also, there's tank stance which means that their armor rating and damage reduction will be FAR higher than that of a Pyrotech.

Ahem, with both at WH level, does the 38.25% of damage reduction a Kinetic Shadow with Jedi resistance and Stasis (out of 23/1/17 spec - 36.22% without it) have, seem that far higher to you than the 31.36% that a Pyro who don't take Power Armor have ?

You know, here, being "a tank" is very relative. I personally don't have ever seen a lower dmg reduction for a tank.

It's a natural reaction when you see a class that has such an incredible versatility compared to other classes that are miles behind. Besides i would rather prefer more predictability in what they can throw at you. A carnage marauder, a PT, whatever other class you know exactly what you can expect from them, what they can use against you, what you should be aware against, what talents they have at their disposal. And all of these play complete differently, you cannot plan ahead how you will react to their moves.

 

Against assassins, his stance doesn't mean anything, a sin in tank stance could be a hybrid tank/deception with crazy survivability, or he could be the standard 27/1/13 or any other build or he could just be a pure tank. It means nothing.

 

I do not believe that this is in any way fair. I believe that this is a result of a class design failure when developers had no idea what exactly they want from a class, how should it perform what should be their weaknesses and strengths. They did it perfectly for Snipers, which makes me think that different people have been responssible for different classes. In this case i believe that the designer behind the assassins did a bad job.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=591260

Four different specs talked about in detail. These are just the different TANK specs available to a shadow. This isn't even counting 0/27/14, 14/4/23, 5/5/31, Full Infil spec, etc...

You cant nerf them unless a complete redesign of the inquisitor/consular class was made because this is a desing problem the devs said oh they wear light armor lets give em lots of tools to compensate 1 year later we all know that heavy armor means nothing in pvp thats why the trooper class has 1 defensive cd and no utility at all.

A class that can root sprint Stealth become inmune to tech damage and cc aoe knockbac can mezz 2 ppl with mind maze and force lift hook if specced self heal and be tankish in dps gear needs to be looked at seriously or give troopers and other classes that has NOTHING compared to this one some tools

What exactly you don't like about Pyrotech? It's one of the only 4 specs in the entire game that can kill a healer. In fact with current state of buble stuns Carnage is out of the question for this job. Without Pyrotech we might just as well all roll healers in PvP.

Lots of truth in this post.

You cant nerf them unless a complete redesign of the inquisitor/consular class was made because this is a desing problem the devs said oh they wear light armor lets give em lots of tools to compensate 1 year later we all know that heavy armor means nothing in pvp thats why the trooper class has 1 defensive cd and no utility at all.

 

 

A class that can root sprint Stealth become inmune to tech damage and cc aoe knockbac can mezz 2 ppl with mind maze and force lift hook if specced self heal and be tankish in dps gear needs to be looked at seriously or give troopers and other classes that has NOTHING compared to this one some tools

Let me know when assassins are used for more than node guarding

/thread

Let me know when assassins are used for more than node guarding

/thread

taking nodes? ballcarriers? infiltrate enemy lines in huttball? pick the ball 1st in huttball? /thread

now you let me know when troopers are used for anything but damage btw your guild has a proof right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9BW_8NbE60&feature=youtu.be as i was talking about both archetypes and here you can see inquisitors heal better dps better CC better and has more survavility than trooper and if you just use your shadows to guard nodes you are doing it wrong.

taking nodes? ballcarriers? infiltrate enemy lines in huttball? pick the ball 1st in huttball? /thread

now you let me know when troopers are used for anything but damage btw your guild has a proof right here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9BW_8NbE60&feature=youtu.be as i was talking about both archetypes and here you can see inquisitors heal better dps better CC better and has more survavility than trooper and if you just use your shadows to guard nodes you are doing it wrong.

Every single rated team in swtor runs one sin for off node and thats it

There are a few who run one extra for stealth attacks but they are the vast minority and typically only because those sins have been around longer than their other guys, why you are even arguing this point is absurd

These threads make me lol.

23/1/17 is the spec i play.

YES I use a shield because when you're running the ball and someone is auto attacking you from a far you mitigate it down to say 80hp per tick instead of around 200... that adds up and quick! So IMO having the shield allows me to be more versatile especially when guarding a pocket healer who is getting focused.

All you need to do is know when to attack them and when to stun them, same problem people had with sentinels popping guarded by the force. If you get the guy full resolve and he pops that he's going to have his way with you. Just need to learn control and how to counter other classes.....

To be a better player in PVP i recommend you play all the classes and advanced classes this way you can always konw the counter balance attack/stun to do.

This class does not need a nerf, honestly I think they have this perfected. It's strong, but not OP, its a good tank, but not game breaking, its a good stealth class, and a fun all around class to play.

For the record I out DPS shadows and sins allll the time in my spec, the spec doesn't mean one does more than the other. It matters to the player and their play style.

If you think about it 23/1/17 has ZERO DOTs .. yes I can cast one on you, but i'm not going to use that ability, takes too long to cast and does too little dmg. So its a direct dmg class I have to be up in your face to hurt you.

Slow me,

Root me,

knock me back,

stun me,

STOP QQing on the forums.

i have 7 50s that I PVP on and I feel guilty playing smash spec on my sentinel i just feel like im cheating when i hit everyone for 6k+

oh hey, another nerf herding thread.

how about, no.

oh hey, another nerf herding thread.

 

how about, no.

How bout no scott.

They just need to reduce the amount of damage that an assassin//shadow can do while in Tank stance and in turn add more threat to each ability to keep the tank viable in PVE. If they do this, the assassin will have to either Spec into a DPS spec where DPS gear should be worn, or stay in Tank gear... like they should be.... in a *mostly* tank build.

 

The fact that the class is able to be in full DPS gear, while still having all the defensive perks of the tank tree (and mitigation bonus of tank stance) is the major problem and gives it a huge advantage over every other class. Assassins and Shadows can still produce great damage while in tank stance/dps gear where other tanks simply can't. You could argue that this is what makes the class unique but you can't deny that it doesn't give a big advantage in PVP.

 

And yes: There is a lot of balancing that needs to happen. Smash is out of control, Marauders have too many tools//team buffs where other DPS classes do not and Sorc/sage Bubble Blind hybrid giving little to no resolve and is able to be clicked off... Are all things that NEED to be "balanced". ((You could even argue being Rooted with a full white resolve bar as another thing to add to the list))

 

Merc , Sorcs and Operatives all have to spec a specific way to actually be viable and desperately need help in the DPS survivability area. (healing is another story... operatives are TOO good, while mercs are non desired...and sorcs are only really viable if they're bubble blind spec)

 

Assassin/Shadow Tank hybrid does need to be tweaked because right now, it is way too strong. I have one and am fully aware that it needs to be balanced.

 

Do I think it will happen? Not really. I think the Makeb patch is going to do more harm then good because the Bioware development team has no clue what its doing when it comes to "balancing".

Quoting this because it seemed to get lost in all the pointless posturing, memes, and trolling. This is probably the most objective, accurate assessment of the issue with tanksins I've read yet. Too bad BW won't see it, and even if they did, their development team is simply too incompetent to figure out a solution.

Quoting this because it seemed to get lost in all the pointless posturing, memes, and trolling. This is probably the most objective, accurate assessment of the issue with tanksins I've read yet. Too bad BW won't see it, and even if they did, their development team is simply too incompetent to figure out a solution.

Does assassin in tank stance does more damage then jugg in tank stance? yes

does assassin in tank stance has more armor and def cool downs then most jugg hybrids? no.

more damage, less armor reduction. seems fine.

plus, can tankasin swap to crazy derp smash in matter of 10 seconds? nope.

jugg hybrid in dps gear is more tanky in pvp then half tank gear assasin in tank stance.

I have both, if I'm to tank for my team in pvp, I preffer jugg. beter carrier, easy to swap from tanking hybrid to full out dps, better last man standing to interrupt caps.

If you complain for tankasin to be op if he killed your jugg hybrid, then it's l2p issue.

you're going to have to elaborate a little more than that. What exactly do you think is overpowered about tank shadow, and what spec are you talking about? 23/1/17? 27/0/14? 31/0/10?

31/31/31

Were they in tank stance?

 

Yeah, thought not.

Were they in DPS gear?

Yeah, thought so.

Also, this thread was a great read!

Quoting this because it seemed to get lost in all the pointless posturing, memes, and trolling. This is probably the most objective, accurate assessment of the issue with tanksins I've read yet. Too bad BW won't see it, and even if they did, their development team is simply too incompetent to figure out a solution.

Make sure when you're writing your ticket to bioware about sins being unbalanced that you put it under smash, jugg tanks, bubble stun, operative heals, ptechs, and snipers. All classes which are taken over sins for anything warzone besides node guarding. Make sure you mention that AFTER you nerf those classes, then you nerf assassins.

Oh wait, that's 6 out of the remaining 6 classes who aren't mercenary.

**** is wrong with you people.

/thread

Make sure when you're writing your ticket to bioware about sins being unbalanced that you put it under smash, jugg tanks, bubble stun, operative heals, ptechs, and snipers. All classes which are taken over sins for anything warzone besides node guarding. Make sure you mention that AFTER you nerf those classes, then you nerf assassins.

 

Oh wait, that's 6 out of the remaining 6 classes who aren't mercenary.

**** is wrong with you people.

/thread

This^

+1

Does assassin in tank stance does more damage then jugg in tank stance? yes

does assassin in tank stance has more armor and def cool downs then most jugg hybrids? no.

more damage, less armor reduction. seems fine.

plus, can tankasin swap to crazy derp smash in matter of 10 seconds? nope.

jugg hybrid in dps gear is more tanky in pvp then half tank gear assasin in tank stance.

I have both, if I'm to tank for my team in pvp, I preffer jugg. beter carrier, easy to swap from tanking hybrid to full out dps, better last man standing to interrupt caps.

If you complain for tankasin to be op if he killed your jugg hybrid, then it's l2p issue.

Guardian tanks are completely reliant on their def CDs to survive any type of FF. Too bad the two good ones are on a 3m cd. Outside of warding call and saber ward, guardian tanks are easier to kill than sin tanks.

People want guardians a MT mostly because of g leap and their spammable free aoe slow that keeps the whole enemy team slowed at all times. If the guardian lost those, sins would probably be better MTs in pvp.

And the 0/27/14 spec does plenty good dps, and will nearly hold it's own against focus guardians on most maps, but with the extra utility of double stealth and fastest node reinforcement. Plus focus spec is inevitably going to get nerfed somehow.

Guardian tanks are completely reliant on their def CDs to survive any type of FF. Too bad the two good ones are on a 3m cd. Outside of warding call and saber ward, guardian tanks are easier to kill than sin tanks.

 

People want guardians a MT mostly because of g leap and their spammable free aoe slow that keeps the whole enemy team slowed at all times. If the guardian lost those, sins would probably be better MTs in pvp.

 

And the 0/27/14 spec does plenty good dps, and will nearly hold it's own against focus guardians on most maps, but with the extra utility of double stealth and fastest node reinforcement. Plus focus spec is inevitably going to get nerfed somehow.

It just seems to me (do not have my jug to 50 yet) that jugs are just way better at tanking than sins. Yes sins have stealth and do better damage (at least single target) than jugs when both are wearing dps gear but the better teams for ranked usually want a good tank jug. Not full tank but a hybrid, at least up to unstoppable in vigilance.

It just seems to me (do not have my jug to 50 yet) that jugs are just way better at tanking than sins. Yes sins have stealth and do better damage (at least single target) than jugs when both are wearing dps gear but the better teams for ranked usually want a good tank jug. Not full tank but a hybrid, at least up to unstoppable in vigilance.

I explained why rwzs use guardians as MTs. It's because of friendly leap and free spammable aoe slow. These two things make them a better tank then the other two. It doesn't really have anything to do with their def cds because a sin that is darkness/deception hybrid will have 24s of 25% dam reduction through blackout along with shroud and deflection. That's pretty equal to guardian cds, esp since blackout has a 1 min cd.

Five things make tank shadow/sin so OP

- all build key benefits place at low tier

- retardedly easy rotation (it's even not a rotation, it's look like strafe and spam spam spam...)

- tone of damage in tank stance and free resource management

- 3nd CC breaker on short CD and overall best escape mechanics

- and last, plenty of control abilities (2 stun, mezz, slow, force pull/wave/lift 0_o)

overal best soloing and party class

best in 1v1 counter

best in 1v2 counter

maybe 1v3...

it is clear that that jugg/PT is 1/2 of what have sin

Five things make tank shadow/sin so OP

 

- all build key benefits place at low tier

- retardedly easy rotation (it's even not a rotation, it's look like strafe and spam spam spam...)

- tone of damage in tank stance and free resource management

- 3nd CC breaker on short CD and overall best escape mechanics

- and last, plenty of control abilities (2 stun, mezz, slow, force pull/wave/lift 0_o)

 

overal best soloing and party class

best in 1v1 counter

best in 1v2 counter

maybe 1v3...

 

it is clear that that jugg/PT is 1/2 of what have sin

Key skills, maybe, are they so good, or are 7 tier skill so crap so ppl have to do hybrids to make AC a killer?

Not many full tank 31/x/x builds for juggs there. PT maybe.

rotation, yes, it is simple. not much synergy, most instant, but far not simplest out there.

tone of damage in 0/27/14 yes, but that's not a tank spec. total damage for 31/x/x or 23/x/x may be high, but there is no burts, they won't kill a rabbit with that.

3 cc breakers? force shroud (1 min) is dots remover, force speed is slow/root remover (20 sec), and a proper cc breaker (2min)

yes, utility is nice, out of combat spike (deception tree has it's own short stun on short cd), usual 4 sec stun, pull (needs target not to white bar), slow (only good if specced tho), push, and 1 out of combat mez + incombat mez on 2 sec (instanc if specced) cast.

1vs2/3 - you must thing of anni marauders. and no, killing 2 muppets doesnt count. bad players who panic and get easly killed doesnt make class op.

edit: to be fair, only reason why I'm defending tank tree and utility (aka tank) hybrid build, is becose if they nerf it, more ppl wil go deception and madness hybrids, and world will burn. (it's like with Maras and Juggs, buffed rage, slight nerf to other trees, and we have derp smash massacre)

1vs2/3 - you must thing of anni marauders. and no, killing 2 muppets doesnt count. bad players who panic and get easly killed doesnt make class op.

It's all relative. And no need skill to kill two punic muppets playing left heel by any class.

Five things make tank shadow/sin so OP

 

- all build key benefits place at low tiercannot argue with this one. But a lot of the cool things are charge specific which was a nerf a while ago.

- retardedly easy rotation (it's even not a rotation, it's look like strafe and spam spam spam...)I have yet to play any class that is "hard" to play.

- tone of damage in tank stance and free resource management

- 3nd CC breaker on short CD and overall best escape mechanicsEvery class has a CC breaker and we have force speed which is critical to staying in range of guarded targets which can be countered with another form of CC since well it only breaks.

- and last, plenty of control abilities (2 stun, mezz, slow, force pull/wave/lift 0_o)

Yeah we do have the best cc in the game. But please people need to stop saying two stuns, we have a hard stun like everyone and a lil 2 sec kd.

overal best soloing and party class

best in 1v1 counter

best in 1v2 counter

maybe 1v3...

a good 1v1 class, 1v2 is possible depending on who its up against and I could 1v3 if I were facing 3 bads.

it is clear that that jugg/PT is 1/2 of what have sin

I am taking a wild guess that you are a jug. Jug tanks are pretty amazing I am working on one now. They have and do things better than assassins and the damage when played right can be almost on par.