lineschmidt Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 And the war on utility continues... Someday I might understand why MMO players hate utility so much and are so happy only being able to do one narrow little thing. Because it's bad when only 1 class gets it all mmmkay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuldar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Because it's bad when only 1 class gets it all mmmkay? I don't see any class that "gets it all". Maybe Sorcs/Sages get more slices of the pie than other classes, but only one slice more than some in my opinion, and even then not a big slice more. Mercs/Commandos are very close behind in general utility, I'd say. Part of the problem is that the balance picture differs between PvP and PvE. For example, Ops/Scoundrels were nerfed for PvP imbalance despite not having any great PvE advantage. I think Sorcs/Sages and Mercs/Commandos are a touch better other classes in PvE but not necessarily overpowered in PvP for those that properly deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesiser Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I don't see any class that "gets it all". Maybe Sorcs/Sages get more slices of the pie than other classes, but only one slice more than some in my opinion, and even then not a big slice more. Mercs/Commandos are very close behind in general utility, I'd say. . I fail to see how mercs/commandos are "very close behind in general utility" than a sorc/sage. A sage has a 4 second stun, an aoe knockback, a 4 sec interrupt on 12 sec cd, a 10 sec cc that breaks on dmg on a 60 sec cd (pvp), their channeled spell also snares, and they can throw insta bubbles on other people. A merc has a 4 sec stun, aoe knockback, and a 10 sec cc that breaks on dmg on a 60 sec cd an their channeled spell snares but where the sage snare starts as soon as they hit the button, the trooper version takes 1.5 seconds to start the snare. And last but certainly not least, they don't have an interrupt where as every single advanced class, even the other advance class you can choose for a trooper/bh has one. It looks to me like a sage/sorc utility is light years beyond the merc/trooper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skuldar Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I fail to see how mercs/commandos are "very close behind in general utility" than a sorc/sage. A sage has a 4 second stun, an aoe knockback, a 4 sec interrupt on 12 sec cd, a 10 sec cc that breaks on dmg on a 60 sec cd (pvp), their channeled spell also snares, and they can throw insta bubbles on other people. A merc has a 4 sec stun, aoe knockback, and a 10 sec cc that breaks on dmg on a 60 sec cd an their channeled spell snares but where the sage snare starts as soon as they hit the button, the trooper version takes 1.5 seconds to start the snare. And last but certainly not least, they don't have an interrupt where as every single advanced class, even the other advance class you can choose for a trooper/bh has one. It looks to me like a sage/sorc utility is light years beyond the merc/trooper. I was only speaking about PvE utility. Sorry that I didn't make that clear. Where you see a disparity between CC, I see two classes both with a 60 second CC usable in combat so I give them equal scores on that count. I see one with light armor and interrupts, one with heavy armor and no interrupts, so to me that balances. I see both with spammable DPS if specced for it. I see both with heals. Sorc/Sage bubble is certainly better, but that's the small slice I referred to, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
genesiser Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Well I don't know where you got that 12 hits calculation from but I can tell you from playing both that the bubble is not as great in reality as it looks like on paper. If the sage dmg reduction is at 16% a 2k hit will hit for ~1724 If the trooper dmg reduction is at 28% (we are talking about dps trooper, not tank) then a 2k hit will hit for ~1562 A difference of ~162 dmg per hit. A bubble absorbs around 2.5k dmg if talented for it in the middle tree. For the trooper to have the same "damage absorbed" with their extra 12% dmg reduction, it would take ~15 hits of ~162 dmg reduction per hit to equal the amount absorbed by the bubble. In other words, what I'm getting at is yes, while your bubble absorbs a little over 1 hit, the extra 12% dmg reduction basically lets a merc take 1 more hit than the sage if the sage did not use his bubble. This whole notion that's out there that mercs can take a much bigger beating than sages because of their heavy armor is actually false because their ~12% less dmg taken only means about 162 less dmg per hit taken if people are hitting for 2k a shot. Edited January 27, 2012 by genesiser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Sorcs/Sages are squishy. That's why they have all that utility. They need it to balance how vulnerable they are. For instance, Mercs have much of the same utility and have heavy armor, but they lack interrupts. hnnnn how is posible that the knowback and heavy armor of merc are the same utility that the sorc have? merc utility: knowback heavy armor(10 % less damage than sorc) stun sorc utility: OP shield(9k with the good spec) knowback more root combat rezz sumon to friend sprint stun mezz more stun 35 meters on main skill where merc have 30(this is a huge advantage) interrupt sorry but sages must be toned down at the same time that Operatives,the sprint must be only for asasin,the shield only for heals amd the combat rezz only for heal also Edited January 28, 2012 by prochuvi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Because it's bad when only 1 class gets it all mmmkay? Lots of classes in this game have utility, not just sages and sorcs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutalcabbage Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 How can you even tell balance at this point with how many terrible players populate the game? I have yet to play a game with a worse playerbase, skillwise. I take it you didn't play WoW? holy crap to me PC games in general have the largest crappy player base in pvp. They have a nice small% of elite players too, but waaaaay more crappy players. I don't mean just skill I mean situational awareness and total lack of gaming knowledge of strategies. It boggles my mind really and they queue for WZs over and over and over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karenai Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 hnnnn how is posible that the knowback and heavy armor of merc are the same utility that the sorc have? merc utility: knowback heavy armor(10 % less damage than sorc) stun sorc utility: OP shield(9k with the good spec) knowback more root combat rezz sumon to friend sprint stun mezz more stun 35 meters on main skill where merc have 30(this is a huge advantage) interrupt sorry but sages must be toned down at the same time that Operatives,the sprint must be only for asasin,the shield only for heals amd the combat rezz only for heal also Show me how to shield that famous 9k all the time. My shield holds 2,5k if I am lucky. Show me one instance of Sages combat rezzing in warzones (we are talking about pvp you know) "sumon to friend"? what? the? what are you smoking? 35m range? what are you smoking? My pebbels are always 30m and that's after skillng. btw all those who complain about sage/sorc shield: everyone has it on them, if you do not, your sorc/sage mates are to blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Hatine Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) I kill Sages and Sorcerers left and right with my Assassin and Juggernaut. I don't see the overpowered class people speak of. Only class I have consistent trouble with is the Scoundrel and Operative if I'm hit with the knock down/ stun opener in which by the time the stun is up I'm either dead or at around 9% health in which one attack will kill me. Also I have trouble with the trooper class because if I don't get the first hit on them I'm probably gonna lose due to their high damage output and very good damage reduction. Note: oddly enough for some reason I don't have the same trouble with the bounty hunter players. Edited January 28, 2012 by Darth_Hatine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhorzo Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 btw all those who complain about sage/sorc shield: everyone has it on them, if you do not, your sorc/sage mates are to blame. This is an intelligent but often overlooked point. EVERYONE should have a shield on them. If you don't, blame the sorcerer/sage on your team, not the class itself. There is no restriction in the game that says bubbles are only for sorcerers... they're available to every single person on your team. (There's always the chance your team has no sorcerer... but let's be realistic... I've NEVER seen a match like that. Ever.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prochuvi Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Show me how to shield that famous 9k all the time. My shield holds 2,5k if I am lucky. Show me one instance of Sages combat rezzing in warzones (we are talking about pvp you know) "sumon to friend"? what? the? what are you smoking? 35m range? what are you smoking? My pebbels are always 30m and that's after skillng. btw all those who complain about sage/sorc shield: everyone has it on them, if you do not, your sorc/sage mates are to blame. 1- if u are bad it isnt my fault,geared sages with talents have 9k shields 2- if u arent seeing to sages combatrezzings in warzones is becasue u havent done premades. 3-http://www.torhead.com/ability/6zrUfW5/rescue (rescue skill)im sorry but or you are trolling or u havent a sage 4- talent mind eye on telekines spec for 5 extra range im sorry but if i know more about your class that yourself when i havent it.......i think that i know then because u say that merc with 3 utilitys have the same that sages with 9! utilitys plz tell us again that sages have the same utility that merc so i can educate you again Edited January 28, 2012 by prochuvi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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