Well OP, I can tell by your tone that you are not interested in what others have to say about the spec. You are clearly to mad about it to be reasonable.

So I leave this thread with....I think you are dead wrong, and no Sin/Shadow is not my main.

The spec/class is fine.

Except no one is stealing anything.

Classes are pitted against each other. 23/1/17 is NOT more powerfull than MANY classes and specs. Its on par. There are classes they would beat and classes that would beat them.

Its odd to say maras/sents, other assassins, snipers, and PTs are more powerful but that the hybrid assassin needs a nerf.

There are many classes with on par damage and survivability so it seems odd to single out assassins/shadows.

May we ask what class you are fighting them WITH? That you think they are OP?

Well OP, I can tell by your tone that you are not interested in what others have to say about the spec. You are clearly to mad about it to be reasonable.

 

So I leave this thread with....I think you are dead wrong, and no Sin/Shadow is not my main.

 

The spec/class is fine.

Of course I am, or I would not have made the thread. If I wasn't interested, I wouldn't bother replying.

Except no one is stealing anything.

 

Classes are pitted against each other. 23/1/17 is NOT more powerfull than MANY classes and specs. Its on par. There are classes they would beat and classes that would beat them.

 

Its odd to say maras/sents, other assassins, snipers, and PTs are more powerful but that the hybrid assassin needs a nerf.

 

There are many classes with on par damage and survivability so it seems odd to single out assassins/shadows.

 

May we ask what class you are fighting them WITH? That you think they are OP?

It was an example. Classes are balanced around eachother, not against eachother.

I was refering to the fact that it does a lot more damage than the other 2 tank specs, without sacrificing much. Stop going to extremes, it helps nothing.

I'm a Shadow who played Tank (real Tank, with Tank gear and a 33/0/8 spec) for a long time.

I won't deny that we have more damage, and in my opinion it's too much for a Tank. BUT the way the Tanking Stats work now make us the least resistant one, because it makes Tanks so much dependent of their damage reduction and Shadows have a mitigation which is not so different from a DPS (Kinetic specced = 37% Infiltration specced = up to 31%). As a result, the real Tank spec is barely balanced.

So you can nerf the hybrids, nerf the emphasis on damage we have for a tank, but if you don't change the Tanking mechanics at the same time, Shadow tanks (real ones) will definitely disappear.

Explain the difference between being balanced around or against. Cuz I was under the impression that in pvp you fight AGAINST other players.

Its not op. In the least.

Explain the difference between being balanced around or against. Cuz I was under the impression that in pvp you fight AGAINST other players.

 

Its not op. In the least.

PvP is orientated towards group play and so is the class balance. So classes aren't just balanced against one another, ie a 1vs1. It's balanced in a group setting, where stuff like taughts, heals, friendly and enemy pulls are mixed into the equation. MMOs also tend to try and avoid rock-paper-scissors balance as this is fustrating, so you aren't balanced around killing 1 specific class, but rather around the effectiveness of you in a group.

Except Merc, I have no idea what that is balanced around.

PvP is orientated towards group play and so is the class balance. So classes aren't just balanced against one another, ie a 1vs1. It's balanced in a group setting, where stuff like taughts, heals, friendly and enemy pulls are mixed into the equation. MMOs also tend to try and avoid rock-paper-scissors balance as this is fustrating, so you aren't balanced around killing 1 specific class, but rather around the effectiveness of you in a group.

 

Except Merc, I have no idea what that is balanced around.

Agreed. I really hate when anyone brings 1v1 into any balance discussion. The only way to balance is to do so around group play. Having said that, I feel that when they did the last nerf they did it completely backwards in terms of I was thinking damage would be nerfed and a little more armor would be given.

I have played a shadow for a while and the 23/1/17 spec is not overpowered in the least

Anyways what prompts the reply is I think I was playing against some against some Top Hatin guild last night in PVP on The Red Eclipse, not sure if that was your guild? (Just saw the signature) And if it was what prompted this but if it was the shadow you were fighting was full tank spec 31/0/10 and yes in tank gear.

PS Not having a go or anything or wanting to start a flame, it was just in case so that the discussion could be about the correct spec.

I have played a shadow for a while and the 23/1/17 spec is not overpowered in the least

 

Anyways what prompts the reply is I think I was playing against some against some Top Hatin guild last night in PVP on The Red Eclipse, not sure if that was your guild? (Just saw the signature) And if it was what prompted this but if it was the shadow you were fighting was full tank spec 31/0/10 and yes in tank gear.

 

PS Not having a go or anything or wanting to start a flame, it was just in case so that the discussion could be about the correct spec.

Yeah, that's our guild, we've just hit 50 on TRE so we're hardly geared there, but we've been getting some good matches and a few where we've been absolutely destroyed.

In relation to your post, it was not that match (was it that Alderaan?) that prompt'd this, nor any match on that server. But more based on my TOFN toon after 40 or so warzones.

i was going to jump into the discussion

but then i said "meh"

so i say "hi"

i was going to jump into the discussion

but then i said "meh"

so i say "hi"

Groncho!

Noyou dweezill

Get out

Please tell us your spec, so we can help you out.

Yes and can someone please post the 0/27/14 spec for pvp? I would like to try it. Been running the tank/dps hybrid for awhile now.

Nerf it now.

it doesnt need to be nerfed any more thasn it alrdy is... if they do theat your just gonna see more deception shadows and then your gonna be all like "nerf the whole class" nerfing tank hybrids anymore than they are throws the shadow AC outta balance....

Might i ask what class your playing?

Yes and can someone please post the 0/27/14 spec for pvp? I would like to try it. Been running the tank/dps hybrid for awhile now.

0/27/14(Infil/Balance DPS hybrid) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#0-c8cf780kf-8830f

0/27/14(Infil/Balance DPS hybrid) http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/Shadow#0-c8cf780kf-8830f

Great. Thank you!

only thing 23/1/17 is good for is to ninja cap/pull + interrupt caps... you won't kill anything (unless a badie or drunk).

tank spec got nerfed big time, and if you still can't kill it.. then well... I won't be rude.

0/27/14 has far more power, but prodobly to many buttons for some people to use it's full potencial.

Even full tank is better then 23/1/17 in case of kill/death ratio.

But what do I know...

Why compare the spec to Marauders/Sentinels?

The problem of the Shadow 23/1/17 hybrid is that it does significantly more damage than either of the other two tank specs while having only slightly worse survivability than a Guardian and better than a Vanguard (as that is primarily a shield tank, lacking defensive CDs).

In a regular warzone if there's no Smasher or Pyrotech (unlikely but it happens) a well-played Shadow hybrid can put up better numbers than anyone. No Defense/Vigilance hybrid will do that, even in DPS gear. And tank gear doesn't help a lot...

So yeah, compared to the other two tank specs the 23/1/17 is OP (you can argue that they are somewhat worse healer guards than Guardians as that is true but the difference isn't really that big as the difference in damage output). It's also far more useful and effective than some of the DPS specs (Vigilance, Concealment, Telekinetic, Gunnery, Balance Sage, even Dirty Fighting).