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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones


Monoth

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Still waiting to hear how matchmaking determines group composition.

 

Oh wait, it won't do that.

 

Grats on pro-matchmaking supporters favoring a system that offers lopsided matches.

 

You have been debunked.

 

It's not so "lopsided" because at the level that would benefit the most (newbies etc) group composition is less crucial than to more advanced teams. The guy healing you for 500 a tick won't do a lot of difference in his low category, while the guy healing for 1800 a tick does but he's in an higher category where it's more expected to get fairer squads.

 

It's not like a pure solo queue would do anything to fix the same issue, but hey, "debunking" is so easy, posting constructive alternatives with a reasoning behind them is not and guess what, you stop at the "debunking" phase.

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Create a casual PVP tier where premades are not allowed and players get alternate rewards.

I'm not so much interested in PVP gear or any of the rest of that crap, it's simply an xp and/or credits affair for myself. Also I do like the gameplay but premades make great efforts to ruin that with their ultra competitive gameplay. (how about you put that energy into RL?)

 

I reckon there is a large number of people who ignore PVP because of premade vs PUG imbalance, sure its a team game and even if premades were not allowed in a casual tier players would still team up, however there would still be an evens chance that you could win.

 

LVL 55 is very boring if you don't play WZ (and that's not saying much...) though I guess that is better than the BS your offered in WZ currently.

 

I dunno this seems a lill too much like common sense perhaps, the L33T (lol) can play with themselves (pun intended) and the rest of us can have you know FUN?

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I cannot see a system that will please anyone. The best option, which I had mentioned before, is to reward/compensating folks who que solo, but is facing a team that either has 2+ of the same guild or who queued to together.

 

Keep the current 'baseline' win/loss rewards in a wz for premades. That way they do not lose anything. If they join as a group or if they have 2+ teamates with same guild tag on their team, they get this default reward.

 

Then have it so People who queue solo and face one of these 'premade' type teams, they get 2x the amount of comms/valor/money for each person that makes up the premade on the other team. eg. they get 2x if its a 2-man premade/same guild. 4x if its a 3-man premade. 5x its its a 4-man premade, etc.

 

This way, premades still have the same rewards they get now, can still rofl-stomp pugs, etc. But now pugs/solo are compensated by earning more comms/money for putting up with the disadvatnage of facing such a premade. Hope change the quality of pvp, but at least more solo folks might weight the advantages of staying/fighting, then leaving/qqing on forums..

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First goal for any matchmaking - its legacy wide ignore list and never make team with imbecils from it...

 

you cannot exclude bad players from playing, simply because they are bad. these are regular WZs. they are not "choose your own adventure" (i.e., comp). that really is what rated WZs are about.

 

the problem, no matter which side of the solo Q debate you fall on, is that all of the good players or all of the bad players are landing on the same team. this creates lopsided games. I'm sure everyone would rather be on the winning end of those games than the losing end, so of course they'd prefer to grp with the better players in Q. that's just common sense. it's also common sense that a good player will get VERY frustrated by a bad player who costs his team the game. however, this is where I think BW needs to intervene.

 

at some point, you have to say "tough poopy. deal with the fact that you have to have bad players on your team. it's reg WZs." the way BW can do this is through matchmaking, but I think it's pretty clear that they lack the capability or the incentive to code such an intuitive system.

 

separate Qs, however, are a lot simpler to code because they do not call for any extra steps/variables/etc. that complicate matchmaking. the down side is that separate solo Qs randomize team composition. the plus side is that it's feasible to implement from a technological pov and it will produce faster pops than an intuitive matchmaking system that waits and re-balances and skips ppl in Q for higher ratings, etc.

 

since I'm just repeating myself here, I'll try to only post once every couple of days. :D

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You are aware that you're not playing against bots/NPCs if you solo queue, right?

 

No they are not aware, the end of their ridiculous statement is the measure of how deeply they consider an argument. You can prove them wrong a thousand times, they've still forgotten it and reboot their brains to start from scratch before the ink on the exclamation point is dry.

 

Their argument: "Group composition doesn't matter; Voip doesn't matter; practice with the same team doesn't matter; sophisticated ranked strategy doesn't matter - there is no benefit from premading it is all about skill...

 

...But the one thing we care about is don't give pugs an un-farm-able queue where we can't go with our OP premades and farm them with our perfectly composed, voip reliant, signal calling, coordinated, practiced group employing a sophisticated strategy to farm pugs with..."

 

F this game.

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wow, really that changes my point..... smh

I play an mmo to "Group" ...

I play MMOs to play with other people, too. WZ team is a raid. By that logic, players should only be able to queue as 8-man raids. It's an MMO, after all. Massively. Multiplayer. Online.

Edited by Helig
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Seems the ONLY opposition to a none premade casual pvp tier are people who want to take advantage of the current imbalanced system.

 

I couldnt care less if people play this to group, I group only when I feel like it which isnt a lot. The ONLY way a casual pvp tier would hurt premades is that they would likely have to work for a win against other fixed teams.

 

So if you solo queue it means, you have no friends?? how about this is a completely absurd statement..?

 

MMO means that it is demanded that you group up, sorry to say you got the wrong MMO, about 80-90% of swtor content is solo. Plus, if you queue solo your not playing with and against other players? PUGs cant operate as an effective team on the fly? Entirely untrue.

 

I'm not suggesting that regs should be changed into solo queue only or anything like that, keep it the same with the option to queue for a casual tier with the same credit and xp rewards but without WZ comms etc and no premades.

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why is there a solo queue option then if its an mmo

 

That is like asking why there is a group finder for doing flashpoints and operations. It is simply a more efficient way of assembling a team so that solo players can participate in group content.

 

That is not the issue here though. The issue is that placing a full pug team in a match against a team with one or two premade groups is unfair, but separate queues for groups and solo players would help to provide players with an experience that is both more fair, and more fun.

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wow, really that changes my point..... smh

I play an mmo to "Group" ...

 

This is not Everquest 1, this is a self proclaimed "solo / casual friendly" game with so many solo elements that the other MMOs players tease SWTOR as a worse LAN version of KOTOR.

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Create a casual PVP tier where premades are not allowed and players get alternate rewards.

I'm not so much interested in PVP gear or any of the rest of that crap, it's simply an xp and/or credits affair for myself. Also I do like the gameplay but premades make great efforts to ruin that with their ultra competitive gameplay. (how about you put that energy into RL?)

 

This is something I (and others) suggested earlier in one form or another. Honestly, I think it's inefficient (doesn't stop lopsided matches, nor deters the "super queue" of problematic groups into it) and matchmaking is more effective but it's a reasonable solution. If the solo queue "option" is truly just for "fun" (some credits, exp, maybe even 40-60 comms) I don't really have an objection.

 

Could lose the pot-shots at competitive players. Honestly, being competitive in a competition is... playing as intended.

 

 

I dunno this seems a lill too much like common sense perhaps, the L33T (lol) can play with themselves (pun intended) and the rest of us can have you know FUN?

 

I actually find pushing my limits and challenging myself fun. :D it's kind of sad more people don't, these things use to be considered virtues.

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I actually find pushing my limits and challenging myself fun. :D it's kind of sad more people don't, these things use to be considered virtues.

 

We are in the Instant gratification era, dude! These virtues are not kosher any more.

Edited by Vaerah
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I have to leave for work, but when I return I'll probably post a list of a number of quality ideas presented that work towards creating a healthy experience for all involved. They are more constructive and to the point than any finger pointing could ever manage. (And yes, this includes people who say disrespectful things about casuals).

 

As promised by this post, some idea presented in this thread (other than or in addition to matchmaking). some of them were proposed by me, some were not. Credit goes to however wants it really.

 

Queue warning: Queue pops state the match type by queue and the percentage of skill/criteria match (and possible map type).

 

Preference toggle: Solo players are capable of stating their preference for PuG-only matches (and possibly other factors like map type). If multiple games are possible/being created, any games that fit those preferences will be filled by toggled players first until all the spots are filled. Remaining toggled player will be filled into the other matches. A win's rewards in your preferred match settings is less than the standard win, while loses take no penalties.

 

:D okay my mind just went blank. more later.

 

 

We are in the Instant gratification era, dude! These virtues are not kosher any more.

^

If any one's seen Idiocracy, they'll know why I weep for our future generations.

Edited by Doomsdaycomes
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I had this long response wrote up and I just can't bring myself to have hit submit. Granted this game is a Massive multi-player on-line game, there is no stipulation you must group to play it by that means because all MMO really means is alot people coming together to play a on-line game that alot other people enjoy. Plain and simply when 2.4 comes along we will have our answer to many peoples questions weither they continue to player vs. player weither as solo or pre-made unit. Edited by Zohkar
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I dont mind if people want to play competitively that's their choice, forcing others to do this who just want to mess around (within reason) is something I do mind.

 

I cant say that i'm inclined or have the time to put all my leisure time into "getting good" (lol) so does this mean I should be excluded from WZ or suffer the effects of this imbalanced system? It seems bioware should be a lill more mindful of the wider community.

 

Of course there is no perfect solution, doesn't mean they shouldn't try and implement ideas. There still would be lopsided matches be a hell of a lot less than there currently is.

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