My post above is about the level of posters who get shot down for their attitudes, not jSUN - their handful posts were thought-out and welcome, rather than the rant-inducing stupidity I was aiming at. Plus, the hostility is pretty much on BW's collective head for letting the situation stew as long as it has.

Just wanted to clarify that, while things are nice and calm. (See, BioWare? Clarification is a good thing.)

My post above is about the level of posters who get shot down for their attitudes, not jSUN - their handful posts were thought-out and welcome, rather than the rant-inducing stupidity I was aiming at. Plus, the hostility is pretty much on BW's collective head for letting the situation stew as long as it has.

 

Just wanted to clarify that, while things are nice and calm. (See, BioWare? Clarification is a good thing.)

Oh, I see. If people are reasonable, I am generally careful to shoot them down reasonably, answering their objections point for point. If they aren't reasonable but just abusive, I don't reply at all except by clicking that button on the upper right of their post.

8 hours maintenance tomorrow... has it been 5 weeks, or 6? (Can't find the old Patch note pages)

It will have been 5 weeks since 1.4 on Nov. 1.

No prob.

I am hoping it comes this week, in any case, as that makes it more likely to fit 1.6 in this year. And I hope that will be Makeb. I also hope Makeb will bring SGRs, finally.

No prob.

 

I am hoping it comes this week, in any case, as that makes it more likely to fit 1.6 in this year. And I hope that will be Makeb. I also hope Makeb will bring SGRs, finally.

Hope springs eternal (until I have one of those days, then Hope better watch itself).

Update: As promised, Sr. Producer Blaine Christine has taken time out of his crazy schedule to answer some of your Free-to-Play questions! We'll try to get some more soon, so keep asking!

Not sure whether that means they'll be answering questions already asked in the thread or only those asked after the answers that have been posted, but they've actually started to answer the questions about Free2Play.

I suppose it may be useful to ask the question in a more general manner of "content associated with Makeb" rather than specifying SGRA's, which of course Mr. Gonzalez and the rest of the Community Team aren't allowed to talk about.

Personally, I think it's time we walk out of this thread and talk about this just about anywhere else. We'll never hear anything, if we go on as we have.

 

Maybe I am being a bit precipitate. Between one thing and another I have no patience for this at all and am in a colossally bad mood. And since they won't discuss this here, let my hang out some laundry:

I'd suggest we take the other thread hook line and sinker, I mean, I am actually pleasantly surprised that the other thread is remaining open, that to me is a sign of good things and I think we should embrace it, I can understand your anger(I have shared that maaaaaaaaaany times over the past few years) but we want to look like the civilized and mature people we are, basically spamming the other sections will only garner more anger at us from neutral parties and will probably do more harm than good in the long run, we have an officially open thread in the busiest section, let's go with that.

Wow, I post a question and come back two days later and have 17 plus pages of replies, and arguments and have it closed all before I even bothered to check it again.

Had a couple of thoughts.

If the same-sex romance options are in the works, and it takes so much time to record dialogue for these options to be released in a timely manner, then why haven't these options been offered with the new content that was released? Should we assume that the dialogue had been pre-recorded and then post released as part of the update or patch? The question I'm left with is this, if you could record dialogue for the new updates then why can't you add in some romance options that would satisfy those looking for same-sex romance options?

On the side I fully understand not changing the story and dialogue after the fact, simply to add a gay/lesbian romance option. The story was made as is, and it works well, it would be a disrespect to the writers to change it all up simply to cater to something as superficial as a romance option. Another thing to keep in mind, is that it wouldn't be realistic to make everyone a potential "gay or lesbian" romance option. The fact is not everyone is actually gay or lesbian! Giving EVERY romance option a gay/lesbian possibility wouldn't be very realistic.

With that said, I don't think it would be unreasonable to add some same-sex options. We do have a somewhat sizable GLT gaming community as I understand it. One of the things I thought was brilliant about KOTOR 2, was the same sex romance option of Visas Marr, however this wasn't something overly hyped or over-played. It unfolded nicely, seemed plausible, and given the nature of her species and the nature of her connection with the Exile it seemed something that felt natural. Last thing we need in TOR is a series of poorly written forced same-sexrelationship scenarios for the sake of pleasing pushy players. When it's implemented let's hope Bioware make it seem plausible and well written. If we pressure them to pump something out, it may come out crappy.

ME

Good to see you here, Greg. Sorry your thread got locked, but thanks for it as it really was needed, in many ways, to bring attention to this content and attendant issues.

We were told last March that writers have a much longer lead time than we might expect, but that we could expect the same-gender romances that were omitted pre-launch for reasons of being short on both time and money to make it into the game this year.

That is pretty much the last we have heard of it, except when Principal Lead PvP Designer Gabe Amatangelo spoke of it during an interview at a convention in Germany last August, apparently not ever having been told not to discuss it. While he carefully explained that he wasn't really sure, as he was not part of that side of thing, he thought same-gender romance would be coming to the game with the new planet, Makeb.

He did not seem at all in doubt that the content was in fact being developed, however. And he didn't snicker or condescend but spoke of it quite soberly as content he knew was anticipated. And he also said it really is just a matter of getting it onto the schedule for release.

We've asked for official confirmation of those remarks in a thread that has been permitted to persist on General Discussion ("Did I hear this right?") but have had no response from BioWare.

We also have a list of long-running questions here that have also not been addressed. I'll be dusting those off again shortly and updating my list, as there are some I have been leaving out.

With that said, I don't think it would be unreasonable to add some same-sex options. We do have a somewhat sizable GLT gaming community as I understand it. One of the things I thought was brilliant about KOTOR 2, was the same sex romance option of Visas Marr, however this wasn't something overly hyped or over-played. It unfolded nicely, seemed plausible, and given the nature of her species and the nature of her connection with the Exile it seemed something that felt natural. Last thing we need in TOR is a series of poorly written forced same-sexrelationship scenarios for the sake of pleasing pushy players. When it's implemented let's hope Bioware make it seem plausible and well written. If we pressure them to pump something out, it may come out crappy.

ME

Welcome to the coalface, Greg. They're apparently remaining committed to what Reid said two Septembers ago, but that's all they're willing to tell us. (Deleted tweets notwithstanding.) On one hand the delay may mean they're doing it right; on the other, they still chose to scrap it for launch and remain silent on any of the questions we've asked.BioWare being BioWare, I'm sure it'll be well-done if it goes live, but this whole situation is why that's an if instead of a when at this point.

As an asexual, I don't even have a dog in this race beyond:

A. Fair's fair, keep your word.

B. In for a penny, in for a pound.

C. C'mon, it's a BioWare game.

This whole mess they've allowed to bubble away for so long still pisses me off, to considerable extent. I'm not surprised people like Moose gave up, in the face of such treatment.

I didn't even know there were two threads in General about it - since "Did I hear this right?" is such a non-indicative subject line. Might keep some of the less civil out, at least...

That thread is really only for asking Bioware about Mr. Amatengelo's answer to the interview question and isn't really about the finer points of same-sex romances, in spite of what people have decided to turn it into. Bioware has not answered any of our questions in this thread, but that's not through an inability to locate it (I make sure to PM a link to the thread to appropriate persons every week or so).

I didn't even know there were two threads in General about it - since "Did I hear this right?" is such a non-indicative subject line. Might keep some of the less civil out, at least...

I am virtually certain that is why it was allowed to persist, at least in part. Also to allow further exposure of Gabe Amatangelo's interview even if they are not at this time prepared to confirm it.

But I am still quite annoyed that the only people who are bringing together what has been said about same-gender content to the forums (where, I must point out, the Community Team has never posted any of this) are players who take the time to collect it, transcribe it and verify our sources to the best of our ability.

...with no support from BioWare's end, it being easier to close threads than to moderate them, unless they are hidden in the corner (like this one) or have a very neutral title and fly under the radar (like my thread, "Did I hear this right?")

I'll let Allison have another day to clear any reply to my response to her PM before I post that response here, since it seems anything they say needs to be approved by the Ministry of Information, or Invisible College, or Office of the Holy Inquisition or whoever they have to send stuff to.

And I am no longer as adamant about strictly confining discussion to the unconfirmed comments by Gabe as we seem to have CommunitySupport's figurative blessing to make it a wider discussion.

...

 

On the side I fully understand not changing the story and dialogue after the fact, simply to add a gay/lesbian romance option. The story was made as is, and it works well, it would be a disrespect to the writers to change it all up simply to cater to something as superficial as a romance option. Another thing to keep in mind, is that it wouldn't be realistic to make everyone a potential "gay or lesbian" romance option. The fact is not everyone is actually gay or lesbian! Giving EVERY romance option a gay/lesbian possibility wouldn't be very realistic.[/Quote]

 

Aye... but also to argue your statement, not everyone is straight or bisexual either. It would make sense to have at least one character per storyline to be bisexual or flat out gay.

 

This is my take on the two stories I've completed (or at least mostly completed)

SI:

Gay - Talos

Bisexual- the only female character SIs have... so

 

Imp Agent:

Bisexual- Vector and Ensign Raina Temple

(No, I'm not gonna go with the "everyone thinks Kaliyo is bisexual" I think she simply uses people to get what she wants and if she has to flirt or engage in a sexual act with a member of the same gender, she will... that doesn't neccesarily mean she enjoys doing it.)

 

With that said, I don't think it would be unreasonable to add some same-sex options. We do have a somewhat sizable GLT gaming community as I understand it. One of the things I thought was brilliant about KOTOR 2, was the same sex romance option of Visas Marr, however this wasn't something overly hyped or over-played. It unfolded nicely, seemed plausible, and given the nature of her species and the nature of her connection with the Exile it seemed something that felt natural. Last thing we need in TOR is a series of poorly written forced same-sexrelationship scenarios for the sake of pleasing pushy players. When it's implemented let's hope Bioware make it seem plausible and well written. If we pressure them to pump something out, it may come out crappy.

 

ME

 

Yeah. I liked that fact about Visas, though I never really played through as a female Exile... even after I discovered canon stated her female. It was just odd to me at the time, that plus my mom freaks out if she discovers I play female characters (though I'm not quite sure why... but I do have a few female characters in both TOR and WoW now ). I agree with you about the poorly written romances, which is one of the reasons they stated about us not having it at Launch. They don't want to simply adjust scripts and revoice a she/he to the opposite, which I think is awesome. We'll get an entirely different story, much like with Anders in Dragon Age II (though I must confess I've never actually played an Anders romance, I've just heard about a male Hawke with Anders makes him confess his first was Karl, the mage you are sent to rescue by Anders).

But I'll share an email I sent:

Subject: Non-inform​ation of Same Gender Content

 

[My actual name] [my email addy]@gmail.com

 

6:48 PM (2 minutes ago)

to communitysupport@swtor.com

 

Why has no one at BioWare Austin addressed questions regarding pending same-gender companion romance in Star Wars: the Old Republic on the community forums since launch?

That's it. My whole message.

Betting on the following as my reply:

Thank you for contacting us regarding same gender romance story arcs in Star Wars™:The Old Republic™.

 

We understand that this topic is one that''s very important to many of our community members, and we appreciate you contacting us for clarification.

 

Due to the design constraints of a fully voiced MMO of this scale and size, many choices had to be made as to the launch and post-launch feature set. Same gender romances with companion characters in Star Wars™:The Old Republic™ will be a post-launch feature. Because The Old Republic is an MMO, the game will live on through content expansions which allow us to include content and features that could not be included at launch, including the addition of more companion characters who will have additional romance options.

 

We at BioWare and Star Wars™:The Old Republic™ appreciate all our fans, and are proud to have such a diverse and tolerant community. Should you require assistance with any other issues, please do not hesitate to contact us again.

 

Galactic Support is our specialty…

<delurks>

You've got to be kidding me...the boilerplate announcement? REALLY?????? :eek:

Bantha Poo. How in Hades is anyone supposed to take these threads seriously when it really seems BioWare won't?

I know, it's a rhetorical question, but I'm officially ticked off.

Going back to lurking before I blow my top.

Very embarrassed edit: I didn't realize that the expected answer, not the current answer.

So sorry about that.

Visas Marr was a same sex romance? What? Since when? I'm sure I don't remember that. First, Saying that there were any fully developed romances at all in kotor 2 is kind of a stretch. Second, her most romantic lines are all Male Exile exclusive aren't they? Female Exiles always get Disciple in her place from what I remember.

I thought the only same sex romance was Juhani.

<delurks for the final time today>

I put this in the "Did I hear this right?" thread, but I thought it would apply here as well.

I find it funny as Hades that some posters tell us to get a life...yet they spent a lot of time in this thread. For a feature that will part of the game and not dropped. We're just asking for clarification on a feature that was promised over a year ago.

I don't see why that's different from, say, the Secret Space Project people have been asking for for the better part of a year. I certainly wouldn't go into that thread and tell them, "Oh, X Y and Z need to come in first. Really, stop asking for more information. It's only for a few minutes of space combat anyways. You guys are obsessing over this. Only a tiny fraction of the player base is asking for this."

Instead of ignoring the thread, as an angry person should, they come in here and tell us that's a waste of time, to give up. We're wanting some information. Some are coming in to simply troll.

Who needs a life now?

PS: I found this quote related to spending in an MMO. Kudos to whomever said it:

The development cost for The Old Rebuplic, is a sunk capital investment and is not part of profit analysis of an ongoing operation like an MMO. They sunk the cost over time (the years of development) and depreciated it and wrote most of it off as a tax decuction at the EA level. It does not factor into operations cost or profit margins or profit contribution at all.

But I'll share an email I sent:

 

 

 

That's it. My whole message.

 

Betting on the following as my reply:

You know, should Mr. Gonzalez or Ms. Berryman respond to your requests for information with a "thank you, we read the thread" reply, send them that

I kind of plan to, except they hate me enough already to not respond to me.

Visas Marr was a same sex romance? What? Since when? I'm sure I don't remember that. First, Saying that there were any fully developed romances at all in kotor 2 is kind of a stretch. Second, her most romantic lines are all Male Exile exclusive aren't they? Female Exiles always get Disciple in her place from what I remember.

 

I thought the only same sex romance was Juhani.

It wasn't exactly an official romance, but she showed signs of being bisexual when she wanted to "see the Exile". I always really considered it more of a romantic bond than anything else.

And no. Visas comes either way. Brianna the Handmaiden was Male Exile only. Visas was the Sith Miraluka who joined you in order to overthrow Nihilus.

<delurks for the final time today>

 

I put this in the "Did I hear this right?" thread, but I thought it would apply here as well.

 

I find it funny as Hades that some posters tell us to get a life...yet they spent a lot of time in this thread. For a feature that will part of the game and not dropped. We're just asking for clarification on a feature that was promised over a year ago.

 

I don't see why that's different from, say, the Secret Space Project people have been asking for for the better part of a year. I certainly wouldn't go into that thread and tell them, "Oh, X Y and Z need to come in first. Really, stop asking for more information. It's only for a few minutes of space combat anyways. You guys are obsessing over this. Only a tiny fraction of the player base is asking for this."

 

Instead of ignoring the thread, as a person should, they come in and tell us that's a waste of time, to give up. We're wanting some information. Some are coming in to simply troll.

 

Who needs a life now?

That's totally different, because it interests them - thus, they'll suddenly remember "it's impossible to please everyone all of the time." And then promptly forget that again when this topic comes up .

I'd hope they're not stupid enough to think 800,000 people (or whatever the subscription numbers are) can reach consensus on anything beyond "Air's the most useful thing to breathe" - which leaves the possibility they're trolls. Both hurt my faith in people, for differing reasons.

It wasn't exactly an official romance, but she showed signs of being bisexual when she wanted to "see the Exile". I always really considered it more of a romantic bond than anything else.

 

And no. Visas comes either way. Brianna the Handmaiden was Male Exile only. Visas was the Sith Miraluka who joined you in order to overthrow Nihilus.

No, what I meant was Visas's most romantic lines are spoken only to a male exile. Right before the Exile confronts Nihilus one of the companions comes to talk to them about what the Jedi Masters and Kreia said about them. For males Visas says something about how "From the moment I heard your voice across the galaxy, I have longed for you. And she actually mentions that she loves you more than her own life. With females I don't believe she ever says that she loves her to her.

I was pretty certain Female Exiles always get a shorter version with Mical coming to them instead.

I'll admit it's been a very long time since I've played Kotor 2. But I distinctly remember my female playthough feeling much less engaging than a male PC's storyline in part for exactly that reason.