Sorry to burst ya bubble but Vader's midichlorian count is the highest known meaning his ability to use the force is greater. However, Bane was a better character and while based on statistics alone Vader would OWN Bane, I still think that Bane would hold his own.

Yet Obi-wan owned Vader so raw numbers don't count for much.

He got his revenge though sorta when he forced Obi-Wan to become one with the force.

Im not sure he forced him, he is putting up a fight with no problem then Luke shows up and he just gives up in a way as if he wanted Luke to see him get killed by Vader.

Yet Obi-wan owned Vader so raw numbers don't count for much.

Go read.

As for Bane vs Vader. Thats tough. Vader is suppose to be stronger according to the Rule of Two. But this may be the only fight where Vader's cybernetic body kills him. Bane with Orbalisk armour is crazy, but if he did a Dark Side Storm/Hurricane like he did, it would kill himself and Vader.

Vader wins with DUeling, hands down. Force battle on the other hand, I give it to Bane. It was said he mastered Force Lightning to the point where in one bolt he could kill a Jedi Knight. And his knowledge of the Dark Side goes past most SIth Lords including Revan, Vader, Krayt, etc. I'd say the Sith Lord with the most knowledge of the Dark Side was Plageuis. Palpatine failed to Live longer than normal using the Dark SIde. He had to rely on clones.

Personally, I think that Vader post Mustafar would have been nothing against any Sith Lord in a one on one fight.

If Vader was minus the armor I would say he could beat most of them.

I should point out no matter how strong Vader is the in force, all those cybernetics would put him at a total disadvantage. Keep in mind, while Vader DID kill the Emperor, the Emperor was totally focused on killing Luke at the time.

Also I should point out that Vader got beat by a Jedi (Luke) who barely had any training. I mean, how much time did he spend on Dagobah in ESB? A week, tops? Granted he had 6 months to hone his skills (I think that was the timeframe between ESB at RotJ..) But still...Considering that Vader was trained for 10 years, then spent a couple more years in constant warfare, slaughered just about every Jedi in the Jedi temple, supposedly hunted down the strays in the 20 years between RotS and ANH. I mean...How could Luke have POSSIBLY beat him with 6 months of training?

Add in the fact that Sith Lords are supposed to be stronger than Jedi who fall to the Darkside...Which Luke had briefly when he chopped off Vader's hand.

So yeah, anyway. Bane would wreck Vader post mustafar in any form.

Pre mustafar Vader would have been a more equal fight unless Bane had the Orbalisk armor, then Bane wins.

Personally, I think that Vader post Mustafar would have been nothing against any Sith Lord in a one on one fight.

 

If Vader was minus the armor I would say he could beat most of them.

 

I should point out no matter how strong Vader is the in force, all those cybernetics would put him at a total disadvantage. Keep in mind, while Vader DID kill the Emperor, the Emperor was totally focused on killing Luke at the time.

 

Also I should point out that Vader got beat by a Jedi (Luke) who barely had any training. I mean, how much time did he spend on Dagobah in ESB? A week, tops? Granted he had 6 months to hone his skills (I think that was the timeframe between ESB at RotJ..) But still...Considering that Vader was trained for 10 years, then spent a couple more years in constant warfare, slaughered just about every Jedi in the Jedi temple, supposedly hunted down the strays in the 20 years between RotS and ANH. I mean...How could Luke have POSSIBLY beat him with 6 months of training?

 

Add in the fact that Sith Lords are supposed to be stronger than Jedi who fall to the Darkside...Which Luke had briefly when he chopped off Vader's hand.

 

So yeah, anyway. Bane would wreck Vader post mustafar in any form.

Pre mustafar Vader would have been a more equal fight unless Bane had the Orbalisk armor, then Bane wins.

He was trying to turn Luke and he didn't want to kill his son. Not only did Vader kill almost every Jedi in the Temple, but he killed some of the most powerful Jedi during the period. Read the feats he accomplished in Suit. He mastered Makashi and Djem So. He was an unstoppable machine. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Darth_Vader

Go read.

 

 

 

As for Bane vs Vader. Thats tough. Vader is suppose to be stronger according to the Rule of Two. But this may be the only fight where Vader's cybernetic body kills him. Bane with Orbalisk armour is crazy, but if he did a Dark Side Storm/Hurricane like he did, it would kill himself and Vader.

 

Vader wins with DUeling, hands down. Force battle on the other hand, I give it to Bane. It was said he mastered Force Lightning to the point where in one bolt he could kill a Jedi Knight. And his knowledge of the Dark Side goes past most SIth Lords including Revan, Vader, Krayt, etc. I'd say the Sith Lord with the most knowledge of the Dark Side was Plageuis. Palpatine failed to Live longer than normal using the Dark SIde. He had to rely on clones.

Why do you give it to Bane simply because one bolt can kill a Jedi when Sidious was capable of incinerating Jedi with his own lightning and Vader has the highest resistance to force lightning out of any Jedi?

My point is Sidious is capable of force lightning of that level and Vader still withstood it for a good deal of time. As for Sidious knowledge in the force...

"Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over an entire galaxy. What has proven to be the lasting genius of Palpatine as Emperor is his devotion to collecting all the knowledge of the Dark Side that he can, as well as what Light Side information he can corrupt and preserve. He is no more altruistic than any other, but his newfound immortality has given him the patience that all before him have lacked."

Note that Bane spent a great deal of time aquiring as many ancient sith artifacts that he could as well as teachings. Each of these teachings were passed on. Sidious learned from Plagueis and after Plaugeis death had these teachings at his disposal.

bane for sure... since he got way more essence (vader lost to many body parts) and his lightsaber skills just out class vader.

so des ... erm Bane ... is going to win that fight for sure!

and if not hes going to transfer his body to vader and own him that ways (hopfully hes not failing the same as vs zannah)

Darth Bane. Enough said.

i like!

Why do you give it to Bane simply because one bolt can kill a Jedi when Sidious was capable of incinerating Jedi with his own lightning and Vader has the highest resistance to force lightning out of any Jedi?

 

My point is Sidious is capable of force lightning of that level and Vader still withstood it for a good deal of time. As for Sidious knowledge in the force...

 

"Only Palpatine has been able to spread his darkness completely and totally over an entire galaxy. What has proven to be the lasting genius of Palpatine as Emperor is his devotion to collecting all the knowledge of the Dark Side that he can, as well as what Light Side information he can corrupt and preserve. He is no more altruistic than any other, but his newfound immortality has given him the patience that all before him have lacked."

 

Note that Bane spent a great deal of time aquiring as many ancient sith artifacts that he could as well as teachings. Each of these teachings were passed on. Sidious learned from Plagueis and after Plaugeis death had these teachings at his disposal.

I see. I never said Sidious couldn't produce such lightning. And Plageuis achieved things Palpatine hasn't from my knowledge. Where has he produced the essence of life through the Dark Side? Saved people from dying? Retain one's identity with the Force while becoming one with it?

And this isn't Bane vs Sidious. Bane would be demolished, its Bane vs Vader. And what did Sidious teach Vader, all I see is the Sith Language. And if Sidious didn't teach Vader anything, that breaks the line of RoT of knowledge being passed between Master and Apprentice.

The rule of two dont Work with sidius he Killd his master in his sleepand broke the rule there for he is weak

He had no intention of Vader taking the mandle

Bane would Obliterate Vader

Also I should point out that Vader got beat by a Jedi (Luke) who barely had any training. I mean, how much time did he spend on Dagobah in ESB? A week, tops? Granted he had 6 months to hone his skills (I think that was the timeframe between ESB at RotJ..)

It was actually 4 years between ESB and ROTJ, and by ROTJ Luke was a fully trained jedi knight.

I see. I never said Sidious couldn't produce such lightning. And Plageuis achieved things Palpatine hasn't from my knowledge. Where has he produced the essence of life through the Dark Side? Saved people from dying? Retain one's identity with the Force while becoming one with it?

 

 

And this isn't Bane vs Sidious. Bane would be demolished, its Bane vs Vader. And what did Sidious teach Vader, all I see is the Sith Language. And if Sidious didn't teach Vader anything, that breaks the line of RoT of knowledge being passed between Master and Apprentice.

Sith taught Vader much. Vader used Sith amulets in his gloves. He learned to make Sith artifacts from Sidious. I'm sure he was also still learning Saber combat from him as well. I bring up Sidious because Vader is 80% more than Sidious. No one has managed to successfully clone Jedi. Sidious succeeded. So has Vader. I assume midichlorian manipulation is the result of this but the force unleashed series hasn't shed light on this yet and neither has Dark Empire.

Prevent others from dying.. why would Sidious care for such a power? He only cares about himself. Keeping others alive simply isn't his thing. He also knew powers Plagueis did not. Such as being able to open wormholes in the force. We also don't know if Plagueis studied light side teachings. Which Sidious did. Not because he wanted to use the light side but he was seeing if their were teachings that he could corrupt and use through the dark side.

The Rule of Two was designed as a rule to enable the Sith to destroy the Jedi. Sidious succeeded in this. He didn't need to follow it anymore. He believed the rule of two accomplished what it was meant to do. Still, he showed some other signs that he was still following it. Such as wanting a stronger apprentice. Vader achieved his limit (due to being confined to his suit.)

Vader could withstand a continuous barrage of lightning for over 30 seconds. I'm not talking Sith lightning. I mean, lightning lightning. Which is what Galen used on Vader to subdue him. Lightning has the same temperature as the surface of the sun. The only reason people live through it is because lightning is so quick. It's not quick if he's being barraged by it for 30 seconds. From another Sith capable of destroying AT-AT's with his lightning alone and destroying entire squads of storm troopers with a single gout.

Vader is far far from being weak against force lightning. This just goes to show.. Sidious lightning is even stronger if it killed Vader. Even so.. Vader withstood it long enough to toss him down the death star main reactor. Vader is severely underestimated.

Personally, I'm not claiming "Vader will win." but it's hard to say. Vader has some insane feats of his own but the main reason people say Vader will win is "He has force lightning." when really it's a non issue. Vader built his suit in the first force unleashed specifically to deal with extremely powerful Force Lightning.

As for Zhen. Sidious killed Plagueis when he had the power and skill to do so. That's the only time he struck. Vader could NOT take the mantle from Sidious. No matter how much he trained. He already lost too much of his potential from mustafar.

Sith taught Vader much. Vader used Sith amulets in his gloves. He learned to make Sith artifacts from Sidious. I'm sure he was also still learning Saber combat from him as well. I bring up Sidious because Vader is 80% more than Sidious. No one has managed to successfully clone Jedi. Sidious succeeded. So has Vader. I assume midichlorian manipulation is the result of this but the force unleashed series hasn't shed light on this yet and neither has Dark Empire.

 

Prevent others from dying.. why would Sidious care for such a power? He only cares about himself. Keeping others alive simply isn't his thing. He also knew powers Plagueis did not. Such as being able to open wormholes in the force. We also don't know if Plagueis studied light side teachings. Which Sidious did. Not because he wanted to use the light side but he was seeing if their were teachings that he could corrupt and use through the dark side.

 

I don't know why Sidious would want such a power. But then again, records say he tried to achieve such power and failed. So he must have had a reason to want it. And its not like he never saved anyone, He saved just about everyone of his apprentices except for Dooku/Tyrannus.

And where does it say Vader had Sith Artifacts in his gloves and Sidious teaching him to make Sith Artifacts? I wasn't claiming Plageuis could defeat Sid, I was claiming that I think Plageuis had more knowledge of the Dark Side more than Sid. Sidious could destroy Plaeguis and other Sith with ease. In his return he nearly killed Luke and Leia, one of them being the most powerful Mortal and the other being nearly as strong.

I don't know why Sidious would want such a power. But then again, records say he tried to achieve such power and failed. So he must have had a reason to want it. And its not like he never saved anyone, He saved just about everyone of his apprentices except for Dooku/Tyrannus.

And where does it say Vader had Sith Artifacts in his gloves and Sidious teaching him to make Sith Artifacts? I wasn't claiming Plageuis could defeat Sid, I was claiming that I think Plageuis had more knowledge of the Dark Side more than Sid. Sidious could destroy Plaeguis and other Sith with ease. In his return he nearly killed Luke and Leia, one of them being the most powerful Mortal and the other being nearly as strong.

I can't recall the exact source for Vader's Sith artifacts. So I will render it mute. Still, knowing one more thing than someone else doesn't make you more knowledgeable. Especially considering we don't know how good Plagueis was at it. Sith had powers that Plagueis didn't. The force wormhole wasn't a point to show Sidious power. It's a power plagueis didn't have. He learned the most powerful force technique in Star Wars history. Wise doesn't mean all knowing. Wise can be patient, more thought out, Plagueis may have been more careful and less arrogant than Sidious.

Yet Obi-wan owned Vader so raw numbers don't count for much.

He didn't win through power. He won through experience and tactics. In Ep III, he says to Vader, "I have the high ground, don't try it". Vader, over confident in his abilities tries to leap over Obi-Wan anyway, and gets sliced up for his efforts.

Nothing in that scenario was down to Obi-Wan being more powerful. Merely more tactful.

He didn't win through power. He won through experience and tactics. In Ep III, he says to Vader, "I have the high ground, don't try it". Vader, over confident in his abilities tries to leap over Obi-Wan anyway, and gets sliced up for his efforts.

 

Nothing in that scenario was down to Obi-Wan being more powerful. Merely more tactful.

Yeah that was kind of the point I was getting at. People were basing this Vader vs thing on his raw power for a few posts.

Sidious lightning is even stronger if it killed Vader

The lightning did not directly kill Vader.

The Lightning destroyed what was keeping Vader alive, and thus Vader was killed as his suit malfunctionated.