run, 150hp per second is significant. If you care about your total warzone healing numbers, this could matter to you. It's my theory, however, that in matches against skilled teams, those 3k hit points will probably serve you better. You're not healing at all while dead, and we're talking about gaining 15% total hit points in exchange for about 7% healing output.

 

Everyone is going to have a difference of opinion on stacking endurance over healing stats. Hopefully now we can at least continue this discussion with relevant data, rather than fairly arbitrary screenshots of warzone totals.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Azaranth

 

 

In the long run, 150hp per second is significant. If you care about your total warzone healing numbers, this could matter to you. It's my theory, however, that in matches against skilled teams, those 3k hit points will probably serve you better. You're not healing at all while dead, and we're talking about gaining 15% total hit points in exchange for about 7% healing output.

 

Everyone is going to have a difference of opinion on stacking endurance over healing stats. Hopefully now we can at least continue this discussion with relevant data, rather than fairly arbitrary screenshots of warzone totals.

 

 

If a group of organized dps wants you dead, youre dead. those extra 3k hitpoints (which only come down to 1k extra health in the 30% range which its all about) wont help you. Which is what it's about in my point. It's also about being able to actually save people rather than just hotting them with heals, which wont save anybody. I compared this type of healing to the Dirty fighting tree of scoundrels. Sure you do damage, but none of it matters.

And For the record, i dont spam UWM. I just use it somteimes, when other heals arent nessecary. When I have enough hots up and kolto cloud is on cooldown and i only have 1 or 2 stacks of EMP. Maybe that wasnt clear to people. I do almost exactly the same as my counterpart in this topic, i just throw extra UWM heals once a while when its nessecary, and dps arent on my tail at that moment.

 

And I don't agree with you. Against skilled teams you WILL die, extra 3 (actually 1)k hp or not. The extra 150hps is a ****ton lot. itll serve much better.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Aerilas

If a group of organized dps wants you dead, youre dead. those extra 3k hitpoints (which only come down to 1k extra health in the 30% range which its all about) wont help you. Which is what it's about in my point. It's also about being able to actually save people rather than just hotting them with heals, which wont save anybody.

 

If you have 15% more hit points, then you're going to live 15% longer. You can't simply dismiss something as "it's not gonna save you", because PVP is rarely that black or white. 15% extra hit points is significant. You've been in warzones and flashpoints with undergeared people who explode before you can land your heals on them. Don't try and argue that another 3k hp wouldn't make a difference.

 

Can we please have a discussion without broad sweeping generalizations? +3000 hp matters. 150 hp/s matters. Let's discuss which is more valuable in various scenarios, not try and label one as insignificant when it's clearly not.

Edited December 19, 2012 by Azaranth