As the title says...why are Operatives/Mercenaries mad at the forums for all the QQ over their classes? I'm not saying I enjoy fighting these classes either, but I don't think people understand the implications of why they are being adjusted (nerfed).

People are angry at Operatives(Smugglers) because of their ability to keep someone nearly perma-stunned and being able to 3-4 shot people in PvP. (World of Roguecraft all over again).

@ Ops: You honestly felt like 3 shotting people was right? You honestly thought that people not being able to counter you at all, even though they use their CC break was right? People don't mind crowd control abilities if they are somewhat balanced, but people do not like complete loss of control of their character, and in that same duration going from 100%-0%.

That's a failure of game balance, and IMO a failure of adding a stealth burst class. (Why must every stealth class also be a burst class?...For that matter why even have stealth? Nothing but problems ever come up with stealth classes)

The 2nd thing I've noticed on the forums is players angry at Mercenaries(Commandos).

While people are obviously frustrated at the amount of tools in their kit (Heavy Armor, Heals, Damage that goes through most defenses, PBAoE Knockback) the main frustrating is really a balance of quality of life.

What I mean by this is most people on these classes spam either Tracer Missle or Grav Round. Over and over and over. The problem people have with this is the class becomes stupidly oversimplified. The developers should have seen this coming, if you create a crazy synergized build with a very good dps ability as the core of the build, you're going to have people spam that attack.

The problem other classes have with this is that they have to use a variety of abilities at their disposal to get the same effect. The result? While a juggernaut has to use various abilities and tactical use and timing of them to put out adequate DPS, a Mercenary can literally just spam one button to get the same result. It boils down to where one class has to put significantly less effort into playing their class then another. Players realize this and ask "Why was this class made to be used so easily, and this other class not?"

Again, why are these players mad at the QQ being directed at their class? There are obvious flaws in both of these class designs, one being too much burst (which is being fixed in 1.1.1) the other being an oversimplied class (DPS wise) with too many tools at their disposal (Defensively).

Why are mercs annoyed? Most likely because of the whiney guys who are extremely bad complaining about them when they're not overpowered, they're simple to play, easy to counter but bads who allow them to spam tracer missile/grav round on them come here to complain.

I don't allow mercs to missile spam. I force charge(counts as an interrupt), use my interrupt, force choke, use interrupt again, force push, force charge again (still interrupts/roots with full resolve). As an Immortal spec Jugg i won't be able to kill them unless I get lucky but they usually will get frustrated and focus someone else.

The frustration with fighting a merc comes from where they can just essentially spam 1 button, (ease of use) versus where I have to use a variety of abilities *in every fight* in order to reach the same effect. It's whats called a quality of life improvement. Either lower the skillcap on other classes where they have such a powerful spammable tool at their disposal, or increase the skillcap on mercs.

I don't allow mercs to missile spam. I force charge(counts as an interrupt), use my interrupt, force choke, use interrupt again, force push, force charge again (still interrupts/roots with full resolve). As an Immortal spec Jugg i won't be able to kill them unless I get lucky but they usually will get frustrated and focus someone else.

 

The frustration with fighting a merc comes from where they can just essentially spam 1 button, (ease of use) versus where I have to use a variety of abilities *in every fight* in order to reach the same effect. It's whats called a quality of life improvement. Either lower the skillcap on other classes where they have such a powerful spammable tool at their disposal, or increase the skillcap on mercs.

Mercs get angry at the idiots that just want tracer/grav nerfed, i think i can speak for a majority of mercs when i say that i would REALLY like if BW remade the skills BUT NO NERF. I mean ive done hardmode flashpoints while surfing ffs just because the arsenal spec is so simple and with no interrupts.

I got so bored and tired of the god awful merc tracer animation that i changed to bodyguard instead (healer).

I don't allow mercs to missile spam. I force charge(counts as an interrupt), use my interrupt, force choke, use interrupt again, force push, force charge again (still interrupts/roots with full resolve). As an Immortal spec Jugg i won't be able to kill them unless I get lucky but they usually will get frustrated and focus someone else.

 

The frustration with fighting a merc comes from where they can just essentially spam 1 button, (ease of use) versus where I have to use a variety of abilities *in every fight* in order to reach the same effect. It's whats called a quality of life improvement. Either lower the skillcap on other classes where they have such a powerful spammable tool at their disposal, or increase the skillcap on mercs.

How easy certain classes are to play shouldn't annoy you, what should matter is how powerful a class is when played well, and a merc is not that powerful.

Also, only idiots spam tracer missile and they should be no problem for most classes to take down.

How easy certain classes are to play shouldn't annoy you, what should matter is how powerful a class is when played well, and a merc is not that powerful.

 

Also, only idiots spam tracer missile and they should be no problem for most classes to take down.

Actually it does. Because good PvP play requires binds, I have most of my skills bound, but I feel like I need the dexterity of a professional pianist to be able to function properly in PvP.

I'm actually upgrading from my Razer DeathAdder to the Naga just so I can have more keybinds that are within easy reach (thumb).

If you use less skills to come to the same end result, it requires less stress.

Edit: Forget it. You're just defending your merc blindly without looking at the situation from an unbiased standpoint. And mercs are powerful when played properly as well as improperly. There's a difference but there isn't much there between a well played merc and not. That's kinda my point.

The 2nd thing I've noticed on the forums is players angry at Mercenaries(Commandos).

 

While people are obviously frustrated at the amount of tools in their kit (Heavy Armor, Heals, Damage that goes through most defenses, PBAoE Knockback) the main frustrating is really a balance of quality of life.

 

What I mean by this is most people on these classes spam either Tracer Missle or Grav Round. Over and over and over. The problem people have with this is the class becomes stupidly oversimplified. The developers should have seen this coming, if you create a crazy synergized build with a very good dps ability as the core of the build, you're going to have people spam that attack.

 

The problem other classes have with this is that they have to use a variety of abilities at their disposal to get the same effect.

Well to be fair, the above also describes Sorcs/Sages except for the heavy armor part. But I have to also point out, that both Mercs and Sorcs are easy to counter. If they were hard to kill I'd agree with the QQ, but they're not.

Actually it does. Because good PvP play requires binds, I have most of my skills bound, but I feel like I need the dexterity of a professional pianist to be able to function properly in PvP.

 

Edit: Forget it. You're just defending your merc blindly without looking at the situation from an unbiased standpoint. And mercs are powerful when played properly as well as improperly. There's a difference but there isn't much there between a well played merc and not. That's kinda my point.

Hehe, I feel your buddy. I run Marauder, and I completely agree. However, I find it extremely satisfying and rewarding to destroy a similarly geared and knowledgeable player of a different class because for me, particularly, it means I played my character right. If I don't, then I die. Really quickly and painfully...

The game is still young though, I have high hopes for BW. I love my Mara and the skill cap it has. It keeps me going.

A big problem with these forums is that people only notice the casted abilities. You see a lot of people say Sorcerers spam Force Lightening. They don't take into account an Inquisitor using Death Field, Shock, Chain Lightening, Crushing Darkness or Affliction because many of these are either instant cast or casted in scenarios that make them instant casts (wrath procs).

For Mercenaries/Commandos, it's similar. A lot of people notice Arsenal Tracer Missile cast because the spec requires you to stack 3 Tracer Missiles on the target for the heavy hitter abilities to deal significant damage. Heatseeker Missiles and Rail Shot are what cause the severe amount of damage that Mercenaries/Commandos do. Unload, with Barrage procs, can really bring the pain as well. When you get clumps, you utilize Explosive Dart + DfA + Fusion Missile.

A good Mercenary doesn't stop at his damage arsenal. He uses Electro-dart, Jet Boost, Energy Shield, Vent Heat, Stealth Scan, Power Surge, Thermal Sensor Override, Rocket Punch, Cure, Healing Scan + Rapid Healing Scan and Determination. Aside from the heals, these are all instant casts with short or non-existent animations.

In PvE, you will not be able to spam Tracer Missile because it overheats you immediately.

In PvP, good players will always decimate an Arsenal Mercenary for his reliance on getting those 3 tracer missiles to utilize the instant cast abilities. A lack of an interrupt hurts the Mercenary in competitive PvP.

Without a doubt in my mind, Pyrotech is a far better specialization for PvP as a Mercenary. You can see from Endeav's streams that, effortlessly, he destroys other Gunnery/Arsenal Commandos/Mercenaries. You can look for yourself the power of Assault/Pyrotech for Commandos/Mercenaries:

http://www.twitch.tv/endeav

So If I understand you, you think its cool that people can be angry and cry for nerfs, against a class, but if that class feels like its unfair, they should just suck it up and shut the heck up?

Love it.

I also love how people want to ignore the fact that there is no official 1v1 PVP in this game. Its team based. So because you can't work as a team or want to 1v1 and get taken out by a OP they obviously need to be nerfed.

And because people see Merc using TM all the time they think its a 1 button class that needs that 1 button nerfed, when that 1 button essentially charges other abilities that are doing a ton of damage, but hey ignorance is bliss. And never mid the classes lack of mobility, lack of an interrupt, vulneability to interrupts and LOS.

Either way someone got their feelings hurt and instead of approaching it from an understanding of the classes strengths and weaknesses, proposing buffing something in another class to counter if need be, suggesting a shift of mechanics, or perhaps even learnign how to counter anothers strength, they whine that something is OP and it needs to be nerfed.

And why stop at OPs and Mercs, aren't you tired of all the lightening spam? They only have 1 button too, right? Nerf Sorcs. Nerf everyone! Nerf them all!

But please if someone gets mad and wants to nerf you, don't defend yourself, just shut the heck up.

What I mean by this is most people on these classes spam either Tracer Missle or Grav Round. Over and over and over. The problem people have with this is the class becomes stupidly oversimplified. The developers should have seen this coming, if you create a crazy synergized build with a very good dps ability as the core of the build, you're going to have people spam that attack.

 

The problem other classes have with this is that they have to use a variety of abilities at their disposal to get the same effect. The result? While a juggernaut has to use various abilities and tactical use and timing of them to put out adequate DPS, a Mercenary can literally just spam one button to get the same result. It boils down to where one class has to put significantly less effort into playing their class then another. Players realize this and ask "Why was this class made to be used so easily, and this other class not?"

I really have to wonder at the sort of attitude that gets upset over this. (Let's assume for the sake of argument that your characterization of this class is correct.) What is the problem with the developers saying "There are some people who really enjoy classes that are complex and some people who prefer things a bit more simple. Let's design different classes so each player has a option that fits their preference"? Why do people who enjoy complexity, and therefore choose to go with a class that offers that complexity, then complain that a less complex class can hold its own just as well? Or why do people who are miserable with the choice they've made insist that everyone else should be just as miserable instead of just making a different choice? For crying out loud people--it's a game! Can't you have fun AND also let other people have fun at it even if they aren't a clone of you?

People who complain about Mercs are people who don't know hot to interrupt.

Ops are mad because they seem to think they didn't need to be nerfed but they did.

People are angry at Operatives(Smugglers) because of their ability to keep someone nearly perma-stunned and being able to 3-4 shot people in PvP. (World of Roguecraft all over again).

we can perma stun? where was i when this change was made? because last time i checked after our one opener 3 second stun we couldnt stun again for some time. and its pretty rare that someone is killed in 3 hits, if it still happens.

You honestly felt like 3 shotting people was right? You honestly thought that people not being able to counter you at all, even though they use their CC break was right?

if you cant counter an operative or scoundrel, with or without your cc breaker, then might i suggest Hello Kitty Island? Thats more your skill level. Honestly i dont see the point of comming on the forums and greatly exaggerating or not knowing what your talking about. it doesnt get any point across besides the fact that just one more person is getting their facts from the QQ posts or the occasional youtube video. and i use the term *facts* lightly.

yes i dont understand it neither, BH/troper only spam 1 butom, and 1 more each 15 secs and they are first and second on dmg on 90% warzones that i do.

oh and they have the best aoe dmg on the game with the same defense as tanks.

buut, they get angry when u tell them that they class is too easy to game because they all thinks that are the best players, not that they play the easiest class on the game.

People are angry at Operatives(Smugglers) because of their ability to keep someone nearly perma-stunned and being able to 3-4 shot people in PvP. (World of Roguecraft all over again).

 

@ Ops: You honestly felt like 3 shotting people was right? You honestly thought that people not being able to counter you at all, even though they use their CC break was right? People don't mind crowd control abilities if they are somewhat balanced, but people do not like complete loss of control of their character, and in that same duration going from 100%-0%.

 

That's a failure of game balance, and IMO a failure of adding a stealth burst class. (Why must every stealth class also be a burst class?...For that matter why even have stealth? Nothing but problems ever come up with stealth classes)

Ops aren't necessarily mad for having their opener nerfed. They're mad for having their opener nerfed without anything to compensate. No one fears an op after they're out of stealth, because they're squishier than the light armor class.

Even worse, PvE was affected dramatically for something that was specifically a PvP issue. If Bioware wanted fewer complaints, they should have upped the op's sustained damage while reducing the burst. Instead they just made a knee-jerk reaction that pisses off one class so the others will stop complaining.

OP conveniently missed out sorcs/sages, which I'm guessing is his class. Most QQ threads are about sorcs nowadays.

There goes the nerf-everything-that-isn't-inquis bandwagon.

yes i dont understand it neither, BH/troper only spam 1 butom, and 1 more each 15 secs and they are first and second on dmg on 90% warzones that i do.

oh and they have the best aoe dmg on the game with the same defense as tanks.

 

buut, they get angry when u tell them that they class is too easy to game because they all thinks that are the best players, not that they play the easiest class on the game.

You must mean the turrets that are arsenal and gunnery. Grav round/Tracer Missile have a 1.5 second cast and we need 3 stacks of Gravity Vortex/Heat Signature to make Rail Shot/High Impact Bolt and Full Auto/Unload, Power Shot/Charged Bolts, Blaster Sweep/Whatever-commando-version-is-called and the final abilities at the top of the tree to do the most damage.

Grav Rounds/Tracer Missile? Those are the abilities you see us using, and we rarely use Power Shot/Charged Bolts, so you'll just see us use our instant cast abilities that benefit the most from procs and increased damage.

How did I find all this out? By rolling a Gunnery Commando and Arsenal Merc.

Besides, the rightmost tree is better for pvp anyway since it's mostly elemental/internal damage that allows for far more mobility when compared to Gunnery/Assault.

lmao i really don't understand , i got spankd on my bh merc by a rouge everytime i duel (and i was 34 and he was 29) i then made a sniper class first game i playd at level 15 i got 160k damage and 7 medals.... i really don't think critting for 2k with tracer missles is op

1. because it takes a long time to hit...and as a sniper i can use 100% crit and hit 3ks...

2. its not like we spam tracer missle because its op , no its because it procs other spells like rail shot , unload

3. dont forget we have spells like rocket punch and shoulder slam ... need to be 4m and it does 700 damage woot op nerf

I play every class in PvP, and merc/arsenal requires as many keybinds as any other class.

A merc who just spams tracer missile is doing a fraction of his potential damage. It's the core ability of the spec because it procs 2 different buffs and a debuff on the merc's target, but to play a merc effectively requires using a multitude of overlapping abilities.

No doubt that tracer missile is the most used ability in PvP, but "most used" still equates to maybe 25% at most if you're doing it right.

So if you want to say that merc has highest skill floor (it gets the most results from very little effort) that's fine, but just realize that if a merc is wiping the floor with you spamming one button (or even just 4-5 buttons), then you are god awful, and even if mercs were made more complex by default, you'd still be getting rolled by any competent player on any class.

yes i dont understand it neither, BH/troper only spam 1 butom, and 1 more each 15 secs and they are first and second on dmg on 90% warzones that i do.

oh and they have the best aoe dmg on the game with the same defense as tanks.

 

buut, they get angry when u tell them that they class is too easy to game because they all thinks that are the best players, not that they play the easiest class on the game.

My only advice is that you roll a trooper to 50 and get in the thick of things. Not that sissy baby 1-49 stuff. Get to 50 and go against other skilled geared players. I'm a gunnery commando and I'm actually fascinated to read this 1-button stuff. It doesn't happen on my server Port to Nowhere. Maybe the sith just know I'm a threat and hound me but I spend the majority of my time doing concussion charge and reactive shield more so than worrying about grav round stacking and demo round.

And you say that we think we're the best players? Have you ever considered that maybe...just maybe it looks so easy because a good player makes it look that way. Any gunnery commando that can "without fail" stack grav round - sticky grenade - Demo - HiB deserves the kill because it is the opponent who is inept.

That rotation is 1.5 secs + 1.5 seconds + 1.5 seconds + global cooldown + global cooldown + global cooldown.

Pardon my language, but if you're too stupid a player to LoS, vanish, interrupt, stun, CC, or otherwise incapacitate me through out the whole of that rotation then I'm not the problem, you are. And even being a geared BM there are still players that live through the rotation. Maybe it's just the sith on my server, but I never feel OP'ed. I do a metric ton of damage but that is due to me bobbing and weaving, hiding, angling, and using terrain. I play the class to its strengths and if you think that makes me an easy mode or bad player then I wonder just what the hell you're doing with your character that makes you feel so inadequate.

Tracer missle OP??? One button Tracer Missle spammers? HUH, what? I'm going to take a guess that if you think one or both are true (esp the later), you have no idea how the class work and/or have never even played one. As it's been pointed out numberous times by previous posters Tracer Missle is our primary nuke as it does the following:

Stacks an Armor Pen debuff on target

Stacks a buff that increases Rail Shot damage

Procs Riddle which resets Unloads GCD and increases it's damage by 25%

With the above stated, why do you think that you're going to see Tracer Missle spammed 2-3 times in a row? The rest of our abilities have GCD's that we have to manage. Yes, we have Power Shot, which most of us use when TM has been interupted, but Power Shot doesn't do any of the above and it's not really worth using from a Damage per Heat perspective.

Now, if you let us stay at range and just complete unload and kill you over and over, then yes, it may seem OP, but in that case it's entirely your own fault. LoS us and get in close. Our play style complete changes when you get into melee range and force us on the defensive. If you don't believe me, go ask the Maurader, Assassin, or Op who can take me down in Melee ranged about half the time.

It never ceases to amaze me at the "OMG NERF NERF NERF QQ" crowd in these games. Last time I checked, most MMO's are a team game and pvp balance is never based around 1v1, at least until the community pipes in. Look at Op's/Smug's now. Yes, they might have needed to be toned down in 1-2 things, but the overall nerf bat that they are taking seems a bit much. So go on, continue your QQing and crying about certain classes being OP, but when they come down and beat your class into the ground, you'll have no one other than yourself to blame.

Tracer missle OP??? One button Tracer Missle spammers? HUH, what? I'm going to take a guess that if you think one or both are true (esp the later), you have no idea how the class work and/or have never even played one. As it's been pointed out numberous times by previous posters Tracer Missle is our primary nuke as it does the following:

 

Stacks an Armor Pen debuff on target

Stacks a buff that increases Rail Shot damage

Procs Riddle which resets Unloads GCD and increases it's damage by 25%

 

With the above stated, why do you think that you're going to see Tracer Missle spammed 2-3 times in a row? The rest of our abilities have GCD's that we have to manage. Yes, we have Power Shot, which most of us use when TM has been interupted, but Power Shot doesn't do any of the above and it's not really worth using from a Damage per Heat perspective.

 

Now, if you let us stay at range and just complete unload and kill you over and over, then yes, it may seem OP, but in that case it's entirely your own fault. LoS us and get in close. Our play style complete changes when you get into melee range and force us on the defensive. If you don't believe me, go ask the Maurader, Assassin, or Op who can take me down in Melee ranged about half the time.

 

It never ceases to amaze me at the "OMG NERF NERF NERF QQ" crowd in these games. Last time I checked, most MMO's are a team game and pvp balance is never based around 1v1, at least until the community pipes in. Look at Op's/Smug's now. Yes, they might have needed to be toned down in 1-2 things, but the overall nerf bat that they are taking seems a bit much. So go on, continue your QQing and crying about certain classes being OP, but when they come down and beat your class into the ground, you'll have no one other than yourself to blame.

AMEN

Can't say it better, totally agree.

The only people complaining about Mercs are the ones that get spanked and have never played the class.

Ha. its funny because all of the players that do complain about Tracer/Grav probably have no idea what they're doing.