5% (maybe even 10%, though that seems a bit high) of your sensor dampening is applied as a reduction in hostile mine acquisition radius.

With the dampening nerf the max you can get is 6km, which would reduce acquisition radius by 300m.

This would also buff longer-range mines like seekers relative to seismics. It would buff Type 1 scouts relative to Type 2, and support their role as minesweepers.

It would, after a fashion, make boy bombers "worse" as an offensive counter to other boy bombers, in that attacking boy bombers would have a longer TTK on defending boy bombers.

If you did something like this, I'd put it on Communications Sensors. Make them have a "mine jamming" component.

Dampening Sensors are already plenty useful as a counter to most people taking +Sensor Range crew that puts them above the 15km base.

If you did something like this, I'd put it on Communications Sensors. Make them have a "mine jamming" component.

 

Dampening Sensors are already plenty useful as a counter to most people taking +Sensor Range crew that puts them above the 15km base.

1. That makes no sense, though.
   
2. I wouldn't call that "plenty useful". It's of pretty marginal value, especially relative to other minor components.
   
3. Communication sensors are also already reasonably useful relative to the other sensors.
   

1. That makes no sense, though.
   
2. I wouldn't call that "plenty useful". It's of pretty marginal value, especially relative to other minor components.
   
3. Communication sensors are also already reasonably useful relative to the other sensors.
   

Unless you are hunting someone specific, extending your Sensor or Communication Range doesn't offer much tactical benefit, in either Domination or TDM.

In TDM, you can't fight someone until they are well-within sensor range anyway, so what good does seeing them sooner do?

In Domination, you know that all targets will either be on a satellite or, in the case of Gunships, within 15km of a satellite. And the scoreboard (turret count, flashing node) and team chat give you a pretty good idea of what is happening at all areas of the map. And even if you need more information, the base Communication range of all ships is often enough to establish a chain of sensor data between two adjacent satellite nodes.

Sure, excessive Communication range may let me see someone at C while I'm sitting at A, but does that offer significant tactical advantage?

I agree that Sensor Dampening doesn't offer much advantage in Domination either. But in TDM, Sensor Dampening is hugely important and offers a very significant tactical benefit, at least to me.

As an ace on my server, I am constantly being hunted and targeted so as to suppress me. Sensor Dampening reduces the range at which the hunters can spot me. This lets me skirt the edges of a TDM match and pick out targets. I then rush in and get as many kills as I can before I am targeted. Once I am targeted, I flee. Sensor Dampening lets me get off the sensors of my pursuers (ending their pursuit) more quickly. Because of my Dampening, I can know, with certainty, that the vast majority of pursuers will lose me before I cross the 20km mark.

And because my Scout has strong inherent sensor range, I can see the exact moment when my pursuer's target turns from "Shayd" to "No target". I can then take a brief moment to recharge engine and shield, and repeat. Sensor Dampening allows true hit and fade.

Granted, that's only in TDM, and it only works if you can be faster than your pursuers (at least for a short time). And it could be countered by a Scout who takes Ranged Sensors, but they're not going to get all that much use out of them besides hunting hit-and-faders like myself. And if they can't keep up, it doesn't do them much good anyway--it just makes me take longer to get off their scanners.

I use communication sensors on all my ships that have sensors that are not gunships. I like them for TDM because I'm always playing with a team in voice chat and when someone who calls for peels has comm sensors, It means I can always tab through targets and find whoever they need peeled. In Domination if you are at A and its quiet and you can see everyone at C cause your team all has comm sensors, this means you can open the map up and call out everything happening to your team, so they know exactly where everyone is without needing to look around.

While I think having sensors shorten the radius of mines is a neat idea, Id rather see a buff to EMP weapons that are already supposed to be the counter to said mines. All the ships that this buff to sensors would help have EMP weapons, so it would just be helping them in another way.

Unless you are hunting someone specific, extending your Sensor or Communication Range doesn't offer much tactical benefit, in either Domination or TDM.

Having all the friendly ships able to see what you see, and vice-versa is tactically valuable. Though I would agree that it is more so in Domination than in TDM. Even so, there are inherent advantages to knowing where the enemy snipers are sitting in TDM as well, when approaching a battle.

Before the changes to sensor range and dampening, the only real choice was communication range, imho. Now there are strategies involved.

I like the motivation, but it gives a combat application to just ONE of the sensor types. I think there would need to be some advantage to communications sensors and range sensors beyond just visualization if there is one for dampening.

It's a mild nerf to boy bombers for sure, but I don't think it would shift the meta appreciably- mostly because manual detonation of the mines is so common, and the trigger isn't the all of it.

Still, I definitely dig the idea of the sensors having a very mild combat application. I'd just want there to be equally mild ones for the other two being good.

Still, I definitely dig the idea of the sensors having a very mild combat application. I'd just want there to be equally mild ones for the other two being good.

How about something like this :

Range Sensor : -2/3/4/5% tracking penalty reduction (multiplicative, not like weapon upgrades -> HLC -1.90%/°)

Communication Sensor : -4/6/8/10% lock time.

The reason is that I believe the ship that need the most Range sensor are Gunships in order to prepare shots before the 15000m range, and they have the harshest tracking penalties.

And as for Communication, it's a bit a default for Strikes and Bombers as they don't need extra detection, and don't need to conceal themselves particularly as they're not really in the front line and are rather though. And since they are the kind to only have one missile (when Bombers don't use mines), and amongst the long-locking ones...

And so, just like Dampening is rather befitting Scouts in order to not get detected too easily and the second effect would help against their biggest issue, namely the mines, I thought it would be logical that the second effect for Range and Communication Sensors would be directly aimed to the ones who are the most likely using these components.

But that's just a random thought which popped in my head while waiting for a bus...

I'm not actually convinced that giving combat effect to Sensors is the way to go.

How about something like this :

 

Range Sensor : -2/3/4/5% tracking penalty reduction (multiplicative, not like weapon upgrades -> HLC -1.90%/°)

Communication Sensor : -4/6/8/10% lock time.

Alternate suggestion:

Range: tempted to just leave this as it is

Communication: increases buff radius (i.e. increases the radius of stuff like Repair Probes)

Alternate suggestion:

 

Range: tempted to just leave this as it is

Communication: increases buff radius (i.e. increases the radius of stuff like Repair Probes)

IMO, if it's going to only help/hinders some specific components, and if not all Sensors would get a secondary effect, I think it would probably be better to just tweak the said components rather than trying to change the sensors.

I don't really like this idea. I think if you choose to buff your sensors, it should be because you want to buff your sensors, not because you want a side benefit. The reason people don't do that currently is because the default sensor ranges on all ships are enormous, so that problem should be addressed if sensors are to be buffed. Introducing this change would be one more thing for new players to wrap their heads around, too.

Dogfighters have problems with mines, sure, but that's more due to the strength of the mines than the weaknesses of the dogfighters (and the T1 and T2 strikes can't get sensor components, and thus can't get enough dampening to really take advantage of that specific suggestion).

While I do think the T3 strike, both gunships, and the T1 and T3 scouts could use some love, the weaknesses I think should be shored up (mobility for the support fighters and gunships, team support/synergy for the support fighters, and burst capability outside TT builds for the scouts) would be unaffected by these changes and awkward to work into sensors. Also, side effects for detection and communication sensor ranges would have side effects for T2 scouts, who really don't need the buff. This would also effectively be a slight nerf to T1 and T2 strikes, since their default sensor ranges are slightly subpar, and I don't think that's necessary either.

I don't really like this idea. I think if you choose to buff your sensors, it should be because you want to buff your sensors, not because you want a side benefit.

???

You don't have a choice whether or not to buff your sensors. A given ship either has a sensor component or it doesn't - it can't trade that component out.

Also, side effects for detection and communication sensor ranges would have side effects for T2 scouts, who really don't need the buff. This would also effectively be a slight nerf to T1 and T2 strikes, since their default sensor ranges are slightly subpar, and I don't think that's necessary either.

To avoid buffing T2 scouts you can just tie the buff to the sensor component, and not give any buff for the Tactical slot.

You don't have a choice whether or not to buff your sensors. A given ship either has a sensor component or it doesn't - it can't trade that component out.

I'm not saying you should take something other than a sensor component. I'm saying that if you choose to take range sensors, it should be because you... want to increase your sensor range. Same for communication and dampening sensors. I think it'd be really unintuitive for sensor upgrades to do things other than upgrading sensors.

I don't hate this idea, but part of me does wonder if mines should have a max ammo component (as far as I can tell, they don't have a capacity). Not sure why you can store tons and tons of these when strikes and such get a limited amount of missiles: the bigger the missile, the fewer you get, too.

I'd almost argue for a different type of buff to sensors, but it's hard to think of one outside of this idea that wouldn't goof it up a little. I was thinking a little accuracy and defense or something, but... yeah, could be too much.

On further consideration, I don't like it.

Only because it makes your sensor decision for you. If you have niche things like "you can be healed from further", then that would be one thing. But even the obvious one for communications- extra range to communicate with a satellite- seems like it would be hard to balance. Pity, it's a fun idea.

As to "only the first ones explode manually" - that isn't true if your opponents avoid the trigger range instead of just circling into the trigger.

I'm not saying you should take something other than a sensor component. I'm saying that if you choose to take range sensors, it should be because you... want to increase your sensor range. Same for communication and dampening sensors. I think it'd be really unintuitive for sensor upgrades to do things other than upgrading sensors.

Well the problem here is that sensor range, dampening, and communication are just not very strong and even if each component gave infinite amounts of their respective stat it would still be a very weak slot.

I agree it's a weak slot. I mean, I'm still not sure if sensor dampening works below 15km after the patch- we figured that might be the case with the sensor dampening nerf, but actually testing that is hard. Certainly it's at least a choice, though- communications is generally the best one, with range offering a real advantage to when enemies pop on the map, and dampening actually letting you fade out a bit earlier. I think that everyone with a sensor component would happily trade it for ANY of the other five slot options though.

That can be ok: it's fine to have a weaker component. I don't think that the game would be improved if the type 1 gunship had a capacitor instead of a sensor, for instance (and he's one of the ones that actually cares about sensors too). Both of the type 3 new ships are meant to have sensors as part of their power tradeoff as well.

Well the problem here is that sensor range, dampening, and communication are just not very strong and even if each component gave infinite amounts of their respective stat it would still be a very weak slot.

I agree.

I think if you choose to buff your sensors, it should be because you want to buff your sensors... The reason people don't do that currently is because the default sensor ranges on all ships are enormous, so that problem should be addressed if sensors are to be buffed.

That can be ok: it's fine to have a weaker component. I don't think that the game would be improved if the type 1 gunship had a capacitor instead of a sensor, for instance (and he's one of the ones that actually cares about sensors too). Both of the type 3 new ships are meant to have sensors as part of their power tradeoff as well.

What I dislike is that the sensor component is nearly useless for everyone. Even with the magazine component, you can find some use in extra regen/pool for holding/tapping railguns, and when you use quads and heavies (or maybe that's just me). You can also make an argument for extra munitions with certain secondaries.

Sensors, though? Pretty much doesn't matter on any ship. Sure, on some of them you want to make sure you're not picking dampening sensors, but beyond that, they're just... uninteresting.

And all but three ships are cursed with this component.

what might be a better way to deal with mines is to up the effect range of the EMP pulse.

EMP radius is 3000k to 3500k depending on upgrade.

seeker mines are 4000k to 4500k. why not just slightly buff the pulse radius to match?

nothing else changes, just the pulse radius.

no need to add secondary effects to sensors and no need to try to balance the 3 sensor types across different ship types and it allows T1 scouts to do what they're designed to do.

just my 2 cents.

But introducing secondary effects adds bloat and complexity without solving the inherent problem.

The inherent problem is not solveable and/or shouldn't be "solved".