I like your idea for a new class but this. Every class has their own primary stat and adding a new stat would be more preferred to me.

This issue was discussed pretty heavily early on in the thread (in fact, I think it was one of the first "this idea is awesome but you should change this" comments). My point has regularly been that adding a new stat to a game is pretty much *always* more effort than it's worth: you have to create and itemize an entirely new set of gear from 1-50, add the stat to *everyone* while determining what the standard effect of said new primary stat happens to be (look at Cunning and Aim for Force users: it still applies the effects to Tech and ranged abilities because those are the *standard* function) and adding a new standard effect for a primary attribute is going to be difficult: all of the attack types are already covered as well as companion improvement. It's not like there's some uncovered ground as far as this is concerned.

Now, something that I *have* been mulling over is making it so that the classes have *2* primary attributes: Cunning and Strength, similar to how HK-51 has Aim and Cunning both as primary stats. It would mean that all medium armor would be applicable and useful, as well as those annoying Cunning pieces with tank stats on them, while distributing the competition across a larger number of people, limiting the impact. Yes, it would mean that there would be more options available to this class, but I think that's an acceptable compromise, since it provides an interesting construct for the class itself. It also lends itself to the idea that Echani is a mental discipline as it is a physical discipline.

It also allows me to apply the same design to the *other* class I'm working on with the other 2 primary stats (Willpower and Aim), which actually works out quite a bit better for some of the split themes I've been working towards...

Neat idea. but why not give it a Tech Staff if its a tech class? that would be a neat use for Tech Staves.

Tech Staves are, by default, Aim weapons. I wouldn't be adverse to them being an option for the Fencer/Gladiator (similar to how a Sage can use a Vibroblade rather than Lightsaber if they want to swap out the mods or a Shadow can use an Electrostaff), but I would still want the Double Vibroblade to be there as the "default" weapon (since it's so intuitively tied to the Echani backstory).

This issue was discussed pretty heavily early on in the thread (in fact, I think it was one of the first "this idea is awesome but you should change this" comments). My point has regularly been that adding a new stat to a game is pretty much *always* more effort than it's worth: you have to create and itemize an entirely new set of gear from 1-50, add the stat to *everyone* while determining what the standard effect of said new primary stat happens to be (look at Cunning and Aim for Force users: it still applies the effects to Tech and ranged abilities because those are the *standard* function) and adding a new standard effect for a primary attribute is going to be difficult: all of the attack types are already covered as well as companion improvement. It's not like there's some uncovered ground as far as this is concerned.

 

Now, something that I *have* been mulling over is making it so that the classes have *2* primary attributes: Cunning and Strength, similar to how HK-51 has Aim and Cunning both as primary stats. It would mean that all medium armor would be applicable and useful, as well as those annoying Cunning pieces with tank stats on them, while distributing the competition across a larger number of people, limiting the impact. Yes, it would mean that there would be more options available to this class, but I think that's an acceptable compromise, since it provides an interesting construct for the class itself. It also lends itself to the idea that Echani is a mental discipline as it is a physical discipline.

 

It also allows me to apply the same design to the *other* class I'm working on with the other 2 primary stats (Willpower and Aim), which actually works out quite a bit better for some of the split themes I've been working towards...

Sorry didn't read through the comments just the OP(s). And yeah I see where that makes sense. Anyways good post I hope devs see it and maybe take action based off your ideas.

Sooo...with the throat strike...would the character have to jump in the air just to reach a human throat, since it seems like they are shorter than hobbits? lol.

Great idea. But if you can choose the race...how would they look, how would the animations look if one is a guardian?

Sooo...with the throat strike...would the character have to jump in the air just to reach a human throat, since it seems like they are shorter than hobbits?

 

Great idea. But if you can choose the race...how would they look, how would the animations look if one is a guardian?

It's not a race. It's a class (hence the new "class idea" thing, not "race idea"). You can't be a Guardian because you're choosing to be an Infighter/Fencer ("Echani" is like the "Jedi" or "Sith" for those classes; i.e. Jedi Guardian v. Guardian, Sith Juggernaut v. Juggernaut, Echani Infighter v. Infighter). Even if it *were* a race, the Echani are actually slightly *taller* than the average human.

I'm not even sure where you got your information from since it's wrong on pretty much *every* level...

What if they introduce a whole new set of four classes by introducing a new faction.

New faction almost always add a *lot* more problems than they're worth. The biggest concern, which isn't even a lore one, is that it splits the player base into 3 distinct sections rather than 2. It thins the population that players can interact with, which is *really* not good. Plus, a new faction would require a *lot* more development time, since you're not just talking about a new expansion, you're talking about a new *game* since you've got to create an entirely new slew of planets, zones on existing shared planets, missions for that faction (since you can't get cross-faction missions), etc. It's just not worth it. Were it not for the desire for open world PvP and interfaction strife in lore, I'm pretty sure that it would be effective to go with the most efficient (if a bit boring) way to set up a game with only a single faction so you that you can maximize inter-player interaction and minimize required developmental effort by maximizing shared resources.

Basically, it's very unlikely since it would do bad things to the community while requiring a *lot* of development, moreso even than a full expansion (rather than the "half" expansion that RotHC was).

This new faction could be made up of the Echani, alien gray Force Users like the Jawas, Mandalorian dissidents that think the new Mandalore is just an imperial puppet, Hutt gangster, etc.[/indent]

 

The Echani (as a race or collection of planets) are explicitly part of the Republic. They fought in the Mandalorian Wars as generals and soldiers, right alongside the Jedi. They had representation within the Republic. You'd have to come up with a damned good reason for them to *leave* the Republic (which I'm not even sure is possible without some sort of major secession movement, like what happened in the prequel trilogy; unless you're Corellia of course, because Corellia is Corellia and does what it wants and no one can do a damned thing about it).

 

Jawas, on the other hands, aren't going to be made into a playable race mainly because they use nonstandard skeletons and have next to no appreciable customization options (*every* Jawa would be tiny and have a robe that obscures their face). They also don't speak Basic. The basic requirements of a playable race that can be implemented without a *lot* of messing around with the game are that it must fit with *all* existing skeletons (body types 1-4 for male and female; no multiple arms or strangely placed heads since those modify the skeleton), uses the same gear slots as every other race (which excludes droids since droids have a unique gear slot set up), speak Basic (so that there isn't a separate racial voiceover), and have visible gear modification (so that, as you get change gear, your appearance changes more than tangentially, which is why we won't get wookiees as a playable race).

 

As to Grey Jedi, they're *technically* still part of the order. Grey Jedis, within this time frame, aren't a separatist movement from the Order and, honestly, they never really are. At most, you'll have some minor non-Jedi *sects* of force aware people that follow a "grey" construct but the Grey Jedi exist more as a variant philosophy within the Jedi Order itself rather than a unique faction. Also, you can already play a Grey or Dark Jedi in game with LS and DS points. The Republic isn't the "light side" faction any more than the Sith are the "dark side" faction. They have *tendencies*, but it's by no means defining.

 

The closest you could get to your idea would be Force Adepts, who are force users that exist outside of the Jedi/Sith Orders with their own, often unique or variant, powers. The second class attached to this class idea is actually based off of the Force Adept construct (though, for the pet AC, I go with beast empathy rather than mechanokinesis or machine empathy). I've kind of stalled because of lack of interest in it, but I might finish it off just for completion's sake one of these days.

 

we still have two major factions, one light and one dark.

 

The factions aren't "light" and "dark". You are not forced to be dark side in the Empire, nor are you forced to be light side in the Republic. In fact, the *canon* storyline is *always* the light side option, by command of the SW license holders. Any Dark Side choices you make are, for all intents and purposes, just "What ifs".

 

Adding a third faction that's trying to remain neutral doesn't really work for a *player* faction. Player's are *decisive* and that doesn't work with remaining neutral. Neutral factions that each side has to woo (or specifically chooses to remain neutral for whatever reason) are more appropriate for groups that players *deal with*. Neutral parties avoid conflict and players pretty much *live* to join conflicts so as to force their actions into resolving the conflict. Unless there were a 3-way war, it just wouldn't really work out (and adding a third faction to TOR would make *no* sense in the story).

Love the idea, the mechanics for the ACs are thorough, but seem to leave significant room for..PvP breaking; specifically Air spec fencer/gladiator. Sounds as though it could very easily turn out to be the "what if" that everyone considers regarding a twisted combination of combat sentinels(canrage marauders) and infiltration shadows(deception assassins). Not saying anything solid on it, just a consideration you may want to keep.

Also, you may want to consider turning Intuition into a stackable buff type of resource (much like fury/centering); it would allow a spec or AC to have an easily extendable resource to define it over the others. Again, just a thought.

So you want a monk class. Great ideas, but its been done before.

Having said that the story was good, BW could do a lot worse, and probably will when/if they come out with a new class.

What we really need is a Mezzer class, I want some power regen.

I always thought the sith necromancer would be a cool class. Maybe something like the jedi general for the matching class on the pubs side.

I'm actually working on another class that will have Sith Alchemist as one of the ACs, with Beastmaster as the other. Alchemist uses mutated monstrosities whereas Beastmaster uses incredibly powerful and loyal natural creatures (I keep debating whether I want the top of the Beastmaster unique DPS tree to be a Rancor...).

I'm actually working on another class that will have Sith Alchemist as one of the ACs, with Beastmaster as the other. Alchemist uses mutated monstrosities whereas Beastmaster uses incredibly powerful and loyal natural creatures (I keep debating whether I want the top of the Beastmaster unique DPS tree to be a Rancor...).

I really like the idea of alchemists and beast masters. i also notiiced that there is space on most orbital stations for two more class locked docking bays too, so hopefully we'll see a new class in the next 2 years. would really like to see how yuo would do up the alchemist/beastmaster. rancor or terentek would be cool though, terrentek would show absolute mastery considering they are force resistant darkside monstrosities

Nice work! I really admire the level of detail you put into making this class, even with Star Wars lore!

Definetely a plus one!

I also loosely, noobishly design classes/specs on my free time, and this class perfectly matches a Cloud/Celestial/Mountain Monk-type class I'm also building up (only difference i think is that I use spec-based dragon strikes as combo finishers). It's really amazing how intuitive class types are, and how similar different games and different minds conceptualize different classes. (Well, I think except the Scoundrel Heals, if I remember correctly, only SWTOR had the lore to add a tech-based healing spec as unique as the Sawbones spec. idk lol.)

Let me share some i-think-you-already-know-but-ill-still-post-it-here terms, for some of your unnamed skills . Brainstorm! I like to brainstorm!

Mountain (Earth): Tremors, Crag, Stoneform, Stability, Biding Strength/Bide, Boulder[b/d]ash (but i like the rolling stone - gather moss thing you did there )

Celestial (Water): glide, stream, splash, tide, flow, melt, graceful strikes, fluid movement, steady flow, redirection, follow through

Celestial (Spirit): sun/solar, moon/lunar, star/stellar, comet, meteor, aand i cant think of any other term -- chi strike, chi wreck, unstable chi, disruption, agony

Celestial (Fire): comet, meteor, burn, strike, tongue, lash, piercing flames -- ugh, stop, sorry, fire terms are so common. x_x

Cloud (Air): zephyr, tempest, gale, gust, draft, breeze, swell, shear, whip, lash, flurry, glide, flight, float, leap, mist, mist form, rolling clouds, slipstream, etc.

Also, I though the Thrysian mirror would most likely use blood, flesh, mind, and other gory and INTERNAL human-body terms (think Brawler/Gladiator; also, it complements the Echani that use EXTERNAL elements). Although some terms are already taken by smugglers and JK's/SW's.

So, i thought, somewhere along the lines of: gore, gouge, bleed, hemmorage, concussion, ail, execute, felling blow, blood, burning blood, bloodboil, bloodbath, berserk, toughness, tenacity, challenging roar, charge, cower, flurry, leap, agility training, dirty fighting, brawl, etc.

-- But then I read the storyline . The class was actually on the valorous side of Brawlers and Gladiators, and they were more like Thyrsian Guards and Thyrsian Champions. Maybe they ARE guards/champions, that *high pitch* fight like brawlers/gladiators , idk haha.

Guards and Champions would then have skill name sets similar to the JK trees, with names more relating to virtues (cardinal virtues would be a good choice).

Or, or, you can also rename the AC's from Brawler, to Guard/Champion/Gladiator (the one with the tank spec); and from Gladiator to Striker/Brawler/Gladiator/Berserker (DOT and mobility-based DPS spec).

TLDR: fan-guy noooob post talking to a pro. whohoo lol.

I'm excited to see the Alchemist/Beastmaster pages! :DDD.

IMO, these classes can easily intertwine with Star Wars lore, maybe even easier compared to the Echani/Thrysian classes, (but then again, I know little about Star Wars canon).

It will be interesting to see the gameplay changes as well if these classes make it through. (Echani/Thrysian just adds another melee/ranged character on the brawl - another character with unique skills, but add in a character that has a combat pet, hmm, it adds a whole new level of combat mechanics, control, and tactics). Or so i think, we'll see with how you thought these classes through.

(but i like the rolling stone - gather moss thing you did there )

I originally had it as "Rocks Fall..." and "...Everyone Dies" but effects I came up with didn't jive with the name.

I'm rebuilding the mechanics of the Force Adept and Imperial Fanatic, but I'm having some issues getting the two to grok with one another, especially since I *really* like the idea of both of these classes as double mainstat classes (Echani/Thyrsian as Cunning/Strength; Adept/Fanatic as Aim/Willpower) and I've having some problems tweaking the desired themes and mechanics to work together as mirrors (Adept is intended to move into Mystic, Force heavy ranged DPS, and Beastmaster, DPS or healer; Fanatic as Guardsman and Alchemist; Alchemist and Beastmaster mirror seamlessly, but I'm having problems getting the Guardsman to mirror the Mystic and vice versa). The stories are mostly done (just Act 3 for the Fanatic remaining).

Hmm, Mystic and Guardsman.. the only viable option for me is to keep one and change the other.

What I'd do for this case is weigh in how the Mystic's skills relate with the Beastmaster, and how being a Mystic/Beastmaster would fit the Adept storyline. Then compare it with how the Guardsman's skills relate with the Alchemist, and how being a Guardsman/Alchemist would fit the Fanatic storyline.

Whichever makes more sense (or connections), stays, then the other will need some re-imagining.

From what I see here, given the names and roles, the Mystic would easily match the Beastmaster's skills (thinking of the shared tree) and it is a logical extension for the Adept if the class leans to focus towards the Force.

The Guardsman, however, would most likely be in it because the class is a Fanatic. Fanatics leaning towards preservation, yes, can be called Guardsmen in a dark, creepy sense. Guardsmanship may also be the heart of your storyline, idk, so changing the AC name may also make changes to your story. And I can't see a good mix if I try to think of a shared Alchemist spec.. But the name also connotes a tank spec, so, hmm.

Running through the related terms for Fanatic that i can think of so it matches the possible storyline, mirror the Mystic, and jive with the Alchemist, I think these possible AC names can help, IF you would want to change the Guardsman AC (which would change A LOT to what you have now):

Extremist, Cultist, Zealot, Abomination, Aberrant, Recluse, Heretic, Apostate.

Changing the other end will only be better IMO, if and only if the heart of the Fanatic storylint leans more towards being a Guardsman and if the Guardsman and Alchemist has a good inter-AC jivyness between them. With that, you can switch from a force-heavy Mystic to a guardy-guardy Ranger/Keeper.

My two cents.

Hmm, Mystic and Guardsman.. the only viable option for me is to keep one and change the other.

My problem mostly derives from a desire to make them both double ranged ACs to prevent overloading the game with mDPS. I can *very* easily construct a design for them that encompasses everything I want out of them using a melee construct. The Mystic and Guardsman would both be melee ACs channeling their force powers through their electrostaffs: Mystics lighting their staffs on fire or surrounding them in sheaths of Force whereas Guardsman simply channel the Emperor's near divine might through their weapons to augment their blows.

The problem is in creating a ranged construct that still makes sense for the both of them while simultaneously matching power sources (Force and Force). The Mystic's ranged construct would be *very* Force heavy: flamestrikes, lightning, illusions, etc. (all of the kewl weird Force powers that exist in the EU but aren't used by Jedi/Sith in TOR). The Guardsman's ranged construct could be based upon one of two different possibilities. The first, which groks the best with the Mystic's ranged construct *mechanically*, is channeling the Emperor's powers and unleashing them upon foes so that, instead of lightning and more lightning, it's more like raw black/blue/purple dark side energy. The second, which groks with the Guardsman construct thematically, is using a rifle, which is problematic since rifles are Tech rather than Force. I could *potentially* explain it as the electrostaff being modified to fire bolts of energy which are powered by a combination of technology and the Emperor's divine will, but it always feels a bit cheese-y to me.

The stories themselves were set up to accommodate both ACs equally well. The Adept's focuses upon discovering its origins and the interaction with the other organizations that it naturally upsets with its presence (i.e how the Jedi Order feels about the Adept). The Fanatic's focuses upon serving as one of the elite servants of the Emperor, sent to serve his interests directly by strengthening the cult of the Emperor and taking care of threats to his supremacy. The original name for the Fanatic was the "Cultist", but I felt that Fanatic fit better.

...

 

The stories themselves were set up to accommodate both ACs equally well. The Adept's focuses upon discovering its origins and the interaction with the other organizations that it naturally upsets with its presence (i.e how the Jedi Order feels about the Adept). The Fanatic's focuses upon serving as one of the elite servants of the Emperor, sent to serve his interests directly by strengthening the cult of the Emperor and taking care of threats to his supremacy. The original name for the Fanatic was the "Cultist", but I felt that Fanatic fit better.

Oh, I see, the Guardsman/Fanatic makes even more sense now. Nice.

Though, (haha), I still think that there's a better term for "Guardsman", maybe something less tank-sounding and something more dark, since they ARE Emperor-fanbois xD. Maybe a term from the EU, perhaps? Guardsman works, dont get me wrong, but a term inclined on the dark side might sound better. Like how it ended up being Consular and Inquisitor from their old names. Then again that's just me, sorry.

Anyway, this is also too early for me to effectively contribute constructively (i never liked the word criticize even in the context of constructive criticism ) to your magnificent piece of an idea, especially that only the gist of the AC's were given. So Ill save it for when it's out!

Kudos!

I approve. Sorry, I haven't had time to sift through the section of the game, but did you by chance create an IMPERIAL side class? If so, I must've missed it.

Yes I know the Jedi/Sith classes are interchangeable with one-another, but I am curious to see if you could come up with a class to COMPLEMENT the Echani, being a Melee focused class, and maybe centralize it around the Imperial faction, only making a ranged class.

With the inception of Treek, a Tank/Healer into the mix, it would be fascinating to see. I remember when Diablo 2's expansion came in and they had 2 distinct classes with it: Druid and Assassin. So if the Echani are the melee focused group and really centralized in the Republic, what would really draw to the Empire? Nightsisters would be cool, considering they typically use Force Magycks and Energy Bows (or Bowcasters which are shown), and while not persay Imperial loyalists, in this time of the lore are in fact loyal to the Sith. So like the Echani with their off-beat almost mystical connection to the Force (which is hard not to draw the line, they're far more ritualistic than Mandalorians), the Nightsisters would almost be a counterpoint to the more serene Echani with their Magycks and really give that sense of power.

And before anyone goes off, in the lore there have been proven to be the Nightbrothers, who typically are secondary to the females, but if one is particularly exceptional (like Savage Opress), they are given amnesty within the clan and even respect. But since they still take orders from the Mother, it can be led to argue that the Nightsister/brother class would begin as one who has been given up to servitude to the Mother, who has aligned herself with the Sith (insert Darth you will kill at the end here) and you are to become her finest champion to represent Dathomir in the Empire. The only changes there between the genders would in essence be minor inflections not unlike they do with the whole "aliens vs. humans" debates or when they say "he" or "she".

Kitru is far more detailed in the aspect of the gameplay engine, so I'mma back out of that, but from a lore perspective, a ranged class with an "almost" connection to the Force to counter the melee monks of the Echani would play quite the balance. Just need to figure out how they would work.

I approve. Sorry, I haven't had time to sift through the section of the game, but did you by chance create an IMPERIAL side class? If so, I must've missed it.

The Imperial mirror of the Echani is the Thyrsians.

If you're referring to the second class idea of the pair that I suggested that this would go with, I've got one that mostly done and is just waiting on having the last bits of one of the stories for it finished before I post it. I actually reference this in the last few posts.

So like the Echani with their off-beat almost mystical connection to the Force (which is hard not to draw the line, they're far more ritualistic than Mandalorians)

The Echani aren't connected to the Force any more than any other race. It's actually something of a taboo for one of their kind to use it (just check out KotOR 2 with Brianna; she's Force Sensitive but takes a *lot* to convince her that she should get trained by you and, even then, she admits that it's going against her cultural bonds). Their ability to predict attacks is based purely upon a *massive* amount of experience fighting, not drawing upon the Force in any way. This is why I made the Echani and Thyrsian ACs Tech based, rather than Force based.

And before anyone goes off, in the lore there

If you checked the lore, you'd know that the Witches of Dathomir, of which the Nightsisters are a sect of, were not even founded, by the Jedi knight that was banished there, until 600 BBY. TOR is set 3000 years before that. As such, no variety of Witch of Dathomir, whether Nightbrother/sister or one of the non-evil clans, is appropriate for the timeline. It's been recommended time and again in this as well as other threads and the answer is always the same: they're not right for the timeline.