I'm impressed that you were able to come up with a plausible explanation for the Empire's strategy on Taris. However, it seems to me that the Empire would actually want the Republic colony to stay on Taris as long as possible, throwing away lives and resources on a planet that isn't going to be more than a gaping wound for centuries, if ever. Sure, the Empire would want to make sure that the Republic couldn't use it as a forward base, as you and Highborne point out. However, the colonization efforts don't seem to be helping with that--quite the opposite, in fact.

That's a plausible strategy when open warfare hasn't really broken out - i.e. during the actual Cold War phase of the game, aka "Chapter I". But with the onset of that open warfare, even an unsecured Taris becomes a dagger pointed right at the heart of Sith Space. The whole planet doesn't need to be under firm Republic control for the base in the Tularan Marsh to form the foundation of a logistical support network. So, yes, the Taris project had value for the Empire in that it represented an open sore for the Republic, but when the Cold War turned hot, that value was overtaken by the clear and present danger it presented to Imperial security.

The infrastructure thing does affect everything. True, the actual settlement mostly isn't made up of stuff that an enemy force couldn't otherwise find. Shelter is abundant on a planet that's basically just a ruined ecumenopolis. But Olaris is home to a major spaceport facility, which could easily be repurposed for military uses (and, in fact, is, during the last part of the Imp planet quest on Taris, when the Republic attempts to use it to bring reinforcements in). The Tarisian settlements are also full of military installations consisting of both field fortifications and prepared defenses, both of which ought to be torn down with extreme violence. The Republic also managed to get at least two reactors up and running, was working on water purification, and even had a rudimentary hydroelectric plant under construction. All of those have legitimate military uses.

In the actual fanfic, I added other reasons. Drawing on the somewhat disparate nature of Imperial involvement on Taris - a brace of Sith and Imperial forces (Lord Vago and Moff Hurdenn, for instance) that seemingly operate autonomously from Darth Gravus' ostensible supreme command - I drew out a narrative that had the Imperial attack on Taris operating as a sort of least-common-denominator target. Satisfying various interest groups was easiest if they were brought together to participate in the Tarisian invasion - some for purely military reasons, some for bloodlust, some for the usual arcane Sith 'research', some in order to assassinate/capture some key Republic generals, etc.

It tied into the usual Imperial mess of quasi-feudal "personal politics" that way. The Nazi empire was built on a set of mutually contradictory, internally antagonistic competing authorities, bureaucracies, and interest groups that only managed a unified effort in something when they were "working toward the Führer". But the Sith Empire's version of Hitler is not really present at all; he's ensconced away on his space station and doesn't even come into contact with the most powerful of the Sith, let alone the vast network of Imperial officials. So the Sith - who are even more internally fractured than the Hitlerites, since they have an unusual propensity for fighting civil wars and engaging in intricate, arcane intrigues - have to engage in a more, um, "primitive" form of consensus-building, if that makes any sense. And the attack on Taris was part and parcel of that: grand strategic decision making by the worst possible sort of committee, undertaken in large part because of internal political reasons, not just the military ones.

It's kind of like how the American Congress only embarked on the War of 1812 because it was a sort of least common denominator. The only way that President Madison could maintain support among his own Cabinet and in the legislature was by uniting the disparate parts of the Republican Party under a platform of war and not much else. Otherwise, the party was almost certain to fracture, and badly, divided into a bewildering array of antagonistic factions like the War Hawks, the Old Republicans, and the Quids. He'd face opposition from his Secretary of State, Monroe, and from figures in the military administration, such as William Eustis, John Armstrong, and John Wilkinson. The only thing that the Republicans were able to (mostly) agree on was war against Britain. (I could come up with more obscure historical comparisons, like the Zhifeng Wars of warlord-era China, but I think you get the idea. )

However, I find the whole gift mechanic so silly that I treat it as a pure OOC game element that stands in for the time you're presumably spending with companions offscreen. Gifts made some sense in Dragon Age, where companions liked you better after you gave them one or two items with special meaning to them, but giving someone the same item over and over to gain affection just seems ridiculous to me.

I don't mind the gift mechanic. It's an option you have to raise your companion's affection and get to know them. I doubt you can realistically max all 5 peeps affection's without using gifts. There's only so many missions (Belsavis' dailies don't count, because if giving over and over the same gift doesn't make sense, neither does doing the exact same mission over and over ) and you can have only 1 companion present. And that assuming your character choices are liked by them.

I adore Elara Dorne for my trooper, but her being kind of rude and brusque, made lots of conversations during missions a small step back, or just no affection gain at all with Elara. One does not simply disregards "You're all useless!" voiced by Jennifer Hale.

I think companions convos/missions should be only "triggered" by your progression on your main story. The affection thing doesn't really work here. It should have been just a gameplay mechanic to improve their effectivenes on crew missions and the legacy presence bonus once they get to 10k

Assigned... because the Empire conquered it in its earlier unprovoked attack and the Republic was unable to retake it at the time. I'm reasonably sure the population is quite happy when the Republic liberates it later on.

And? I may remind you that for the decade between the Treaty of Coruscant and the start of SW:TOR, the Republic was continuously feeding troops, supplies and intel to the resistance in direct violation of the Treaty of Coruscant.

It's not like the Republic has its hands all that much cleaner than the Empire does, especially when you consider what they want to do

The duke isn't so bad, but there are no fewer than three missions I found to cover up Thul's apparently long list of atrocities. One involving stealing a holocron, a bonus mission inside Alte's library to delete files on Thul (Inquisitor-only), and one dealing with the rogue Rist assassins giving information to Ulgo.

Mmhmm. As to the first and second, I assume that I'm to be held accountable for the crimes of my ancestors also? Because that's what those missions are about, as I recall - various persons have dug up dirt on Thul's pre-exile activities, and want to use it to embarrass the present leadership of the House. As to the third, Rist has the goods on everyone - yes, even the oh-so-noble Organas haven't been above hiring assassins from time to time, it appears.

So, I ask again: what differentiates today's House Thul from today's House Organa? Charle Organa is a decent, compassionate leader to be sure - and Jorad Thul is both weaker of character and less noble. But the average aristocrat? Looks much the same on either side - backbiting, intrigue, corruption, abuse of those below them in station....there's a reason that a lot of lesser Houses are staying neutral, rather than aligning with House Organa. The only real difference between the bulk of the two Houses is who's backing them.

But why not simply conquer Taris and build it up as an Imperial world? Why do you have to go out of your way to wreck the planet?

Three reasons. First, resources - even after the terms imposed on the Republic in the Treaty of Coruscant, the simple fact is that the Republic is bigger, more heavily populated and far, far richer than the Empire in terms of aggregate resources. The expense of the reconstruction was enough to cause serious strain on the Republic's budgets - what do you think it'd do to the Empire's?

Second, because the Empire - unlike the Republic - places no particular value on Taris. Absent the Republic presence, it's a semi-toxic dump - no resources, not a particularly advantageous location (unless you plan to attack the Empire, but we're talking about the Imperial perspective here), hostile wildlife, ruins teetering overhead and to all sides.....it's an idea that promises vast expenses and little return. For the Republic, its astrography is much more valuable, the symbolic value cannot be overstated and the Republic's greater level of aggregate resources means that it has to commit a small percentage of its budget to the reconstruction than the Empire would.

It makes sense for the Republic to rebuild Taris. The Empire? Not so much.

Third, if they simply push the Republic out of Taris without destroying the infrastructure, what's stopping a pirate band, group of smugglers or renewed (covert) Republic presence from setting up there? Unless the Empire plans to commit a garrison to permanent occupation (which ties down troops for no gain at all), the only practical option for them is to blow Olaris sky-high and make sure the Republic has to rebuild from scratch if it does decide to return.

No, destroying Taris altogether makes perfect sense from the Empire's perspective. Any other choice is, frankly, a losing choice.

I'm impressed that you were able to come up with a plausible explanation for the Empire's strategy on Taris. However, it seems to me that the Empire would actually want the Republic colony to stay on Taris as long as possible, throwing away lives and resources on a planet that isn't going to be more than a gaping wound for centuries, if ever. Sure, the Empire would want to make sure that the Republic couldn't use it as a forward base, as you and Highborne point out. However, the colonization efforts don't seem to be helping with that--quite the opposite, in fact.

Like I believe I said, check out the Imperial bonus string on Taris.

The Republic's been hard at work....

And? I may remind you that for the decade between the Treaty of Coruscant and the start of SW:TOR, the Republic was continuously feeding troops, supplies and intel to the resistance in direct violation of the Treaty of Coruscant.

 

It's not like the Republic has its hands all that much cleaner than the Empire does, especially when you consider what they want to do

with the Barrager (ie use it against the Empire, even at the expense of all life on Balmorra)

 

Frankly, I find it very hard to see this as immoral when Balmorra was the Republic's planet to begin with and the population seems to prefer it that way. You don't get to be indignant about alleged treaty violations when you started the war and more or less forced said treaty at swordpoint.

Mmhmm. As to the first and second, I assume that I'm to be held accountable for the crimes of my ancestors also? Because that's what those missions are about, as I recall - various persons have dug up dirt on Thul's pre-exile activities, and want to use it to embarrass the present leadership of the House. As to the third, Rist has the goods on everyone - yes, even the oh-so-noble Organas haven't been above hiring assassins from time to time, it appears.

 

So, I ask again: what differentiates today's House Thul from today's House Organa? Charle Organa is a decent, compassionate leader to be sure - and Jorad Thul is both weaker of character and less noble. But the average aristocrat? Looks much the same on either side - backbiting, intrigue, corruption, abuse of those below them in station....there's a reason that a lot of lesser Houses are staying neutral, rather than aligning with House Organa. The only real difference between the bulk of the two Houses is who's backing them.

This might be a personal peeve of mine, in that I greatly dislike the destruction of information in any form. I know that Thul isn't all evil, but the presentation may have made it worse.

Three reasons. First, resources - even after the terms imposed on the Republic in the Treaty of Coruscant, the simple fact is that the Republic is bigger, more heavily populated and far, far richer than the Empire in terms of aggregate resources. The expense of the reconstruction was enough to cause serious strain on the Republic's budgets - what do you think it'd do to the Empire's?

 

Second, because the Empire - unlike the Republic - places no particular value on Taris. Absent the Republic presence, it's a semi-toxic dump - no resources, not a particularly advantageous location (unless you plan to attack the Empire, but we're talking about the Imperial perspective here), hostile wildlife, ruins teetering overhead and to all sides.....it's an idea that promises vast expenses and little return. For the Republic, its astrography is much more valuable, the symbolic value cannot be overstated and the Republic's greater level of aggregate resources means that it has to commit a small percentage of its budget to the reconstruction than the Empire would.

 

It makes sense for the Republic to rebuild Taris. The Empire? Not so much.

 

Third, if they simply push the Republic out of Taris without destroying the infrastructure, what's stopping a pirate band, group of smugglers or renewed (covert) Republic presence from setting up there? Unless the Empire plans to commit a garrison to permanent occupation (which ties down troops for no gain at all), the only practical option for them is to blow Olaris sky-high and make sure the Republic has to rebuild from scratch if it does decide to return.

 

No, destroying Taris altogether makes perfect sense from the Empire's perspective. Any other choice is, frankly, a losing choice.

Understandable, I suppose.

I wish I could be more indignant about that plot to infect the kolto tanks in the ruined hospital with the rakghoul virus... but the questgiver is just so respectful and enthusiastic.

That's a plausible strategy when open warfare hasn't really broken out - i.e. during the actual Cold War phase of the game, aka "Chapter I". But with the onset of that open warfare, even an unsecured Taris becomes a dagger pointed right at the heart of Sith Space.

Wow--thanks for that very detailed response (and thanks to Highborne, too)! I admit that I generally just take the quest-givers' explanations at face value, but that's a very reasonable take on the Empire's Taris strategy. I look forward to reading your fanfic once I've finished my own Sith Warrior playthrough.

I don't mind the gift mechanic. It's an option you have to raise your companion's affection and get to know them. I doubt you can realistically max all 5 peeps affection's without using gifts.

Oh, I don't mind it, I just treat it as an OOC game mechanic, like sending my companions out on the same gathering missions over and over.

There's only so many missions (Belsavis' dailies don't count, because if giving over and over the same gift doesn't make sense, neither does doing the exact same mission over and over )

Yeah, even though I've been playing SWTOR long enough that I have my Founder title, the idea of running the same mission over and over with the same character still doesn't feel right to me. I'm afraid I'm really a single-player gamer at heart.

I adore Elara Dorne for my trooper, but her being kind of rude and brusque, made lots of conversations during missions a small step back, or just no affection gain at all with Elara. One does not simply disregards "You're all useless!" voiced by Jennifer Hale.

My trooper was a complete goody-two-shoes, so I sadly missed out on a lot of Jennifer Hale's awesome Renegade-style line readings. But Dorne would definitely be my first choice for a female SGR.

I think companions convos/missions should be only "triggered" by your progression on your main story. The affection thing doesn't really work here. It should have been just a gameplay mechanic to improve their effectivenes on crew missions and the legacy presence bonus once they get to 10k

I agree with this 100%.

With the introduction (and subsequent benching) of Class Representatives, let's play a game of:

Hypothetical Scenario!

If Bioware: Austin introduced a representative scheme for Story Content (divided into the Class Stories, Planetary Stories and Companion/Romance) Content, what three questions would we ask for Romance Content?

Here's my three:

1) SGRA (that is a question in and of itself, let's be honest)

2) Why the necessity to pander to the Straight Male Gamer demographic with regards to the distribution of straight-female [Flirt]s and Romance options being significantly less than straight-male [Flirt]s and Romance options?

3) Why the necessity to make every female NPC who is SGR-flirtable also available to straight-male PCs? That is - why the existence of only bisexual women, versus there being only one(two? BBA twi'lek) gay man.

Continue! Let's see how many Questions That Will Never Be Answered Or Acknowledged As Existing we can get

With the introduction (and subsequent benching) of Class Representatives, let's play a game of:

 

Hypothetical Scenario!

 

If Bioware: Austin introduced a representative scheme for Story Content (divided into the Class Stories, Planetary Stories and Companion/Romance) Content, what three questions would we ask for Romance Content?

 

Here's my three:

1) SGRA (that is a question in and of itself, let's be honest)

2) Why the necessity to pander to the Straight Male Gamer demographic with regards to the distribution of straight-female [Flirt]s and Romance options being significantly less than straight-male [Flirt]s and Romance options?

3) Why the necessity to make every female NPC who is SGR-flirtable also available to straight-male PCs? That is - why the existence of only bisexual women, versus there being only one(two? BBA twi'lek) gay man.

 

Continue! Let's see how many Questions That Will Never Be Answered Or Acknowledged As Existing we can get

Well, I might point out that in the Czerka framing story Imperial side the Czerka representative is a lesbian. Female can romance her, males cannot. She's the only lesbian in the galaxy so far, but she's a start at least.

Would these questions just be for the SGR thread community, or would they be for all companion/romance janx?

Because, if the latter, having all three questions related in some way to SGR seems more than a little over the top. We're not the game's only constituency.

Well, I might point out that in the Czerka framing story Imperial side the Czerka representative is a lesbian. Female can romance her, males cannot. She's the only lesbian in the galaxy so far, but she's a start at least.

Male characters actually can romance her. I thought she was a lesbian, too, but somebody corrected me earlier in this thread.

Well, I might point out that in the Czerka framing story Imperial side the Czerka representative is a lesbian. Female can romance her, males cannot. She's the only lesbian in the galaxy so far, but she's a start at least.

No. I had the option to [Flirt] with her on my very gay, male Imperial Agent.

Would these questions just be for the SGR thread community, or would they be for all companion/romance janx?

I thought I'd made the second and third questions not indistinctly linked to SGR/A content - the second question specifically targets the imbalance that already exists between available [Flirt] options (it merely specifies sexuality for the sake of clarity and refers largely to 1-50 content) and the second one is framed more for being a stepping stone to address the misogyny that many have noticed in Bioware's approach to romance and flirting in the game. I guess I wasn't clear enough.

And, yeah, the sub-sections would be available to members of those associated communities, like Shadows and Assassins get three separate questions, Class Stories and Companion/Romance, though linked, would get separate questions, because we've had romances not tied to Class Story (Makeb) and Companions not part of Class Story.

It's funny because on my bounty hunter, Adidia, It seems almost inevitable that she and Mako would get together, and even strange to think they wouldn't. I set it up that she is absolutely heartless to everyone, except Mako. She can kill people in front of their kids, refuse to help desperate people, make fun of disenfranchised people, and hold a gun in the face of someone who looked at her funny but if mako wants anything at all it's hers, and if she wanted to disrupt important business for anything even going to the bathroom Adidia would smile and let her.

I'd kinda like to see that blossom into something more than my HEAVILY implied romantic interest in her. I could see Adidia as a nurturing gf calming Mako down after a tough fight sharing her secrets and killing anyone who would dare look at her mako with hatred. It'd be really cute in a dark sort of way.

Kira's also a good match for my innocent niave twi'lek jedi. A bit of an opposites attract but I always felt a hidden deep longing there. Kinda a "I tease you because I love you" thing. It'd be the reverse of Adidia.

Well, they have made it clear Class stories are dead - not much point asking about those.

And with it, every single other aspect of story, because why keep the writers around when they're not doing much?

Frankly I'm surprised Musco hasn't come in here and told us all to piss off.

Frankly, I find it very hard to see this as immoral when Balmorra was the Republic's planet to begin with and the population seems to prefer it that way. You don't get to be indignant about alleged treaty violations when you started the war and more or less forced said treaty at swordpoint.

 

.

Happens all the time in real life. For whatever reason the treaty was signed, it ended the war. The Republic, by breaking the treaty, are restarting the war. So, yes. The Empire DOES get to be indignant, unless you discover that they were breaking the treaty themselves at some points (as I am sure they were), then all bets are off.

And with it, every single other aspect of story, because why keep the writers around when they're not doing much?

 

Frankly I'm surprised Musco hasn't come in here and told us all to piss off.

That would be a Joveth move... Musco doesn't seem to be a *****.

That would be a Joveth move... Musco doesn't seem to be a *****.

Nah, he just ignores us.

And to demonstrate just how much, I've promised to PM him everyday about SGRAs Which reminds me, I need to find a website full of pictures of attractive people...

Well, they have made it clear Class stories are dead - not much point asking about those.

....and there goes the single biggest thing differentiating SWTOR from any other generic MMO out there.

Looks like they plan to ride the Star Wars label really, really hard in order to make profits, rather than actually putting time and thought into developing good followup stories.

Well, I might point out that in the Czerka framing story Imperial side the Czerka representative is a lesbian. Female can romance her, males cannot. She's the only lesbian in the galaxy so far, but she's a start at least.

My Male Merc had no problem romancing her. But on Makeb on the imperial Side, isn't the female intelligence officer you work with only romancable by females? I'm asking because my female chars are all still on hold and when I played with a male char, I had a flirt option for the first conversation via comm, but later only the male Sith had flirt options in my conversations with him.

My Male Merc had no problem romancing her. But on Makeb on the imperial Side, isn't the female intelligence officer you work with only romancable by females? I'm asking because my female chars are all still on hold and when I played with a male char, I had a flirt option for the first conversation via comm, but later only the male Sith had flirt options in my conversations with him.

Nope - there are no lesbians in Bioware: Austin's world (because women shouldn't exist unless they can pleasure men, apparently). You get the one [Flirt] with Katha Niar (and she was Minister if Logistics and Black Ops, neither of which were associated with the - now defunct - Imperial Intelligence) but she rebuffs you - that is also a (straight) male PC [Flirt].

So a year has come and gone, and still no same gender romance even though it was promised to the player base "shorty after launch". And no, same gender flirts are not even remotely going to stop the call for same gender ROMANCE, notice romance is a different word then flirt. I don't want pointless, half *** content where I flirt with someone who means nothing to me and adds no growth to my character.

Straight players get companions (and not just 1 mind you, they have a plethora of 21 options) to help flush out their characters world. I would not settle for anything less then what they get, multiple companions of varying personalities, and looks. And don't give your player base the crap about how "hard it is" to add this content. It's been more then a year now, either your employing the most incompetent developers, or your flat out avoiding the content. Guess that would make it easier for you though, to keep saying "we will add it" but in fact have no intention to ever add the content.

It would take all of 2 hours to make it so that the existing companions whom straight players can romance, could be added so that gay players could also. The crap about not wanting to "simply have the same dialog for straight/gay romance" is beyond cop-out, because if you were so interested in providing quality same gender dialog, it would have been done ages ago.

Again nothing short of MULTIPLE same gender companions will suffice, because we all know TOR will likely try to cop-out by making a single companion undoubtedly female and call it a day. And if they do make a M/M romance, how much you wanna bet the companion will not even be human. Doc, Corso, Theran, Iresso, Malavi, Pierce...THESE or new companions like them are the types of same gender romance that I will accept.