I had something very similar happen to me on Oricon only it was with the same faction. He didn't try to stealth, he just capped the objective and took off while I was dealing with the mobs. I also called him out on it and he proceed to tell me that "I'm a hypocrite because I probably do the same thing, ect." Afterwards he became the newest addition to my ignore list. As far as cross faction goes, I'd say it's pretty cheap. But in my opinion it's alot worse if they are in the same faction.

I had a 4-man team from the same guild steal *two* objectives in Section X, bioforming area. There are two big mobs that look as though they pull seperatetly, but don't. Each of them guards a clickable objective. They both use a stun and a pushback. So there I was, merrily leeroying with my shadow tank; aggro them both, get stunned, see them go for Nadia. Break stun, taunt them back, get stunned again. Pushback one. Pushback two. Guild team swoops in on their speeders and proceed to take my objectives while I'm getting stunned and thrown around.

 

Asked them what the hell were they thinking. No reply whatsoever. They later tried to steal a third objective but I saw their sentinel leap in on time and clicked it.

 

I didn't have much respect for that guild before this incident but now I simply ignore every player with that guild tag I come across. Arrivederci, idiots.

Rude? Did you not even read my post? It's not rude if the game developers have designed objectives and resources in a manner so opposing factions are required to compete for them.

 

There is a huge difference between what's possible based on the programming and the way things are handeled by the community.

 

Ninjalooting falls under the same category imo.

It is possible to roll need on everything, but it isn't accepted as common thing to do in groups

I'm gonna play the devils advocate here, but he DID stealth by you... that makes it seem to me like he might have been trying to snag the objective himself thinking you would deal with the mob, but since you didn't he got stuck with them.

 

I have a shadow and I use stealth a lot but not to snag the objective but to use one of my attacks, which require me to be in stealth to use it. So that might have been the case here as well.

I don't have a problem with it, doesn't matter pve server or pvp server or which faction you are.

 

First come first serve.

 

To all those that DO have a problem with it, if you get random invites to group by someone in the area, do you accept?

 

Before I 'steal' a node or whatever I'll try to invite the person nearby to a group. If they decline that was their decision. Just because you CAN solo stuff doesn't mean that grouping is a bad idea.

 

My main problem with the various dailies is the extreme lack of grouping. You're there to do dailies, I'm there to do dailies...we're doing the SAME dailies...why not group? Even if it's only long enough for both of us to get credit for the same node.

I often even look around me nowadays, to check whether nobody is near, when I have found a new chest in the wilderness of a planet.

 

First come first serve.

 

You could call it "selfishness is king", too. It would be much more closer to the point.

Edited November 13, 2013 by AlrikFassbauer

There is a huge difference between what's possible based on the programming and the way things are handeled by the community.

 

Ninjalooting falls under the same category imo.

It is possible to roll need on everything, but it isn't accepted as common thing to do in groups

 

Well, the term Ninjalooting has evolved since MMOs first were introduced, but needing on everything isn't something which is completely unacceptable in all groups. Your stance of it being unacceptable is only your belief on the matter. Yes, many others share this (I do as well) but not everyone does. Therefore, unless members of said group are going to specifically state the loot rules and what is acceptable of Need/Greed, then anyone can Need on anything. You can't dictate to every single player on the game what is acceptable and not acceptable, it not stated previously by the developer. You can only dictate it in your group at the time of the group forming. Its why in PUGs you will get people asking, usually one of the first questions, what the loot rules are.

 

As for the objective "stealing", again there is nothing by the Devs which has stated it is "wrong" and they have developed a gaming environment where it is encouraged by competition with an opposing faction. You and others may wish to take a higher, moral perspective and say for the good of the Community its a bad thing; however, I find that sort of rhetoric just as selfish as those you look down upon for "stealing" objectives.

My main problem with the various dailies is the extreme lack of grouping. You're there to do dailies, I'm there to do dailies...we're doing the SAME dailies...why not group? Even if it's only long enough for both of us to get credit for the same node.

Loot and credit gets divided and since it's laughably easy to solo those dailies, there's no point in having your credit income cut in half. I'm talking about drops, obviously. Not quest rewards.

Loot and credit gets divided and since it's laughably easy to solo those dailies, there's no point in having your credit income cut in half. I'm talking about drops, obviously. Not quest rewards.

 

Well, at least you responded to this part of what I wrote, and I appreciate that.

However, if THAT is really the reason, the I am equally irritated about this as people seem to be about node/objective 'stealing.'

 

When I'm on a new lvl 50 trying to do the heroics in Black Hole or Section X, I NEED a group. I can't complete the weekly until that happens. And while your explanation may not have been directed toward the heroics of the daily area, it's taken me as long as 30 minutes to get a group together. Last time it might have taken longer but a lvl 55 'stealther' was going through and invited me along, cloaking my toon along with his.

 

As for credits....really? So GREED? Can't it be said that GREED is the same reason behind 'node stealing?'

 

Nodes respawn. And it doesn't take very long either.

 

If the reason you listed is what some players use to justify not grouping...

 

That's just sad IMO.

No matter how short the respawn timer on nodes, it's extremely rude to click a node someone else cleared of its guards. Ninjas in the Black Hole area will try to defend their stealing with "lol you were fighting mobs, I figured you can't even click the box yet" but everyone knows that's a poor excuse.

 

When I need to destroy those four boxes after killing 15 Torvix and come across someone fighting two Torvix near the box, I'll engage those mobs to speed up the kill. Then I'll proceed to jump around the box indicating that I need and have to click it. If the player whom I've just helped runs away in search of other Torvix to slay - the box is mine and click it. If they click the box themselves, cool. If they invite me to group and click box once I've accepted, even better.

 

This might be a lot of text to read and process but what I'm describing here is essentialy nothing more but a polite, selfless behaviour. And if I - with my forum reputation - can do it, everyone can.

 

As for running dailies alone - I think most people run them because of the credits. Very few actually enjoy grinding same old missions across several characters. I'm not greedy or selfish but I run those dailies primarily for the credits. When I do run them, I want to run them as fast as possible and, in more cases than not, this means I have to run them solo. Running solo eliminates the unplanned doorbells, phone calls, cats in the cradle, dogs needing to take a dump, crazy girlfriends and a myriad of other RL distractions people are subjected to. Furthermore, running solo allows me to skip a lot of fights thus expediting my quest. My main is a shadow tank and there are virtually no mobs I can't skip. Teaming up with a muggle non-stealther would mean a lot of unneccessary fights which will impede my fast clears.

 

Besides, there's a certain rythm to my daily runs and certain paths I've grown accustomed to whose breaking means more map checking, taking the longer route and generally slowing my daily run progress.

 

I imagine all of this is true for the majority of players doing their daily runs and the main reason people don't team up outside the Heroic 4 in BH (which a stealher soloes) and Section X.

Edited November 14, 2013 by slafko

My "inner cynic" says to this :

 

"Don't roll need if you don't have to" = "need is bad".

"Roll greed any time you like to" = "greed is good".

Sounds like Gordon Gekko to me.

So I ask the community, is it acceptable to "steal" objectives from enemy faction players on a PvE server?

 

I do not think it is fair to do that, eventhough it is another faction it still is another player spending time to get their quest done.

 

If there was a general objective like Republic VS Empire goal it would ofcourse be fair but not a single one for a quest.

All I can say is different people take different things different ways.

 

One time in game I was waiting on someone to kill a mob (Gold/Elite) patrol mob near a node I needed. I waited a couple extra seconds after they player rez'd and ran off to a corner while I clicked the node. The player started cursing me out for not helping him take down the mob. I had sent him a group request but he was in group finder so he likely never knew that.

 

Previously, in a very similar situation, I saw someone having what looked like a tough time with some mobs he was killing. I jumped in to help out. When the mobs were all killed he started cursing at me for helping out.

 

You can't win.

 

Play for yourself.

 

Click the nodes first and fast before you start fighting the mobs.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Darevsool

Same faction and I do think it's rude and would never do it. I'm a yielder though, so I don't mind. However it's not against the rules and is completely avoidable as people have pointed out already. Send in companion (preferably a tank), get objective and profit.

 

Perhaps it's just me being cynical from playing on pvp servers but opposite faction ninja'ing? Completely acceptable. Not only is is acceptable, after you get the objective you turn and fight the other player while he's down on health from fighting the mob or you down him first then take the objective afterwards. Happens to me often enough as well and it's all good.

 

Edited November 14, 2013 by Ridickilis

I would never intentionally steal an objective. If I see someone fighting mobs by an objective I go elsewhere.

 

However, nobody really ever returns the favor. If I see someone coming towards me while I'm fighting mobs, and can't hit the objective due to the mob's interrupts, they are pretty much guaranteed to take the objective and drive off.

 

So, when doing dailies or quests, I have the mindset to rush to an objective. If someone else is rushing towards it from another direction, too, does it count as stealing to try to get there first? I don't think so.

 

Global cooldowns are one of the most destructive things in an MMO community. What does it hurt if both players can get a quest item at the same time? Positively nothing. Game mechanics create hostility where there should be none.

 

The quest items in the tower on Oricon are a prime example of this. Every time I do my Oricon dailies it is a mad dash for the quest items. It doesn't matter how nicely you play, other people are going to take advantage of your niceness and leave you fighting a hoard of elite mobs while they take all the objectives and run off. Even when I camp a node and wait for it to respawn, someone else will usually eventually camp it by me and then it's a war to see who can spamclick and hit it first when it reappears.

 

It's every man for himself if you want to finish them in a timely manner. But, I do agree the traditional form of stealing i.e. grabbing the item while someone is fighting by it is not acceptable. Too bad everyone does it anyway.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Beltane

EDIT: nvm, late to the party Edited November 14, 2013 by Loc_n_lol

PVE server: Same faction, leave em be, help them if needed.

Opposite faction, take anything and everything around em, as far as I am concerned they are the enemy, pvp/pve be damned. They are just smart AI that needs to be beat.

Edited November 14, 2013 by Creslan

There is no official stance on what exactly "stealing" objectives constitutes in terms of disciplinary action by the devs.

 

Therefore, I cannot get banned for it.

 

Therefore, I will do it.

 

To be fair the game already has a claim method, and that's first to click. Just because somebody stands in an area doesn't mean they magically get to claim everything of possible value around them like some explorer planting a flag. "All of this is MINE!"

It is just rude. The only people who defend it are those who do it.

 

I will admit to accidental Ninjaing before because I did not see the person. When they called me out I helped them with there next couple objectives and apologized for it.

It is just rude. The only people who defend it are those who do it.

 

I will admit to accidental Ninjaing before because I did not see the person. When they called me out I helped them with there next couple objectives and apologized for it.

 

QFT

 

 

Has anyone else seen people steal mobs from them? I've been noticing this recently and mostly in CZ-198 and Section X. People will not only ninja your objective, they will ninja your mobs too. Had this happen several times already. Each time when I was on my sentinel. Since they're more single target focused, several mobs in the group will remain undamaged. That's what ninjas exploit and steal those mobs by attacking them. Even though you've engaged the group first, the kills go to the player who actually drew first blood on a mob. So, if my meager aoe attacks are on cooldown or there are ranged dps in the group that I can't reach until I've dealt with mdps - chances are some ninja will engage the mobs and claim kills thus crippling my "kill x mobs" mission progress.

 

It's fun when I run into such ninjas with my shadow; they just help me kill things faster. But sentinel is another story. Those foew aoe attacks mean I have to run around switching and hitting targets to make sure I have flagged each one individually before I can proceed to unleash dps on a single target.

 

Ninjas be annoying.

step 1: get the objective

step 2: kill the mobs

 

Problem solved forever.

 

This discussion looks remarkably similar to the one about Martinique Desler. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=693065

 

So, is there really a moral obligation to let someone attacking the mobs around an objective let them have it? I sincerely used to think so. I loathed people who ran up on me and stole the objective right from under me. How dare they do that! Can't they see I am trying to get to that? Why are they such an (insert random insult here)!

 

But the thread about Martinique Desler has made me reconsider that standpoint. The game has been created in such a way that anyone can click an objective at anytime.... by DESIGN. If the game is designed this way, then is it wrong to play it by the "first man to click wins" philosophy?

 

Someone in the other thread corrected me by stating that "there is no such thing as kill stealing" in this game. I would now have to agree to that. The only way to ensure that you get the objective that you are after is to do as Dreselus stated. And if you keep getting interrupted and cannot obtain that objective... then L2P and/or just move on to the next one.

 

Now that I have realized the design of the game, I play it how it has been designed. I was only making myself upset when someone ran in and took my objective because I wasn't smart enough to grab it first.

Good thing you're not a politician in RL then.

The game has been created in such a way that anyone can click an objective at anytime.... by DESIGN. If the game is designed this way, then is it wrong to play it by the "first man to click wins" philosophy?

 

Just compare it to the rl society.

By nature we do only care about our close relatives and friends, but as a group of people we have different rules which we hold, so we can live together.

 

In a social game like a mmo, there are two sets of rules:

-The rules set by the game/developers

-The rules the community makes so playing together gets easier and less frustrating.

 

While the 2. set of rules doesn't have any direct consequences from the developers, it can lead to people being hated/ignored by players.

(examples for the community created rules are ninjalooting or queuing as the wrong role in groupfinder)

I was doing some Oricon dailies on my smuggler. I was about to engage a group of mobs when I saw a Jedi Shadow go by me under stealth. I mistook him for a Sith Assassin and I took advantage of him engaging the mobs - I went after the objective.

 

After the fact, the player called me out on it, calling me a profane name I will not repeat here. When I realized my mistake, I apologized and explained my mistake. He responded stating, "what the _____ does that matter? This is a PvE server."

 

My response was, that the empire is the enemy and it's been done to me by imps a lot.

 

Suffice it to say that after a short period of back and forth, I stated, "agree to disagree." and the private conversation ended.

 

So I ask the community, is it acceptable to "steal" objectives from enemy faction players on a PvE server?

I had a good 'ole giggle.

I bet your apologising to that scum made him even madder.

Stealing also happens between same faction players as well.

 

I also play Neverwinter and the objectives for quests are ALWAYS active, regardless of whether someone clicked it just before you. It only goes inactive for you once you clicked it. Only downside is it will no longer respawn (for you, stops camping at one node I guess) ), but there is usually plenty of nodes around to finish the quest. So stealing objectives is pretty much non-existent.

 

Perhaps the devs could look into emulating something similar in TOR to solve the problem.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Tenboro