So you're solution is to match their disrespect with some of your own?

 

When I recognize someone doesn't know what's going on, I take the imitative and tell them. Usually they are appreciative and follow the advise.

Usually they call me 'nub' and call vote kicks. How dare I criticize a master-overlord tank or a lord-of-life-and-death healer?

Look Op... I know it can be frustrating... we have all been there at some point but you are only making matters worse. Now... I'm not being a Pollyanna here. These are people you may not want to group with again, but nevertheless these players will pay it forward. Their experience will impact the game even if it is at a lesser extent. So... take the opportunity to make things better.

Repairs... yea... a pain in the arsenal to be sure, but creds aren't a huge deal once you are well geared at 50. There many ways to make quick creds. It's no excuse to ninja gear.

The noob group? My preference is to teach. Hopefully they will listen and most do. Just show them what needs to be done and how. Trust me, most really appreciate it. Personally, on a few occasions, the players have paid my repair bill and then some by sending me creds after the flashpoint. But even if they don't, they will learn the fp, and usually they will take a cue from you to do the same thing you did should they run into an noob group later.

And... if you don't have the creds for repairs or the patience in that instance? Just drop. Much better to do that, save creds and avoid another needless argument over gear you don't need.

The thing that I remember is the first time I ran HMs... this was a while ago when comms runs were not common practice. I remember that, yes... it was hard back then and team work was essential. And it was a great feeling when you managed to get it all done. That is what I want to pay forward... for all of those who helped me when I was a noob trying to figure things out.

Who is the jerk in the first place? Someone without a prior knowledge of the hard mode flashpoint (without even going through normal). They're not even wearing appropriate gear, despite being given it for free, they don't communicate and tend to be super-mean after any kind of criticism. This is most disrespectful and I find it reasonable for OP to want to punish them.

Then you vote kick or leave yourself. You do not continue the run in hopes things get better at the same time taking gear out of spite.

Then you vote kick or leave yourself. You do not continue the run in hopes things get better at the same time taking gear out of spite.

Of course I'll vote kick.

Look Op... I know it can be frustrating... we have all been there at some point but you are only making matters worse. Now... I'm not being a Pollyanna here. These are people you may not want to group with again, but nevertheless these players will pay it forward. Their experience will impact the game even if it is at a lesser extent. So... take the opportunity to make things better.

 

Repairs... yea... a pain in the arsenal to be sure, but creds aren't a huge deal once you are well geared at 50. There many ways to make quick creds. It's no excuse to ninja gear.

 

The noob group? My preference is to teach. Hopefully they will listen and most do. Just show them what needs to be done and how. Trust me, most really appreciate it. Personally, on a few occasions, the players have paid my repair bill and then some by sending me creds after the flashpoint. But even if they don't, they will learn the fp, and usually they will take a cue from you to do the same thing you did should they run into an noob group later.

 

And... if you don't have the creds for repairs or the patience in that instance? Just drop. Much better to do that, save creds and avoid another needless argument over gear you don't need.

 

The thing that I remember is the first time I ran HMs... this was a while ago when comms runs were not common practice. I remember that, yes... it was hard back then and team work was essential. And it was a great feeling when you managed to get it all done. That is what I want to pay forward... for all of those who helped me when I was a noob trying to figure things out.

your 100 percent right, but I never drop out as the time invested in the fp is not worth it to me. Those you agree to be teached and act mature, I wont need at the end, but the jerks that refuse to change their ways or do not learn from what I said earlier, I will need.

I sympathize with OPs statement.

Why? The OP used the LFG tool and CHOSE to PUG a flashpoint.

When you choose to PUG you get randomly placed in groups with people who have all kinds of random variables, including gear and experience.

When you choose to PUG you end up being placed in groups that you have no control over. Why sympathize with the OP at that point? It's just making a bad situation worse.

I am glad to see the majority here denounce what the OP wrote. Some of us, albeit level 50's, just didn't run HM FP's all that much. So, for us "noobs" we're trying, we really are. I thought the goal was to have fun, not become professional HM FP runners. Maybe I'm wrong.

Well the OP is completely out to lunch on the NEED junk.

But so are you

If you dont know the fights and are not willing to say this at the start of the flashpoint so people can lead you through, your just as much the problem as the OP.

You dont need to run HMs, run SM if you dont know the fights and basics.

The goal is to have fun and people with no clue who protray themselves as experienced at the expense of the group ruin that fun.

Case in point: 2 days ago I had 2 vastly different encounted PUGing in DPS for Lost Island Hard Mode

Encounter 1: We load in and I notice the DPS we get has 16k health. So I look at gear and hes in 50 blue crafted, some tionesse, some recruit. Myself and guildies are talking to each other on Voice chat about taking this guy with us when he pipes up...

"Hey all, this is my first ever run of Lost Island"

I respond "You really think you should be doing your first LI run under geared and on hard mode?"

he responds "If we wipe I'll drop but please give me a chance, I can play my class well"

So we decide to give him a chance as he was upfront, honest, and promised to listen

Long story short the guy was a dream to run with. We explained each fight, he spoke up if something wasnt clear so we could clarify. NO WIPES, NO DRAMA, awsome awsome run. And he got his Rakata chest for his efforts.

Fast forward to later that night,

Encounter #2: Im using my hard mode ops Sage healer and we running LI HM again, and again grabing 2 DPS this time. We get 2 Shadows in a mix of 56 and 58 gear.

Perfect we think but to make sure we ask "Everyone here done this before?"

Both respond "yup yup, old pros at LI"

So we move on and everything ok till we hit Boss droid

Guildy (tank) starts up fight and runs out to grab droid and pull him back to outside.

Sure enough one of the Shadows runs out on the grids and starts hammering droid while Tank is trying to establish argo. Sure enough the person (who from now on will be refered to as moronic idiot) gets targetted with the Lightning bubble and sure enough he drops it on the grates BLOCKING THE CORNER tank is heading to.

WIPE #1

So I speak up that bubbles have to be dropped behind group and towards wall and should NEVER be dropped on the grates.

Sure enough Moronic idiot does it again

This time we barely pull it off finishing droid after it enrages

Moronic Idiot starts to congrat himself since no one else was

So we get to next boss and this time I ask "does everyone know this fight? Do you need it explained"

Again was answered with "Old hats at LI, this will be easy"

So we start fight and boss does his chest bang (which is queue to stack on him), well moronic idiot doesnt stack and goes off platform. Which of course is followed by him blaming it all on lag and his internet

WIPE #2

Next he runs off platform running to his terminal

WIPE #3

Next he runs to wrong terminal 3 times

WIPE #4

Next he stands in center with me and doesnt even try to get to terminal which of course means Boss never comes down and spits us to death

WIPE #5

Gotta admit I seething with anger at this stage and announce I cant heal us through this if that moronic idiot (I used his name rather then title) cant do simple mechanics. This will be last run for me if we wipe.

Again we hit enrage (seriously, how can 2 shadows with rakata double bladed Lightsabers put out less DPS then a off tank Vanguard and Scoundrel using tionesse weapon (thats what we had for DPS in previous group) but we win as two of us die.

So Moronic Idiot decides to loot rather then rez

I get rez from guildy and say out loud "wow what a crappy no class move, looting before you rez your team mates"

To which moronic idiot replies "what? You got to roll, who cares?"

He must have seen how bad that look because after a few seconds of group silence he followed up with "I was trying to rez you 2 but the body was in the way" (which was a bold faced lie as both myself and DPS were on other side of platform from where the boss died.

So guildy says " you should target from your group window, not click on dead bodies"

to which moronic idiot replies "WOW, I didnt know you could do that"

Im so ready to drop this moronic idiot but guildy convinces me to stick it out, one more Boss and done.

So again I ask "everyone know this fight? Stay behind him, stay outta pools, dps the tanks after he vanishes?"

and again got "yup yup, np at all"

So as you probably guessed moronic idiot was dead before we reached first tank as he had 15 stacks on him and wasnt behind Lorrik so took every single missile hit.

So this time I dont ask, I explain the fight to every little detail possible before we go forward.

We win the next round but I had to clense 47 stacks off moronic idiot because he would just stand in the pools oblivious to everything around him and then had to use rescue to get him to sheild at end cause again he just stood there oblivious.

A counsular rakata chest dropped (go figure, was group of 3 shadows and a sage), 3 of us rolled greed and moronic idiot waited for those rolls and then hit in with a Need. Utterly classless move and a sure fired way to get added to my ignore list instantly.

After fight, after saying multiple times this was old hat to him and he was experienced he pipes up

"Thanks all, this was my first ever LI run"

I thanked the other DPS who was far more gracious then moronic idiot could ever be and the put moronic idiot on ignore so I NEVER have to group with him again.

So if you read all that, I pose this question.

How is that suppose to be fun for anyone?

I didnt steal the loot (moronic idiot did though)

Why should anyone have to put up with that type of player?

Worst experience ever in LI HM and that includes the hours and hours I spent with few friends wiping over and over while getting hm down to Farm mode.

So if you dont know the FP, LEARN IT ON SM or ask at the start to be taught.

Some will leave you when you ask cause they pay subs to and its not their job to teach PUGs the Flash Point.

Others how ever will give you a chance if you just are honest and listen from the get go.

Got NOTHING AT ALL to do with proffessional HM runners and everything to do with showing the other PUG members some respect.

your 100 percent right, but I never drop out as the time invested in the fp is not worth it to me. Those you agree to be teached and act mature, I wont need at the end, but the jerks that refuse to change their ways or do not learn from what I said earlier, I will need.

I don't believe you in any capacity. Anyone that even has that mentality will cheat any other player at any other time they deem fit and for whatever reason they can make sense in there on tiny little brains.

Of course my opinion of you carries little weight on the internet but I highly doubt you are some marter in group runs knowing your vindictive stance against other players.

OK OP....

So, if they're under-geared and you're fully geared, how do you expect them to ever get fully geared if you're going to be a dooshbhag and need the gear that is probably one of the reasons they were doing the instance in the first place?

I sure hope you don't work for NASA, because you're obviously no rocket scientist.

This weekend was the first time I had a bunch of people who were under-geared and without knowledge of the fights. Some people still do not know about the free gear for pvp and pve and people, especially tanks who dont know the fights never say I am new, yet their actions clearly show me they are new and I ask them. Only after a few wipes do people admit to being new.

 

Because of this I feel to need on the loot at the end to cover the expense of the repair bill I have waiting for me because of others not knowing the fights, unnecessary pulls, tanking in dps gear etc. Most people do these are over geared and know the fights and just want fast comm runs.

 

Anyone else feel the urge to take their loot and move on? Getting put on their ignore list helps keep mine clear and I dont have to worry about grouping with them again.

 

Win - Win

Sounds like you found a way to justify it to yourself when you need on things that you shouldn't. Nobody is guaranteed complete success when entering the group finder. To think that you are owed complete success is laughable at best. Would you pull that garbage with your guild?

Nope. That's absurdly harsh. Plus if you're so uber-experienced in these things, you should have credits pouring out all your orifices and thus not need the gear to cover repairs.

How about asking if anyone's new to the place or anyone needs to know the mechanics before starting? Maybe even with a blurb that speaking up is better than wasting time and credits wiping because you didn't speak up?

This weekend was the first time I had a bunch of people who were under-geared and without knowledge of the fights. Some people still do not know about the free gear for pvp and pve and people, especially tanks who dont know the fights never say I am new, yet their actions clearly show me they are new and I ask them. Only after a few wipes do people admit to being new.

 

Because of this I feel to need on the loot at the end to cover the expense of the repair bill I have waiting for me because of others not knowing the fights, unnecessary pulls, tanking in dps gear etc. Most people do these are over geared and know the fights and just want fast comm runs.

 

Anyone else feel the urge to take their loot and move on? Getting put on their ignore list helps keep mine clear and I dont have to worry about grouping with them again.

 

Win - Win

How about you ask people if they are new to the fight before starting, and then explaining it to them as you go on? Seeing as you are so experienced and all that. Needing on loot they can use to improve themselves is the most selfish thing you could possibly do.

OK OP....

So, if they're under-geared and you're fully geared, how do you expect them to ever get fully geared if you're going to be a dooshbhag and need the gear that is probably one of the reasons they were doing the instance in the first place?

 

I sure hope you don't work for NASA, because you're obviously no rocket scientist.

Thats cause he doesn't actually care at all.

I get his poorly worded argument for players to follow the path of progression. Many players want other players to do that but the nature of how he stated most of his posts only proves how vindictive he is when he feels slighted for whatever reason. Cause a wipe - oh you'll pay dearly for that. Didn't listen to me. - Oh your in trouble now!

In turn he will make them pay in some way or another and the easiest for him is greeding on gear he does not need. Probably seconded by making sure they die by refusing to tank or heal as he should for the run to be a success but one way or another - Someone is going to suffer.

No, because that's a total ******e thing to do. Just because someone messed up doesn't give you an excuse to be a douchebag.

This is spot on. In fact, I'd blame you for the losses for not being a better leader beforehand and explaining the fights. They were OBVIOUSLY new...you have no right to treat them like you did. New players are what keep MMOs going, not elitist vets who feel they're better than everyone else.

Thats cause he doesn't actually care at all.

 

I get his poorly worded argument for players to follow the path of progression. Many players want other players to do that but the nature of how he stated most of his posts only proves how vindictive he is when he feels slighted for whatever reason. Cause a wipe - oh you'll pay dearly for that. Didn't listen to me. - Oh your in trouble now!

 

In turn he will make them pay in some way or another and the easiest for him is greeding on gear he does not need. Probably seconded by making sure they die by refusing to tank or heal as he should for the run to be a success but one way or another - Someone is going to suffer.

Good analysis...scary tbh.

If someone's new to a FP I'll eat repair bills and spend as much time helping as I can, as long as they're straight about it and want to work with the team to learn.

Players that won't reply that they're new or that want to be solo performers are screwing over their team for selfish reasons. Personally I VK or drop, but couldn't care less if someone else wants to screw them back and recoup some creds.

your 100 percent right, but I never drop out as the time invested in the fp is not worth it to me. Those you agree to be teached and act mature, I wont need at the end, but the jerks that refuse to change their ways or do not learn from what I said earlier, I will need.

Yea... I get that there is a jerk factor in there sometimes. Some peeps refuse to listen because they think they know something about the fights, MMOs, etc. But generally, I'd rather not deal with the jerks for long. If things get too out of hand, I cut my losses and drop. Yes, time may have been lost, but... I'm in no rush.

I got in an argument once with a tank on strategy during Maelstrom. I suggested LOS as he was getting one shot. He gave me a MMO resume and told me to shut up. Lol! Ok... so while he lay dead, we managed the boss and finished the fight. Not a peep from that dude after that. Sometimes experience is the only teacher.

This weekend was the first time I had a bunch of people who were under-geared and without knowledge of the fights. Some people still do not know about the free gear for pvp and pve and people, especially tanks who dont know the fights never say I am new, yet their actions clearly show me they are new and I ask them. Only after a few wipes do people admit to being new.

 

Because of this I feel to need on the loot at the end to cover the expense of the repair bill I have waiting for me because of others not knowing the fights, unnecessary pulls, tanking in dps gear etc. Most people do these are over geared and know the fights and just want fast comm runs.

 

Anyone else feel the urge to take their loot and move on? Getting put on their ignore list helps keep mine clear and I dont have to worry about grouping with them again.

 

Win - Win

That is probably the dumbest thing to do. How are they supposed to learn if you never group with them?

And how are they supposed to be geared when you steal their loot?

It's like a teacher would take away the school books from a kid because he don't know anything instead of helping the kid and giving him the right books so he one day can learn.

I'm sorry but I can't do anything but facepalm to this. Without a doubt the dumbest thing I have read this year.

@OP: I didn't even look at any other posts besides your own, but I find what you're doing to be extremely rude. If you don't think the group can finish, then leave the dungeon. Even if they're causing the wipes you either leave or be cordial. But taking their gear is rude.

Btw, just to give some background on my toon - there's nothing I need from any FP - not even for my comps. And there's been a few times where we wipe more than just once or twice and those repair costs start adding up. But it's my choice whether to leave or stay. I certainly won't be rude and snag the gear from someone at the end that I can make up for in 10 minutes by doing a daily mission.

This weekend was the first time I had a bunch of people who were under-geared and without knowledge of the fights. Some people still do not know about the free gear for pvp and pve and people, especially tanks who dont know the fights never say I am new, yet their actions clearly show me they are new and I ask them. Only after a few wipes do people admit to being new.

 

Because of this I feel to need on the loot at the end to cover the expense of the repair bill I have waiting for me because of others not knowing the fights, unnecessary pulls, tanking in dps gear etc. Most people do these are over geared and know the fights and just want fast comm runs.

 

Anyone else feel the urge to take their loot and move on? Getting put on their ignore list helps keep mine clear and I dont have to worry about grouping with them again.

 

Win - Win

While I disagree with putting people on ignore or taking their loot because they don't know the FP's, I do understand a bit of the frustration. I don't mind people being new, everyone is at some point. But not saying anything because you're afraid of looking new or looking stupid is much worse in my mind than just owning up to it especially for tanks and somewhat for healers who absolutely need to know the fights to be effective.

...the nature of how he stated most of his posts only proves how vindictive he is when he feels slighted for whatever reason. Cause a wipe - oh you'll pay dearly for that. Didn't listen to me. - Oh your in trouble now!

 

In turn he will make them pay in some way or another and the easiest for him is greeding on gear he does not need. Probably seconded by making sure they die by refusing to tank or heal as he should for the run to be a success but one way or another - Someone is going to suffer.

I have to agree with you Quraswren, and from reading his "story" I can honestly say he strikes me as one of those "people" that greed on everything any way just to be an ***.

Wow Kalfear that sucks. I've had some really bag groups but I think that tops any of my stories.

LOL, I seem to have the worst luck with PUGs

Couple days ago got Kaon on my Bounty Hunter

So we have a tank who does a straight run to turret rather then clearing out the surrounding area

So we get over run (to be expected)

So one of the DPSer noticed the tank wasnt really hitting many Rakghouls so suggested he work the turret and tank taunt and kill around it.

So we start fight and no word of a lie, The tank stands next to turret and doesnt attack a single rakghoul for the entire battle

That group broke up after that as tank simply wouldnt listen or taunt.

Yesterday another Kaon PUG on Imp side.

One of the DPSers got mad we WOULD NOT use the new wall exploit so refused to take part in the fights if we didnt do it her way.

LOL but the cake goes to the PUG I had for Battle of Ilum on Rep side

Now I have 4 50 healers, a Sage, a Commando, a smuggler, and a Bounty Hunter. My Sage and Commando are both geared and experienced to do hard mode EC/TFB and below.

So I take over for a healer that quit group (always a bad omen I find)

So the Tank has 16 k health and clearly shouldnt be doing hms but what ever, I got a good healer here so maybe ill make the difference

So we try and tank is torn apart so fast I literally cant target the DPS with anything more the Kolto cloud aoe.

Now anyone thats played a BH or Commando as a healer knows they only have a certain amount of big heals before heat/ammo is a issue. We off set that by using hammer shot while in med mode.

So anyways this tank couldnt handle the fights and I was building up so much heat so fast healing him I had to utilize hammer shot to best of ability.

After 3rd wipe tank looks at me and says,

"You know, if you stopped useing hammer shot so much and started to use your single target heals we might make it through here"

LOL, I dropped that group immediately as im sure any sane healer would.

I find alot of people like to blame elitists for everything and yes, elitists are annoying as all beat up.

But I dare say elitists in PVE or PVP make up like 10% of the over all player pool, if that.

Many of the issues I read from those claiming to be picked on seem to be self inflicted issues.

OP is out to lunch with the loot stealing stuff but so are many of the responders who say "just ask me if im experienced".

Its not up to other people to to ask them anything.

No one needs to hold their hands for them.

LOL, they remind me of this kid I new years ago who liked to think every one was out to get him.

One day he slept in for work

his boss called to wake him up and kid went back to sleep after he hung up

Next day kid asking why hes been fired

Hes told because he didnt show up for shift even though they called him

you know what he said to them

(this is no lie, heard it myself when it was said)

"yes but you didnt talk to me to make sure I was up. You need to talk to me till Im awake"

LOL, thats honestly how these "You need to teach me and show me" posters come off as to me.

Ill teach some days, others im not in mood.

But no where does it say I have to teach them.

Go load up story mode and learn for yourself.

Hard modes are for advanced players

Like Ranked PVP is for advanced pvpers

That is probably the dumbest thing to do. How are they supposed to learn if you never group with them?

And how are they supposed to be geared when you steal their loot?

 

It's like a teacher would take away the school books from a kid because he don't know anything instead of helping the kid and giving him the right books so he one day can learn.

Some like to take loot they can´t use and then complain in the next instance that others are undergeared.

I feel sorry for those players, I really do they have no clue how to build friendship

So you need on items that could potentially pick the HM up had the noob in need of obtained that item(s) in the first place...

Yea, makes perfect sense