every ranked I play where the team focuses the healer is a win for me, the only win I ever got otherwise was when the healer of the imp team decided to leave, followed by his tank guard a minute later. Every match I have played where the healer of the other team was untouched by my team was a loss. They hit one of the people benefitting from the heals instead of hitting the source, excuse is " its stupid to go after the guy with the instant heals and escapes" ever heard of stun? besides those guys are not immortal like everyone thinks, When you kill the healer in ranked even if he is guarded you win, people see guard as a deterrent, just some carefully calculated stuns and interrupts makes the scoundrel or operative die, and without him or her healing the enemy team is left with only medpacs, and to all of you who will likely try to poke holes in that or say I am lying, I am working on posting pictures of my wins with scoundrel/operative healers on the losing team to prove that yes, good dps from a team along with smart stuns and interrupts can take out an operative/scoundrel healer, as it is I have had 7 out of 15 wins and almost all of those wins were with operative/scoundrel heals in them ( was fun had some guys who I kept getting yesterday who were very good at dps, they took them out before the enemy team got me allowing me to heal my team longer and be of more use, to the point I got a lot of MVP votes.

biggest joke

Focusing healers and **** is actually advanced PVP lol, the mouth-breathers I group with in pugs still struggle with basics, especially Hypergate map.

Yes this is at 55 too.

as it is I have had 7 out of 15 wins and almost all of those wins were with operative/scoundrel heals in them

7 out of 15, eh? So basically, a losing record....

have to support Exilove here with his statement. I am really suprised that folks are seriously shouting for the "kill healer first" paradigm. The primary target ALWAYS depends on the team setup.

A guarded scoundrel / operative has a 14 second cooldown on its defensive pops IF ONGOINGLY attacked. Better focus an un-guarded dps to take off the entire pressure on the own team's healer. It is just non-sense to try to focus down a guarded scoundrel / operative. In case of a sage / sorc or merc / commando healer, the situation is totally different, even if guarded...

Hint: check HP bars before you set your team's focus target. This helps you to derive the enemy team's gear level. A health level between 31k-32k is usually fully augmented obroan, everything non-tanky with +32k uses PVE gear, everything below 30k or above 32k is usually a very nice focus target (in any case, avoid to focus tanks)

Started grinding for better (e.g., any) PvP gear on my 55 DPS vanguard recently, so currently just playing unranked 8x8s. I'm doing it wrong because I'm wearing my raid gear so my expertise is under 1600. But that's not the point, the point is:

I get into a Hypergates last night, having queued as a group w/a sage from my guild. Not only are we saddled with a bunch of derps (like the "cap and run away instead of guarding") types, the other side -- which, I think, included a Unicorn Stampede crew -- are all much better geared as well as being better skilled. They're simply owning us at mid, focus firing us like crazy. (At one point I had 5 people focusing and chain-stunning me while my sage desperately tried to heal me.)

At one point, one of my derp teammates types in chat, in all caps, KILL THE HEALER. I replied, "Are you ****ting me? The healer is the LEAST of the problems right now."

Point being, it's conventional wisdom for people who think they're good at PvP to yell KILL THE HEALER all the time, but they're generally unable to assess the bigger picture.

(The numbers told the tale btw - nobody on my team put out more than 400k damage, while three of theirs managed over 700k.)

Really people, I'm tired. Every WZ I manage to mark all the healers of the other team and I'm tired of seeing that almost nobody gives a f*ck. Even if I write in the ops chat "kill the healer marked" nobody does nothing....people still tryes to kill other targets that ARE BEING HEALED instead of healers.

 

If this is the way I should play pug WZ's I will start doing the same...not giving a f*ck about healers and objectives. It seems is the only way people plays this game.

This is more complicated than just target is marked attack. There are many things that determines whom and where to attack. Example, if we are in VS defensive round, killing enemy healers is low priority, because the idea is to keep enemies from planting not to wipe them, plus the healer will respawn and be back in 10-15 secs. On the other hand, in the offense round, healers are number one priority to attack, as the idea is that you want to wipe the opposition to plant the bomb. At to that what type of healer is he/she and guarded or not. How geared and skilled. How organized is the opposition. In some instances and for some classes it is more meaningful to no attack the healers.

Of course, the majority do not understand the basics, which can be frustrating sometimes, but just that there is a mark on a target does not necessarily mean he/she are number one priority in every situation.

I just don't plan to play with my Healer in PvP for the next time, simply because I'm almost ALWAYS targeted first.

I don't want to play a bait class anymore.

Precisely. Another approach is CC healers and attack DPS in order to relieve pressure off your healer. Doing this will eliminate pressure and force pressure on the other healers, setting them behind. If your DPS is good enough once behind it makes it very difficult to catch up.

Dead DPS .....NO DPS

At one point, one of my derp teammates types in chat, in all caps, KILL THE HEALER. I replied, "Are you ****ting me? The healer is the LEAST of the problems right now."

But he said it in all caps. Doesn't that make it right?

Seriously, can't your target also depend on YOUR role? I am usually a tank. I always try to attack/cc/peel DPS who are attacking our healers. Should I be stopping that to go after their healer? (Ignoring that I do pitiful DPS because I suck at it.) I don't think so. My "simple-brain" priority has always been - someone capping, then whoever is attacking my team mates most effectively (be it "my" healer or whoever), then whoever is already being damaged by one of my team mates and at this last stage I'll picked someone marked if there is a candidate. (Although, sometimes I am defeated by tab targeting in trying to pick a specific enemy to go after. )

Sorry to say this, and I'll likely get flamed for it, but......

Healing is WAY over powered right now; for some classes, less so for others. Commandos/mercs are, IMHO are where they should be, sorc/sages are a little too capable of healing while ops/scoundrels are far far ahead of where they should be.

Let me explain.

Healing should NEVER be nearly as potent as dps. It has always been, historically and logically, easier to destroy things than it is to create or heal. Healing shouldn't prevent death entirely, but only extend the amount of time before death would occur. But right now, this isn't the case. As it is, an op can keep and entire team alive with little to no resource management needed, and when combined with their own healing they have some incredible survivability.

Some say ops/scouns are not OP....likely because they play the class and don't want them hit with the nerf bat. Some also say that a healer should never be killable by one person. On this I disagree. Again, going back to what I said earlier about it has always been easier to destroy than to create philosophy, a single dps should be ABLE to kill a healer, unguarded of course, not quickly but it should be possible. I'm NOT saying healers should be free kills or anything, just that they shouldn't be able to completely counter damage completely. Again, healing should extend how long you live, not make you immortal. It should be a battle of attrition, not a "oh crap they have 3 ops healers, we're screwed!"

Mandos/mercs are where all healers should be, and the other 2 healing classes brought down to their level. And I honestly think it would improve things. The way healing is, specifically ops/scoun heals are right now, when combined with the over abundance of CC, it's just too much. Make people have to work at it a bit rather than being ROFL mode. If an op/scoun can heal through stupid, then their healing IS over powered.

Good healers will still excel, but bad ones will quickly be outted for making so many mistakes. Hopefully, learning from their mistakes.

And this is why healers are THE priority target to kill first. Because they are so powerful and able to completely and decisively determine the outcome. In essence, 1 decent healer is worth more than 4 decent dps in most cases. And that shouldn't be the case.

I know, I have a 53 scoundrel, and it's kinda sad that I can survive 3 dps on me even though all 3 are unloading on me. And what's worse is that, I normally play scrapper on my scoundrel, and is geared for it, and I can STILL heal extremely effectively in dps gear. That's just sad.

grethor i think you are wrong. a healer should be able to heal 1 dps damage at least, and you cant be serious when you say you can heal yourself while having 3 dps on you. you still need tactical advantage for the instant heal and the instant heal alone wont keep you alive against 3, neither 2 good dps. not talking about getting you stunlocked against 3. or are you talking about arenas with a tank? then its not a 3v1, seriously.

i am not playing any healer right now, though i have an 55 operative (lethality). there must be tweaks, surgical probe should cost some energy too (cull for example needs a TA and costs energy) and all is fine.

in ranked with healer, tank 2 dps, you have to be very patient to kill someone. how many games are decided when the gas comes? too many! that happens mostly when 2 good op healers on both sides and of course the other players shouldnt suck too.

for arenas only nerf smash (hitting only 1 or 2) and energy cost to SP for ops.

yeah and nerf the thousands of stuns, make the white resolve bar last longer. its not funny...

It has always been, historically and logically, easier to destroy things than it is to create or heal. Healing shouldn't prevent death entirely, but only extend the amount of time before death would occur.

I find your life-death philosophy highly disturbing.

To destroy things you have to live.... yeah healers make that possible

And yes please nerf healing to the group, so that a healer can even keep one dps up.... the pvers side of the game will love you for that

not always the case, in most cases yes your right but example:

arena game, team A has a opperative healer, Team B has a merc healer, team b healer will be dead long b4 u kill team A healer and quite often if they got really good dps they will kill one or two of u at least b4 u even get the opperative healer down.

same thing applies in some warzone siturations. is killing that healer more priority than seeing 4 orbs being taken from under ya nose in a hypergate?

is killing that healer more important than interupting a bomb planter, or a turret taker etc?

not always just that simple KILL THE HEALER statement.

Going for the healers first isn't always the best way.

Amen Sir. Unless the healer is weak its the worst strategy ever.

I think DPS should look at enemy buffs and switch to one of the unguarded DPS, if tank or who is guarding is clever will switch. Usually he does it when you are around 50% of his health. he will switch guard from healer.

But I would go for the weaker class in this order Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor (to make a simple category).

What you need to do on healer is have some1 bright disturb him and interrupt his big burst heals.

Going for healers is dumbest strategy ever versus a strong healer or a good set up of players...

Amen Sir. Unless the healer is weak its the worst strategy ever.

 

I think DPS should look at enemy buffs and switch to one of the unguarded DPS, if tank or who is guarding is clever will switch. Usually he does it when you are around 50% of his health. he will switch guard from healer.

But I would go for the weaker class in this order Light, Medium, and Heavy Armor (to make a simple category).

What you need to do on healer is have some1 bright disturb him and interrupt his big burst heals.

 

Going for healers is dumbest strategy ever versus a strong healer or a good set up of players...

Furthermore, when facing good teams going for the healer first often means a dps is over-extending, which either results in becoming isolated (then blown up) or forcing their own healer to break lines and expose themselves too otherwise avoidable damage. Either way, its a bad scenario and I've lost countless games to blind blood lust.

If an op/scoun can heal through stupid, then their healing IS over powered.

well no - it should tell the stupid to become smart and not blame scouperatives to be OP.

you can kill every healing class with as much peoples supporting you as he is supported by. if you cant it is a problem on your side not a balance issue(as arenas proof every day).

Perhaps its all in my head.

But I enjoy building up my stacks on a dps (I have been pvping on a gunner commando) and then dropping a quick burst rotation onto a healer. A lot of healers are used to the rotation of being focused and self healing. >_> I like to think that giving them multiple dying targets gets their cooldowns used, their blood pumping frantically and ends up making them easier to kill.

Granted, there are healers that are more experienced and you can tell. They don't fluster as easily.

There is not a definite solution.

PvP is a constant stream of discisions. Target priority changes every second depending on what cooldowns are active what the healer is doing, what his tank is doing, what his dps are doing, what you are doing, etc. Every GCD a player has to take in that information and make a judgement call on how to respond. In some situations you go after the healer, others the dps. Heck I have had ranked situations where we just focus the tank into the ground. (generally with dps geared tanks)

The only rule for target priorities, is to kill targets of opportunity.

Sorry to say this, and I'll likely get flamed for it, but......

 

Healing is WAY over powered right now; for some classes, less so for others. Commandos/mercs are, IMHO are where they should be, sorc/sages are a little too capable of healing while ops/scoundrels are far far ahead of where they should be.

 

Let me explain.

Healing should NEVER be nearly as potent as dps. It has always been, historically and logically, easier to destroy things than it is to create or heal. Healing shouldn't prevent death entirely, but only extend the amount of time before death would occur. But right now, this isn't the case. As it is, an op can keep and entire team alive with little to no resource management needed, and when combined with their own healing they have some incredible survivability.

 

Some say ops/scouns are not OP....likely because they play the class and don't want them hit with the nerf bat. Some also say that a healer should never be killable by one person. On this I disagree. Again, going back to what I said earlier about it has always been easier to destroy than to create philosophy, a single dps should be ABLE to kill a healer, unguarded of course, not quickly but it should be possible. I'm NOT saying healers should be free kills or anything, just that they shouldn't be able to completely counter damage completely. Again, healing should extend how long you live, not make you immortal. It should be a battle of attrition, not a "oh crap they have 3 ops healers, we're screwed!"

 

Mandos/mercs are where all healers should be, and the other 2 healing classes brought down to their level. And I honestly think it would improve things. The way healing is, specifically ops/scoun heals are right now, when combined with the over abundance of CC, it's just too much. Make people have to work at it a bit rather than being ROFL mode. If an op/scoun can heal through stupid, then their healing IS over powered.

 

Good healers will still excel, but bad ones will quickly be outted for making so many mistakes. Hopefully, learning from their mistakes.

 

And this is why healers are THE priority target to kill first. Because they are so powerful and able to completely and decisively determine the outcome. In essence, 1 decent healer is worth more than 4 decent dps in most cases. And that shouldn't be the case.

 

I know, I have a 53 scoundrel, and it's kinda sad that I can survive 3 dps on me even though all 3 are unloading on me. And what's worse is that, I normally play scrapper on my scoundrel, and is geared for it, and I can STILL heal extremely effectively in dps gear. That's just sad.

Am I dreaming ? After two years, I read for the first time someone who thinks like me ?

grethor i think you are wrong. a healer should be able to heal 1 dps damage at least, and you cant be serious when you say you can heal yourself while having 3 dps on you. you still need tactical advantage for the instant heal and the instant heal alone wont keep you alive against 3, neither 2 good dps. not talking about getting you stunlocked against 3. or are you talking about arenas with a tank? then its not a 3v1, seriously.

 

i am not playing any healer right now, though i have an 55 operative (lethality). there must be tweaks, surgical probe should cost some energy too (cull for example needs a TA and costs energy) and all is fine.

 

in ranked with healer, tank 2 dps, you have to be very patient to kill someone. how many games are decided when the gas comes? too many! that happens mostly when 2 good op healers on both sides and of course the other players shouldnt suck too.

 

for arenas only nerf smash (hitting only 1 or 2) and energy cost to SP for ops.

yeah and nerf the thousands of stuns, make the white resolve bar last longer. its not funny...

TA or the scoundrel equivelent is EASY to get. There is a talent that gives you 1 or 2 stacks when you exit stealth, dropping the hot on 3 targets (3 globals) is easy enough too.

Secondly, even with 3 on me, dodge and shield negates most of the damage I would have taken. And then there is the free instant once you get to 30% health, and then the WZ med pack. Boom back to 80% health in 1 global. And then you cleanse and roll away and line of sight them. Not hard to do at all.

Point is and was, op/scoundrel heals are too good right now. And healing should NEVER be able to match with incoming damage as easily as it does right now. As I said before, it is and always has been, in the real world at least, easier to destroy things than it is to create.

Just remember, I'm not saying all healers need to be nerfed, just ops/scoundrels. Merc/mandos and Sorc/sages healing is fine and about where they should be, but ops/scoundrels are too potent considering half their healing abilities are instant, with a quarter of them a instant drop and heal over time. It's very hard to interrupt an instant ya know.

Please do not miss what the OP is trying to say.

The "focusing the healer is BAD" options are really good basic/entry level advice for the chess play style, but on my server (Harbringer) many Imps and plenty of Pubs need to work on the simplest mechanics of checkers first.

I have seen whole matches where the winning team uses the sandbags in Novarre and the door entry in (whats that name *%&^$^) to block our team and get their objectives/orbs and allow their healers to cast freely. Many of our players know how to get good damage and that is all they worry about. I can not count the number of games lost that I saw Juggs and Sins with 0 protection and snipers who never used their dome and our team also had a 35% lead in damage and heals.

I say baby steps first

• get these folks to map their target markers and learn to always identify and mark healer and do everything you can to slow them down.
  

This would be a huge improvement, and hopefully some light bulbs come on as they see how awareness of the real time affects of terrain, teamwork and pressure are greater than their individual damage.

I think in today's world adding the word PRIORITY to "kill the healers" goes out of many folks comfort zone and attention span.

NOW I WILL RANT

I really get tired of seeing my damage drop like a stone when I have to charge past their first line of defense on my ranged dps to find/pressure a healer. I also may have to wait before I hit spawn to get them marked. When returning after my violent stun lock death, I will notice folks leaving the uncaptured node to ninja the enemys home base or moving backwards in unison to 5v1 a leaper with the newly marked healer freecasting and the team taking the objective. Also many forum readers may find many individual issues with my explanation of this suggestion and/or my playstyle. If your self esteem and real world accomplishments are so low that you can only belittle another by nit picking tertiary facts of someones reply instead of trying to identify and address shared concern, I will say that I was glad to help.

Since I play healer often ... you can shut a healer down with one or 2 players of any kind because I'll end up chain healing myself ... if I'm busy healing myself ... I'm not doing ANY healing for my team

And it really doesn't matter which healer I play and I do play all 3 types