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Gamebreaking behaviour within hardmode flashpoints


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I still don't understand the use of the term 'gamebreaking' in this thread.

 

In my interpretation, gamebreaking refers to practices that makes some part of the game either unplayable or so unenjoyable that no one participates. That's clearly not the case here.

 

I am glad you asked, this is why I call this gamebreaking.

 

Gamebreaking to me is anything that wants you stop playing, either part of the game or the whole game. It is something where you feel it is either hopeless or you simply lose interest to continue what you are doing.

 

It is no secret that gear is important in this game, as it is in any other MMO. It is a ladder to climb, first you get the basic gear then the advanced and finally expert gear. But the ride to get to the top is long and hard, it is where many quit playing. Then we add what I and many other players say in this thread and others on this forum where problems occur, in this case regarding heroic flashpoints.

 

If you read this thread you will find out that many players, including myself ofcourse has found gameplay rather frustrating regarding bosskilling in heroic flashpoints. May it be someone that needs gear and bluntly gets insulted, ignored and left alone in a instance or someone that simply wants to enjoy the challenges of the different bosses, especially since many of the bosses contain gamemecanics useful to know for furter harder raiding.

 

My point is this: I call it gamebreaking because it might be a factor for either quitting the game or simply refusing to use groupfinder to play the game as it is intended to be. Some might agree, some might not but reading through several posts here and on other topics on this forum the "fast run" flashpoints does create frustration amongs players. That includes both those that assumes that the flashpoint is nothing more then a token grinding farm, and those that needs gear and wants to enjoy the content.

 

Have I made myself clear why I call it gamebreaking?

Edited by Icestar
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I'm a tank. I run FPs mostly every day. I'll skip trash all the live long day, but I never complain if someone manages to accidentally pull aggro (everyone does on occasion), and I never skip bosses.

 

Even the minibosses in Battle of Ilum.

 

Tionese crystals are probably being removed from boss drops in 1.6, and existing crystals will be used to buy max-tier lockboxes from vendors. Never mind the daily comms they drop that everyone *****es about needing so many of. I still like running FPs, even if I grouse about getting my fiftieth Battle of Ilum or my eight-quadrillionth Directive 7.

 

If someone wants to votekick my tank for doing bosses, they're more than free to do so and enjoy the 15-30 minute wait for a new one while I get an instant queue pop.

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There has always been some kind of mobskipping in either small or large scale in flashpoints but the latest trend is simply wrong.

 

It seems that teams doing flashpoints skip some of the bosses and have no respect for the ones that are signing up to get better gear.

 

Please respect the players that join flashpoints with groupfinder to gear up, it is enough to wait for ages for them to pop.

 

Alternatively Bioware could make the flashpoint not complete unless all bosses are dead (the way it should be)

 

Thoughts?

Is it fair to ignore players in the team that needs gear and steamroll through the flashpoint not listening at all?

 

I have a question for you , Pay me to do it or give me a good reason to not skip anything , I don't want to be in a place that gives me nothing for a hour when I can do it in 20 mins and go get other things done ..... use my time more wisely ....

 

 

 

also you need think on this, some of us have done just what you are complaining about , but after a while it gets really really old , I don't do the dailys anymore , unless it's for the weekly, I can make better creds standing around the fleet , selling my wares then out being bored worse then I would be on the fleet ... I guess my point Is I'm not being rude , but IF the Group is over geared and not your guildes your runin with .

 

and if the pugs are high end geared players they are only there for one thing and that's the daily and how fast they can get it done ...

 

what BW should DO is gear match like they are doing in PVP , that way it might fix what you want but till then most geared out players are not gonna stand around for a 1 hour when it can take them 20 mins and you really can 't force them to ...

 

Most of them have done the kill all , mission all thing and really get to hate those places , as you will to ,,, over time .. : :)))

 

Is it fair to ignore players in the team that needs gear and steamroll through the flashpoint not listening at all?

 

 

I would not say iqnoring you , but the gear you really need only drops off the last boss in most of the HM FP the rest is junk ..

and if you want to gear up fast go run SM EV/KP you will gear up way faster there, then you will in any HMFP .. have a ton more Fun. :)))

 

 

 

IS it fair that you make a player run something he may have run 50 times all ready ? ..

Edited by moonshoter
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I did several HM flashpoints tonight and in ALL of them the players assumed from the start that every boss that could be skipped would be skipped. The funny part is that when I convinced the groups to do bosses on the way many players needed on the stuff that dropped. It is a MYTH that every boss other then the final boss has useful loot, they drop exotech or other purple useful things sometimes.

 

A few of the "elite" players left instantly when I asked the team to kill bosses on the way, some even said they would put me on ignore ONLY for asking for other then "a quick run".

 

After have studied this for a while now with my 10 level 50s in different gearsettings, I can finally agree to my statment that there is a a gamebreaking behaviour going on within HM flashpoints. This can be very unfriendly for those that either want to play the game and have fun and be challenged by the different bosses or simply for those that needs gear because what they have is not enough for future gaming.

 

I strongly advise Bioware to look into this, they ask for player feedback......

 

This thread has lots of it :tran_cool:

 

 

I wish there was a fix for this , but every MMO I have ever played is the same , over time the FP.s or = depending on the game gets old and have no use other then for the daily's ... and not every one has the time or wants to gear up more then 3 50 's that I know and they had a hard time getting three to 50 ...

Edited by moonshoter
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Exactly, and make it so that all FP mobs and bosses will not reset while someone is still alive in the instance to prevent people from training off the boss after running far enough. Railroad all boss encounters, that way the people who need gear gets gear, people who don't do the community a good favor. If everyone is Dreadguard geared, I don't see the problem of forced boss encounter either. It will take you longer trying to run off the boss without Sprint/Speeder/Rocket Boots than LOLfacerolling it in 25 seconds.

 

EQ1 all over again if that happens I remember those days IN EQ1 and really miss it sometimes them YELLING TRAIN TO ZONE WATCH OUT ....

 

 

Fun times

Edited by moonshoter
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I'm a tank. I run FPs mostly every day. I'll skip trash all the live long day, but I never complain if someone manages to accidentally pull aggro (everyone does on occasion), and I never skip bosses.

 

Even the minibosses in Battle of Ilum.

 

Tionese crystals are probably being removed from boss drops in 1.6, and existing crystals will be used to buy max-tier lockboxes from vendors. Never mind the daily comms they drop that everyone *****es about needing so many of. I still like running FPs, even if I grouse about getting my fiftieth Battle of Ilum or my eight-quadrillionth Directive 7.

 

If someone wants to votekick my tank for doing bosses, they're more than free to do so and enjoy the 15-30 minute wait for a new one while I get an instant queue pop.

 

 

 

12 min run , all most every BoI I get players would rather do it , some have No idea it was even POss .. :) ..

 

I Would not votekick you for that , I vote kick the one holding us up , one time I got HMFP on my sorc never got above half force unless it was a Cut screen because of how fast the tank was pulling I loved every min of that .. he was at the time in full 61's ....

Edited by moonshoter
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I have a question for you , Pay me to do it or give me a good reason to not skip anything , I don't want to be in a place that gives me nothing for a hour when I can do it in 20 mins and go get other things done ..... use my time more wisely .....

 

I hope you are not serious, charging credits for helping people out.

 

also you need think on this, some of us have done just what you are complaining about , but after a while it gets really really old , I don't do the dailys anymore , unless it's for the weekly, .

 

Thankyou for proving my statement from your point of view that it has become gamebreaking.

 

I am not simply writing this for my part, I know how the flashpoints gets old when you have done them alot. I have 10 level 50s and has played since day one, you guess how many flashpoints I have done in my days.

 

Bioware asks for feedback, this is exactly what it is. Their flashpointsystem may work below level 50 where everyone NEEDS experience aswell as gear but at level 50, the flashpoint gets changed into a grinding farm where 99% gets skipped by default.

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One problem with all the spead runs/boss skipping is newer players aren't learning how to properly play their classes. I just healed a flashpoint with three well geared people. I thought this would be a smooth run but I was wrong. The tank had a lot of hps but couldn't take a hit without a lot of damage. The dps were leaving all the weaker mobs alone. Guess what when you don't kill them they go after the healer. And when the healer has to start killing the small fry then that tells me people are not learning how to play. These spead runs are teaching bad habits to newer players. Edited by Billoneofmany
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One problem with all the spead runs/boss skipping is newer players aren't learning how to properly play their classes. I just healed a flashpoint with three well geared people. I thought this would be a smooth run but I was wrong. The tank had a lot of hps but couldn't take a hit without a lot of damage. The dps were leaving all the weaker mobs alone. Guess what when you don't kill them they go after the healer. And when the healer has to start killing the small fry then that tells me people are not learning how to play. These spead runs are teaching bad habits to newer players.

 

Are you saying that experienced people are supposed to babysit total strangers through flashpoints with no expectations for themselves? It just doesn't work like that. If you truly think people are in need of such babysitting they can get that through their guilds.

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One problem with all the spead runs/boss skipping is newer players aren't learning how to properly play their classes.

 

YES!

 

That is exactly one of my reasons for creating this thread. It is very good training to do bosses with different mechanics.

 

It is sad how many players deny new players that experience by default

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I'm not saying anything about babysitting anyone. I just pointed out a consequence of all the spead runs.

 

Knowing how to do a speed run has almost nothing to do with knowing how to play your class effectively. Even when doing full clear content, you'll run into tanks that have no idea how to keep aggro, DPS that don't know how to interrupt or what the proper kill order is, and healers with no idea how to manage their resources.

 

Crappy players in good gear aren't a consequence of speed runs. They're a consequence of easy content providing good gear.

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Knowing how to do a speed run has almost nothing to do with knowing how to play your class effectively. Even when doing full clear content, you'll run into tanks that have no idea how to keep aggro, DPS that don't know how to interrupt or what the proper kill order is, and healers with no idea how to manage their resources.

 

Crappy players in good gear aren't a consequence of speed runs. They're a consequence of easy content providing good gear.

 

Most people level 1-50 solo and then start dipping their toes in lfg pugs. Chances are the other three people are proficient on all the fps. So they run the fp with the new guy tagging along showing all the tricks and short cuts. If all the fps are similar then that newb will never have the chance to learn the basics of group content. This is probably why lfg HM LI can be so hard. The newer people havent learned the basic because they were carried through tier 1 fps. Tier 1 is easy content now because people over gear it and know all the tricks.

 

If they are in good guilds then this should help those players. But if they are in weaker guilds or unguilded then the problem won't be fixed for them.

 

I'm not saying anyone should become babysitters. I'm saying this is how the game is today like it or not.

Edited by Billoneofmany
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As a lvl 50 Tank I will always skip as much trash and bosses as possible during the HM FP because I don't care what gear u need. I am their to get my BH comm and get out and move on to do something else. The reason why I can do this is because I don't have to wait 30 to 45min for a queue because I am Tank. I will take the penalty and queue again later to get an instant pop. If you wish to kill all bosses then roll a tank and you will be able to dictate what you want to kill and don't kill.
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As a lvl 50 Tank I will always skip as much trash and bosses as possible during the HM FP because I don't care what gear u need. I am their to get my BH comm and get out and move on to do something else. The reason why I can do this is because I don't have to wait 30 to 45min for a queue because I am Tank. I will take the penalty and queue again later to get an instant pop. If you wish to kill all bosses then roll a tank and you will be able to dictate what you want to kill and don't kill.

 

Yeah, I have seen your playstyle many times. That is why I want Bioware to look into this since those that needs gear/wants to enjoy the game has no chance against those that think like that.

 

A dps can wait up to an hour to get a team only to be either kicked or left alone for asking to do a few more bosses, it is a flaw with the gamemecanics that needs to be looked into.

Edited by Icestar
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If Bioware actually put decent drops on the bosses more people wouldn't skip them... The bosses should drop various color dyes, oh wait SWTOR doesn't have a dye system because the DEV's wanted full control of the gear coloring...

 

They need to make it so bosses have a chance to drop rare cool looking gear skins.... Then more people would do them...

 

As it is now Bioware just doesn't give much incentive to kill FP bosses.... Your better off just doing the flashpoint really fast and collect black hole comm's, the black hole gear is far superior to columni.

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it is a flaw with the gamemecanics that needs to be looked into.
No, the flaw is with the human component of the equation, not much bioware can doing about that without making the game way too restrictive for my taste. Jerks will be jeriks, even tank jerks will have problems when every decent dps and healer puts them on their ignore list. Edited by mikebevo
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I definetely agree. BW should introduce a system were say, every boss must be killed and say, at least 100 enemies (or what ever amount is applicable) before the FP can actually be completed. 4 of the last 5 groups I've gotten have skipped everything except for the final boss.
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No, the flaw is with the human component of the equation, not much bioware can doing about that without making the game way too restrictive for my taste. Jerks will be jeriks, even tank jerks will have problems when every decent dps and healer puts them on their ignore list.

 

The flaw is that the flashpoints are designed so the human equation can interact with everyones gameplay on a gamebreaking level.

 

If the flashpoints were designed like many other MMOs where it is not possible to bypass 95% of the mobs and lots of bosses things would be fine.

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Sorry, am just there for the BH commendations, nothing else. Want that FP done as quickly as possible.

 

 

Yeah, I have seen your playstyle many times. That is why I want Bioware to look into this since those that needs gear/wants to enjoy the game has no chance against those that think like that.

 

A dps can wait up to an hour to get a team only to be either kicked or left alone for asking to do a few more bosses, it is a flaw with the gamemecanics that needs to be looked into.

 

So you want it to be done your way. Wonderfull "teamspirit" you are displaying. What you find fun, I find incredibly tedious and boring. What's next? You want attunements added to the game?

Edited by MichelvanMeerten
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What is wrong with all of you people?! If you want to do a full clear of a fp it will take an hour or more! A LOT of people just queue for these for quick Black Hole comms. If you wants waste strangers time, that's bad on you!

If you want a full clear, make friends, join a guild, whatever. But don't waste strangers time that want a quick run!

Or even better, roll a healer or tank character and YOU can dictate what the group kills. Some random DPS asking for a full clear in any of my groups will either go along with the quick run or get booted and replaced instantly by another DPS. Bad attitude? Maybe but I'm not here to waste time

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Reading all of these comments, I haven't seen anyone at all mention one of the primary reasons that I, and many others, now skip all optional content inside of Flash Points.

 

The Loot Nerf of Patch 1.4.

 

Loot tables themselves were curtailed, rates of items dropping were severely reduced. Comms awards you needed for gear were also reduced, and how you get them was restricted even further. Why?

 

A few reasons:

 

To slow gear progression. There were tons of complaints about people gearing up too quickly. Well, this will help solve that little problem. This also allows them to be lazy and not add any new Flash Points to keep the people already geared but aren't raiding, satisfied. Instead it just encourages said geared players to rush through for their daily/weekly comm allotment.

 

Free 2 Play. Now that there isn't tons of Artifact quality items dropping from every Boss in a Flash Point, the ones that actually do drop, act as a big carrot towards getting Free 2 Play players to purchase the authorization from the Cartel Shop.

Edited by Malkavier
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What is wrong with all of you people?! If you want to do a full clear of a fp it will take an hour or more! A LOT of people just queue for these for quick Black Hole comms. If you wants waste strangers time, that's bad on you!

If you want a full clear, make friends, join a guild, whatever. But don't waste strangers time that want a quick run!

Or even better, roll a healer or tank character and YOU can dictate what the group kills. Some random DPS asking for a full clear in any of my groups will either go along with the quick run or get booted and replaced instantly by another DPS. Bad attitude? Maybe but I'm not here to waste time

 

If you joined via group finder and don't even want to attempt to get to the end IMO you are wasting everyone else's time. A flashpoint is not an op so I don't understand why you are using the term "full clear" but the content is designed for start to end runs rather than boss to boss, everyone's goal is to get to the end without wasting to much time and wiping.

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So you want it to be done your way. Wonderfull "teamspirit" you are displaying. What you find fun, I find incredibly tedious and boring. What's next? You want attunements added to the game?

 

So, you honestly think it is such a gamebreaker for you to kill that extra boss eventhough it only takes 3 minutes.

 

You really, really proves my point in this thread

Edited by Icestar
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Some random DPS asking for a full clear in any of my groups will either go along with the quick run or get booted and replaced instantly by another DPS. Bad attitude? Maybe but I'm not here to waste time

 

Please read my thread. I have never ever talked about a "full clear".

 

I am talking about the teams that always pass the bosses on the way and refuses to kill them eventhough there is someone in the team that can use what they drop.

 

All in all the extra bosskilling would take around a few extra minutes, a "full clear" would take ages but that is not up on the table here.

Edited by Icestar
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