Responses in obnoxious green.

The salvation change does not increase the maximum healing of the ability.

It just splits the healing effect in a healing effect when you stand in the circle, and a hot which you get when you stand in the area upon activation only.

This changes brings more mobility to the ability, while also increasing its difficulty to use.

(If you don't line up this skill correctly, people who enter the circle late and stay there will only get half of the healing)

About deliverance:

Your statement about interrupt <--> action might be true when you only have one guy on you, but in arena, if you are a sage healer and get tunneled by the enemies dps and tank, there is no point in buffing deliverance when you will never be able to get a single cast off. You could say there is no real counterplay to interrupts and cc but your own cc. With my suggestions people actually have to coordinate their stun instead of just throwing it out.

About vanguard:

I like where you are going with the stacking buff, but it needs to be bound to something with a lower cooldown than shoulder cannon in order to be more than just a tiny dps boost.

Maybe we're subpar under that specific context that you mentioned, but we excel in other areas. I don't think we should all (healers) be indistinguishably similar under all aspects, or not even in the one aspect that would seem to be the most relevant in arenas which is pressure healing. We have ways to deal with pressure that scoundrels don't (transcendence + hold the line is magnificent), we have incredibly superior firepower (mortar volley >> any dps a scoundrel can pull and it's also 30m range) when it comes to hard switches and the list can go on.

 

As long as we're not played like a scoundrel, or people get it out of their heads that mando doesn't fill the niche a scoundrel fills (in healing ofc), we're "fine" as in competitive. We can bring things that scoundrels dream of and the tools we can provide have to be exploited in order for a mando healer to work.

 

Sorry for derailing thread xd

Agreed here. Merc/mando healers have more utility by a long shot and must play different style. After 2.7, i blieve he only healer to be lacking will be sorcs. Dps merc/mando needs some help but healing is in a decent place. Just got to 1511 rating today (sorry, i'm stoked and had to brag)

my only suggestion for healing merc/mando is let decoy/chaff flare allow us to be uninterruptable for 3-4 seconds. enough to cast 2 heals. tiny QoL improvement that will force opponents to be more wise with cc and knockbacks and we will no longer have to use our shield even when we are not focus but interrupted, just to heal someone

Shadow/Assassin

 

Balance/Madness

• Lambaste now lets Project/Shock automatically proc Force Breach/Discharge on the target while in Force Technique/Lightning Charge.
  
• Physic Absorption/Devour now also causes Project/Shock to deal 25% more damage and cost 15 less force.
  
• Mental Defense/Shapeless Spirit now also reduces the cooldown of Deflection by 30 seconds.
  

These changes will do nothing to aid Madness Assassins. As a matter of fact, it may possibly hurt it. In case you may not know, Madness does not utilize Shock in its rotation since ROTHC and a reduction on Deflection will not save the absurdity at how squishy it is.

Lambaste also has a horrendous force cost and does little damage. I should also mention that Madness is naturally *tight* on force, so this rotation that they'd have to utilize in PvP due to your changes - would make the matter even worse.

The biggest aid to Madness would be to re-add Maul into the rotation or an Assassinate Proc. Survivability issues just need flat damage reduction or other possible indirect benefits such as increased self healing.

Refer to more knowledgeable suggestions made by the Assassin community here or here.

These changes will do nothing to aid Madness Assassins. As a matter of fact, it may possibly hurt it. In case you may not know, Madness does not utilize Shock in its rotation since ROTHC and a reduction on Deflection will not save the absurdity at how squishy it is.

 

Lambaste also has a horrendous force cost and does little damage. I should also mention that Madness is naturally *tight* on force, so this rotation that they'd have to utilize in PvP due to your changes - would make the matter even worse.

 

The biggest aid to Madness would be to re-add Maul into the rotation or an Assassinate Proc. Survivability issues just need flat damage reduction or other possible indirect benefits such as increased self healing.

 

Refer to more knowledgeable suggestions made by the Assassin community here or here.

You are reading this wrong, I am talking about the skill "Lambaste" in the Madness Tree, which is useless now.

And the purpose is to bring project back in the rotation. Either that or some Maul proc. I am not sure.

You are reading this wrong, I am talking about the skill "Lambaste" in the Madness Tree, which is useless now.

And the purpose is to bring project back in the rotation. Either that or some Maul proc. I am not sure.

I am reading it quite correct. Even with -15 force, Shock will actually be a detriment to Madness Assassins.

Are you aware of how the spec actually works?

It heavily utilizes Thrash / Double Strike whilst keeping up CT / Discharge. This is a gigantic force hog and because of that there is no room to add Shock, unless it was flat out free and did 60% more damage.

Just a thought.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7337146#post7337146

I am reading it quite correct. Even with -15 force, Shock will actually be a detriment to Madness Assassins.

 

Are you aware of how the spec actually works?

 

It heavily utilizes Thrash / Double Strike whilst keeping up CT / Discharge. This is a gigantic force hog and because of that there is no room to add Shock, unless it was flat out free and did 60% more damage.

good thing is Arenas will save Swtor PVP

Even with -15 force, Shock will actually be a detriment to Madness Assassins.

If that was the only change perhaps, but with this

[*]Lambaste now lets Project/Shock automatically proc Force Breach/Discharge on the target while in Force Technique/Lightning Charge.

that's not really true.

It seems to me like you're comparing the effectiveness of a cheaper shock to that of a filler (double strike), when what you should be comparing it to is Discharge. Torment plus an additional 15 reduced cost on shock puts it at 24 force, which - compared to using Discharge - essentially makes you spend 4 extra force in return for shock's damage (and this damage is indirectly off the gcd since you're adding shock to something you'd be doing anyway; applying discharge).

I am not saying this change is the way to go (I frankly don't have enough experience with shadows). But saying these changes will not be enough to make shock useful? That's just not true.

Lambaste now lets Project/Shock automatically proc Force Breach/Discharge on the target while in Force Technique/Lightning Charge.

This hardly solves anything, just makes the rotation smoother for the changes the OP suggested. (Where we move onto the core problem itself below)

 

I am not saying this change is the way to go (I frankly don't have enough experience with shadows). But saying these changes will not be enough to make shock useful? That's just not true.

*Shock* in itself will be probably be more useful. Shock with the Madness rotation won't. The Madness rotation is very simple and very tight: DF > CT > Discharge > Thrash (x2-6 depending on RNG) > MC. The rotation itself, without any other abilities is already begging for force so adding another ability into this needs to either:

• Hit very hard with a solid force cost reduction
  
• Or cost literally no force

A 25% Damage increase on shock even with a -15 force does not solve this issue as shock itself will still cost 30 Force and will do less damage than Maul. It's practically a gimped version of Duplicity which may hinder the Madness Assassin's rotation in the longrun.

We need Maul or Assassinate not Shock.

Dirty Fighting/Lethality

 

• Shrap Bomb/Corrosive Grenade now only affects one target.
  
• Concussion/Toxic Regulators will now give Shrap Bomb/Corrosive Grenade the aoe effect back.
  (Does not change anything if you take both skills, but now you can purposely make the aoe dot a single target dot)
  

What difference would this even make? I really don't see the point, please elaborate

 

*Shock* in itself will be probably be more useful. Shock with the Madness rotation won't. The Madness rotation is very simple and very tight: DF > CT > Discharge > Thrash (x2-6 depending on RNG) > MC.

Take a look at the suggestions again; Shock would be taking Discharge's place, not require a new spot on its own in the rotation. It'd be a 4 force more expensive Discharge (it would cost 24 with Torment, not 30) that also has a quite good up front damage to it. To put it in perspective, in practice it'd be the equivalent of your Discharge proccing an off gcd Shock doing 25% more damage.

Comparing it to Maul is not really fair either. It's like comparing Riposte to Dispatch or a charge of Shoulder Cannon to Rail Shot; they may not hit hard by themselves, but they're something you get on top of what you're already doing.

Edit: I'm not trying to pretend like I know what the spec actually needs, because I don't. Just saying this because some of what you have written seems to indicate you don't see exactly how the "rotation" would change

What difference would this even make? I really don't see the point, please elaborate

If you are playing a burst setup in arenas or want to chain cc the enemy healer, you don't have to fear doting somebody you did not even want to and messing up your allies ccs.

Next up will be sharpshooter/marksman.

The awkward rotation and immobility issues kinda put it behind the other two specs in arena.

Any suggestions?

Next up will be sharpshooter/marksman.

The awkward rotation and immobility issues kinda put it behind the other two specs in arena.

Any suggestions?

Hmm, maybe allow when you are Entrenched and out of Cover you can use Cover Abilities out of Cover? or Entrench granting 10% alacrity?

* Now added Sharpshooter/Marksmanship changes.

Not so many changes because the entrench buff really helps this spec a lot.

Please tell me what you think about them.

Hmm, maybe allow when you are Entrenched and out of Cover you can use Cover Abilities out of Cover? or Entrench granting 10% alacrity?

But what is the point of using cover abilities out of cover when for most of them you need to stand still to cast them?

Only really useful when you have your instant Snipe proc, Explosive Probe while moving only gives a slight advantage.

But what is the point of using cover abilities out of cover when for most of them you need to stand still to cast them?

Only really useful when you have your instant Snipe proc, Explosive Probe while moving only gives a slight advantage.

I was thinking Explosive Probe, and Insta Snipe, but past that, nothing...

Forget about it, bioware DEV team is dumb

I will not lose hope till Bioware gives a response.

We need Maul or Assassinate not Shock.

You mean some free Assassinate proc (like in Carnage, DF etc) that would be triggered by, let's say, a CD crit ?

I'm not against that, but i think it won't ne enough regarding force management in general (especially with 20s CD, but with a lower one it could be too much idk), i find myself much comfortable when running 0/20/26 or so...

Edit: Oh btw, gj OP for you work, much appreciated !