I am a level 50 assassin champion geared tank with roughly 22k health with my rakata stim. I have gone up against some smugs that have nearly two shotted me. Now if im lucky enough to have my release trinket and every defensive cooldown ready I can usually eek a win from a geared smug. For anyone who thinks they do not need this nerf they either play as a smugg/op and dont want to lose their extreme burst power or simply don't know what they are talking about. Edited January 22, 2012 by Darth_WrathHeart

I am a level 50 assassin champion geared tank with roughly 22k health with my rakata stim. I have gone up against some smugs that have nearly two shotted me. Now if im lucky enough to have my release trinket and every defensive cooldown ready I can usually eek a win from a geared smug. For anyone who thinks they do not need this nerf they either play as a smugg/op or simply don't know what they are talking about.

 

.... I call total BS on this post. Unless you take off your gear mid-match and dance around.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Azarii

I am a level 50 assassin champion geared tank with roughly 22k health with my rakata stim. I have gone up against some smugs that have nearly two shotted me. Now if im lucky enough to have my release trinket and every defensive cooldown ready I can usually eek a win from a geared smug. For anyone who thinks they do not need this nerf they either play as a smugg/op or simply don't know what they are talking about.

 

That's totally overexeggarated.

 

As I stated, alot of things have been changed in the patch already and OP's already suffered a -25% damage decrease due to the facts that you can't stack the expertise buffs anymore and you can't jump low level no expertise players.

 

If you're a champion geared tank with 22k health -

 

An even geared operative using hidden strike + cloaking screen + hidden strike will result in roughly 13k damage, blowing their cooldowns, stims, adrenals, relics. That's using their strongest attack twice and barely doing more than 60% health

 

And you whinge that you need to use your defensive cooldowns or similar to counter someone that is going ALL OUT with EVERYTHING they have?

 

1. It's not anywhere near to being 2-shot post patch 1.10

2. If someone goes all out and you are just herp derping doing nothing saying "I should be fine even if they go all out, I should just shrug it off and pat them on the head" you're delusional

3. You say that when you go all out you beat them as a tank.

 

Aka, on even terms using every cooldown and and going all out on fighting back you beat them - But that's not enough, you want to have an easy win on them? Without using cooldowns? Without even trying?

 

Yeah, right.

I encountered full Battlemaster operatives when i was level 30 or so and lived to tell the tale.

 

Break cc, cc them, kite, win. Pretty easy.

 

This is clearly an operative / scoundrel spewing dribble

Im a Rank 60 Sorc and i have no prob to kill an Operative !!! I Have to kite ,dot, run , use near all of my Skills !! I say its not easy but after fight i stay with 50%+ life ... Maximum hit from an rank 60 operative was an 5k on me but its only the burst after that burst its defenetly to beat !

 

So stop QQing get same gear , learn to play ur class with all abilitys u have and u see that its possible to rip him !!

 

And now if u say , yeah but he uses stims etc ... for all PVPlers its a must have, to have this job !!!

With regard to #3 - This is my greatest concern.

 

With regard to #4 .....

 

By changing Acid Blade in this way, you further lower their damage outside of their opening burst. Maybe this is needed, but according to the common conventional wisdom of the day, operative damage outside the opening burst is fairly low to begin with.

 

Furthermore, by lowering the resolve generated, it's still possible -- maybe even easier -- to stunlock people. They will simply follow up the opening stun with their other stun. People will still cry, and operatives will probably just end up getting nerfed yet again. On the other hand, if you lower the stun duration but keep the resolve it generates the same, it becomes a worthless talent that no one will bother using.

 

I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I appreciate your post. :]

this is the best sentence that i have read on these forums.

shadow can put the same number that the operative but he need cast clairvoyance 2 times and after use the cooldown to do 60 % more cirital on projectand then he can put 7-10k on 3 sec window as the operative,the problem is that the operative it is faceroll:knowdown,6k-3k-vanish-6k-3k

so it si pretty easy, nerf the burst dps and give some sustained or give them ram up time(hello retrys)

 

Vanish is a 2min CD when talented into. 3min otherwise. How long till you can do yours again?

 

Whats the range on this attacks series? Is it positional dependent? Do you need to be in stealth to do them? Do you have a gap closer? Do you have a knockback? Do you have sustained damage as well? Does your entire damage rotation rely on one ability that requires stealth and behind a target?

 

 

Just saying, I rarely encounter Shadows or Assassins that need to maintain stealth to kill, cc, or put out ****tons of DPS...hell for that matter they don't even particularly need to be within 5m to do a decent amount of damage.

Edited January 23, 2012 by chillinvillain

This is clearly an operative / scoundrel spewing dribble

I also encountered level 50 scoundrels when I was in my 30s and lived to tell the tale. I'm not saying that I beat them, or even that I was always able to escape.....but it was nowhere near as bad as the forum drama llamas would have us believe.

 

Perhaps it has something to do with your class? Perhaps it has something to do with the way you play your class? For example, every time I see a sage/sorcerer sitting around without their bubble up, I can't help but wonder what they are thinking. Maybe they like getting their faces ripped off by stealthies. Who can say? If they are so bad that they aren't bothering to keep themselves bubbled, I can almost guarantee that they don't know how to build a decent PvP spec for themselves.

 

PS - I think the word you are looking for is "drivel". Not being snarky. I would want to know if it were me, that's all.

Edited January 23, 2012 by belialle

Good post!

 

I said the same thing on a previous thread, and now I'm afraid that my class will be nerfed next.

 

what people fail to realize is that a nerf this big will be bad for everyone. BH/troppers are next. But i guess its easier to cry nerf then learning how to counter them...

 

thanks for getting the wheels rolling guys! its a sinking ship for everyone from this patch on!

Before any nerfing of any classes there so much to fix from faction balances and fix resolve because most of the time i get stunned and choked without any resolve come up or when I do have full resolve it still means nothing to them..

 

Chained CC all day long and people are worried about burst damage.. because that is a bigger joke been able to be chained stunned all the time..

I think this hits on a good point, there are not many scoundrels/operatives here would defend the fact you could double up on the stealth hit by using the vanish command, i for one think that the stealth opener command needs a good 10+ second cooldown (instead of NO cooldown like it has at the moment) a lot of em main say "yeah but we can only do that every 2-3 minutes" true, but honestly i don't think it was EVER intended to use that stealth opener twice in just a handful of seconds, in fact almost no mmo (that has a stealth/rogue/hidden class) allows that because that stealth opener is suppose to do about 20%-50% damage, most mmo's are like that stealth classes are ALL front loaded damage, if you allow that front load to go off twice well kiss almost ANY class in the game goodbye.

 

well i dont know what MMOs are you playing , but the only one i consider that have good pvp to be matched is WOW so i can tell you:

 

ROGUE (sthealth class in wow , i think you shouldnt know it, thats why your state)

cheap shot(4sec stun ) CD = 0

AMBUSH (high damage ability) CD = 0

 

and ye combos with resthealt ability are to be done , that is what make sthealth classes fun

 

 

and to finish i just like to ask: WHY YOU COME TO A FORUM TO QQ WHEN YOU HAVE NO SINGLE IDEA WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?

Edited January 23, 2012 by akunamatata

1. My biggest concern about these nerfs for the Operative/Scoundrel class is that this update is far too soon.

 

Level 50 brackets and the biochem nerf have not been in place long, and it seems that to get an accurate reading of where classes truly lie in the balanced/imbalanced scale, there would need to be a couple more weeks of monitoring Level 50 brackets specifically. In addition to more time needed to get an accurate reading, a larger pool of well equipped Level 50 players would be needed as well to have a more diverse sample.

 

Is it not at all posible that bioware have designed these changes with the biochem fix and the level 50 brackets in mind? Or do you think they just work on fixing these kinds of issues by having 5 people go to seperate rooms to think up and implement their own idea without cross checking them???

 

 

Maybe, just maybe the conversation was more like this;

 

Dev1- Hey where getting alot of complaints about the Operative/Scoundrel mirror, they seem to be taking out tanks in less than 10 seconds and the data supports the complaints.

 

Dev2- Yeah it appears that buff stacking with those super biochem re-usables is doing crazy things, hey dev 3 aren't they being toned down in the next patch?

 

Dev3- Yeah, but looking at those numbers, not enough, after all we want them to still be usefull, if we ballance them around the numbers Ops/Scndrl are throwing out then they will be useless for everyone else.

 

Dev1- I guess we need to do something else as well then, how much have you adjusted the chems by?

 

Dev3- 10%

 

Dev1- Ok, so that takes a 10 second kill to 11 seconds... still OP.

 

Dev2- Were also bracketing the 50's so you should take the hits against ungeared characters out of your sample.

 

Dev1- I did that already.

 

Dev2- Darn, I guess we have no choice then, we need a 20% Reduction to the burst output as well.

 

Dev1- Yeah thats what I though, any other options???

 

Devs 2 & 3- I don't see one.

 

Dev1- Ok, lets roll it out on test to see how the numbers look.

Edited January 23, 2012 by GloamingLeuceti

As a healer spec operative, it makes me somewhat sad to see i will now have literally 0 chance to take anyone down.

 

Any other healer spec character in the game has at least some form of viable attack damage, hell, sorcs can still throw out quite a lot of damage in a 1v1 situation.

 

It seems like post patch my only option now is going to be to run away and look for a teammate, or just stand there trying to heal myself until i die.

.... I call total BS on this post. Unless you take off your gear mid-match and dance around.

 

Just because you dont believe something doesnt mean it isnt true.

Before any nerfing of any classes there so much to fix from faction balances and fix resolve because most of the time i get stunned and choked without any resolve come up or when I do have full resolve it still means nothing to them..

 

Chained CC all day long and people are worried about burst damage.. because that is a bigger joke been able to be chained stunned all the time..

 

It true the resolve system seems to be totally broken for some people. i have yet to see the word (Immune) pop up when im getting chain stunned all the way to the bank.

Agree with everything you say. The thing i worry about is from a PVE perspective. This is a HUGE nerf 20% less damage on are opening ability and 20% less arm pen. The arm pen needs increasing imo.

 

Its also should wait to see what happens because alot of this stemmed from the consumables being stacked.

 

This is a LAZY way to nerf us. And if this happens we will never kill tanks. A 1v1 fight can be difficult with no CD's and burst can destroy are energy in seconds.

 

This needs holding back or re evaluating, im not saying it does not need fixing in some way because you cant go 4-5 hitting people with zero reaction from them. But this will seriously damage the class in PVE and make it totally useless.

 

Looks like BW's promise of every class and spec will perform in any situation is false.

Edited January 23, 2012 by calyptic

Looks like BW's promise of every class and spec will perform in any situation is false.

 

It's been a hole month i realised that classes will never be equal !!!

 

Just take a loot at the sorcere group heal compared to the other 2 classes...

this tell you long how thing arent balanced at alll....

it heal twice as others, and can reach full group...

 

So lets make 16 mans Raid which one you pick ???

Edited January 23, 2012 by Saella

Agree with everything you say. The thing i worry about is from a PVE perspective. This is a HUGE nerf 20% less damage on are opening ability and 20% less arm pen. The arm pen needs increasing imo.

 

Maybe they want all PvE Ops/Scoundrels to spec healing since they obviously don't care whether they have good DPS.

 

I hate when classes get such nerfs because of PvP. They need some other set of rules in PvP so that they can nerf there without impacting the questing ability of a class. Same old stupid MMO story going on here: skill seems OP, nerf it hard; class kills fast in PvP, nerf it too. Nevermind buffing others, take the lazy way and just nerf, nerf, nerf, until no skill and no class is anything other than mediocre.

These cries make me happy. I love them! Keep it up, scoundrels!!!

 

I love how they call the biochem change a 'nerf' when it is so obviously against the game design to have so many different buffs overlap. Cumon, show me a single MMO that ALLOWS that type of stacking. This wasn't a nerf, it was a FIX.

 

And keep crying that the stun 'fills the resolve bar' LOL. Keep perpetuating that myth! Makes the other changes feel even worse.

 

I started an OP on friday..got him to 24 by the end of the weekend (Even named him Opie, as in OP). By lvl 18, i was dominating PvP. It can only get better at 50. I'm going to keep playing it and abusing it until BW finally gets this class in the right shape (which, by my estimations is either remove healing completely from the 'dps class' or reduce damage 25% across the board).

 

This was a good first step, BW, keep it up. I'm sure you guys have the real numbers about what crits are being hit and what the REAL situation is in the 50 tier. I'm sure they really don't want to make changes to the class, they have better things to do with their time, so if it actually came to that, the evidence must have been pretty overwhelming.

These cries make me happy. I love them! Keep it up, scoundrels!!!

 

I love how they call the biochem change a 'nerf' when it is so obviously against the game design to have so many different buffs overlap. Cumon, show me a single MMO that ALLOWS that type of stacking. This wasn't a nerf, it was a FIX.

 

And keep crying that the stun 'fills the resolve bar' LOL. Keep perpetuating that myth! Makes the other changes feel even worse.

 

I started an OP on friday..got him to 24 by the end of the weekend (Even named him Opie, as in OP). By lvl 18, i was dominating PvP. It can only get better at 50. I'm going to keep playing it and abusing it until BW finally gets this class in the right shape (which, by my estimations is either remove healing completely from the 'dps class' or reduce damage 25% across the board).

 

This was a good first step, BW, keep it up. I'm sure you guys have the real numbers about what crits are being hit and what the REAL situation is in the 50 tier. I'm sure they really don't want to make changes to the class, they have better things to do with their time, so if it actually came to that, the evidence must have been pretty overwhelming.

 

Yeah, I'm sure you were dominating PVP without the two skills that are getting nerfed (you don't get hidden strike till 36 and acid blade till 41) and without any of the stims that make you crit hard. Keep making stuff up, Bioware has been stupid enough to believe it so far. I had a level 50 juggernaut in full champ gear on my server the other day complain that he got 3 shot by a level 30 operative before 50s got their own bracket. You can do the math all day, but it is physically impossible for that to happen, a level 30 doesn't have any dmg skills besides backstab and even if that crits 3 times in a row it still wouldn't take away HALF of a jug's hp...