The real reason why people think healer are OP right now is because a majority of healers now are operatve/scound or sage/sorc. Now, in order for healing to be returned to a manageable state, operative/scound and sage/sorc needs to be on par with a minimally buffed Mando/Merc healer. This will fix the current healer friendly state in pvp, and things will be able to die in ranked once more.

 

(This is coming from someone who plays Commando medic)

Edited July 18, 2013 by General_Aldo

People think they're OP because they think they should be able to be a solo healer killing hero.

You shouldn't be able to solo kill. But 1 good DPS should be able to stalemate 1 good healer. Right now Operative healers can spend 1/3 ofthe time on self heals and 2/3 on team heals whole being focused.

 

Just nerf the currently buffed self heals so they are the same as healing a teammate and it should be enough.

its too easy

People think they're OP because they think they should be able to be a solo healer killing hero.

 

why kill the op when you can squeeze a little juice for free?

 

...yeah. gotta work on that one....

The real problem is 2 of the 3 classes that are built to destroy healers are perceived as nerfed so very few play them. I melt Operative healers with my mara & my vanguard... and those are the 2 classes, with assassins as the 3rd, that really put pressure on me when I'm healing on my operative.

People think they're OP because they think they should be able to be a solo healer killing hero.

 

The only healer broken is Operative/Scoundrel. They need to be brought to Commando/Mercenary level

The only healer broken is Operative/Scoundrel. They need to be brought to Commando/Mercenary level

 

Scoundrel/Ops are fine. Not any more difficult to counter than any other healer.

 

...

 

What's really difficult, is not the healers, but breaking through the enemy team effort to guard their healer. You can't do that alone, nor only with just a few DPS classes. You need the whole team to break it, because the whole enemy team is protecting.

Scoundrel/Ops are fine. Not any more difficult to counter than any other healer.

 

...

 

What's really difficult, is not the healers, but breaking through the enemy team effort to guard their healer. You can't do that alone, nor only with just a few DPS classes. You need the whole team to break it, because the whole enemy team is protecting.

 

Do you even PvP? The whole team is protecting? No, of course they are not. Some of the team is on defense and some is on offense trying to, you know, kill the other team, disrupt their healers, and maybe even capture objectives.

You know how you fix operative healers? You make them use their damn energy. I almost always have 3 stacks of upper hand when I roll healer and I can practically throw out hots and emergency medpack all day long and never run out of energy (one is free the other costs practically nothing.) 90% of the time I don't even bother to look at my energy bar when I spec healing because I simply do not have to. Make the class actually have to pay attention to energy management and force them to actually use it and they become a more reasonable healing spec and not the EZ mode that they currently are.

Scoundrel/Ops are fine. Not any more difficult to counter than any other healer.

 

...

 

What's really difficult, is not the healers, but breaking through the enemy team effort to guard their healer. You can't do that alone, nor only with just a few DPS classes. You need the whole team to break it, because the whole enemy team is protecting.

 

You obviously play an operative/scoundrel healer and don't want to get nerfed so you actually have to use skill when playing

I think healers aren't that OP at healing/not being able to kill by themselves. The problem comes from guard making it impossible to burst them.

Zoidberg says, "Your PVP is bad, and you should feel bad."

People think they're OP because they think they should be able to be a solo healer killing hero.

 

Which works in the low levels very well, regarding the Sage.

My Sage gets killed in low-level PvP very often.

The real reason why people think healer are OP right now is because a majority of healers now are operatve/scound or sage/sorc. Now, in order for healing to be returned to a manageable state, operative/scound and sage/sorc needs to be on par with a minimally buffed Mando/Merc healer. This will fix the current healer friendly state in pvp, and things will be able to die in ranked once more.

 

In other words:

You play mando/merc healer and you want a buff for your class. In return you offer a nerf to the healing classes that you don't play.

 

Great post.

 

Hey! I play DPS sorc. Why not buff DPS sorc and nerf marauders in return? Overall DPS would remain the same!

Edited July 19, 2013 by Cretinus

Do you even PvP? The whole team is protecting? No, of course they are not. Some of the team is on defense and some is on offense trying to, you know, kill the other team, disrupt their healers, and maybe even capture objectives.

 

At any given time a healer situated in a good performing team is protected by:

 

(1) guard

(2) taunt (which may originate from the guarder, or sub-tanks nearby, even some DPS)

(3) cross healers

(4) peelers

(5) support classes/others nearby

 

The numbers range between 3 to 7 (the whole team!) players that try to keep the healer alive. Ever see how good tanks and DPS constantly switch targets and move around the battlefield to cover their healer in trouble? Ever see how a friendly sage/sorc nearby knocks back someone off from the healer and CCs it to buy time? Even DPS spec sorc/sages spamming heals to keep someone up?

 

Seems you have no idea how the actual dynamics of team tactics revolve, and change around the healer. I can imagine why people like you just have to contend that healers are OP. Nice nifty way to hide one's own suckage, ain't it?

 

L2P dude.

You obviously play an operative/scoundrel healer and don't want to get nerfed so you actually have to use skill when playing

 

I have a SCRAPPER scoundrel that hunts light armored sorc healers or medium armored Ops healers for a living, and regularly sends them to the respawn if in case they aren't protected by their teammates. If I fail in killing them, I at least make it sure that they hurt so much while being attacked, that all they can do is run all around the combat zone spamming heals at themselves, and even draws in other healers to cross-heal them, pulling two healers off the immediate fight and help my team bring the rest of the not-healed enemies down.

 

The only times I fail in bringing down, or seriously neutering healers, and makes me feel that they are Op, is when they are guarded by a tank, someone taunts me so I don't even get 1/3rd of my normal damage in, as well as some DPS marauder or sniper with a sharp awareness notices me and starts hurting me to peel me off.

 

In that case I have no way to bring the enemy healer down, because my own F-ing teammates who were supposed to take on the enemy tank and draw in the attention of enemy peelers, have failed in doing their job, as well as our own healer who was supposed to keep me alive long enough to bring enemy healers down, failed in their job of keeping me alive -- which, again, also denotes a failure from the rest of the team to keep our healer alive.

 

 

 

So, no, I don't have a healer scoundrel I fear of getting nerfed.

 

What I fear is that ham-fisted terribads like you try to make it too easy to bring down healers, depriving me of all challenge, and bringing down the entire level gameplay for PvPers as a whole, allowing terribads reap the fruits of something they did not sow, or deserve, since obviously they never really studied or practiced something in earnest until they perfected it, succeeded it in actual combat, and feel the great satisfaction of achieving a difficult feat.

 

TL;DR

 

The reason I think the healers are fine, is because those who say they are OP is trying to dumb things down to their own suckage level -- but PvP is all about competency, practice, and determination as well as motivation to become better. When you meet something you can't bring down, you practice and hone your skills until you can. If you don't have that kind of grit, then you haven't got what it takes to really PvP.

 

And of course, those who give up, come to these boards, and take on the path of the losers. Whining as whiner could. *snicker*

Dont worry OP healers will get nerfed when 4vs4 arenas are coming, because no one will ever die with a Op healer+ tank in there team.

I have a SCRAPPER scoundrel that hunts light armored sorc healers or medium armored Ops healers for a living, and regularly sends them to the respawn if in case they aren't protected by their teammates. If I fail in killing them, I at least make it sure that they hurt so much while being attacked, that all they can do is run all around the combat zone spamming heals at themselves, and even draws in other healers to cross-heal them, pulling two healers off the immediate fight and help my team bring the rest of the not-healed enemies down.

 

The only times I fail in bringing down, or seriously neutering healers, and makes me feel that they are Op, is when they are guarded by a tank, someone taunts me so I don't even get 1/3rd of my normal damage in, as well as some DPS marauder or sniper with a sharp awareness notices me and starts hurting me to peel me off.

 

In that case I have no way to bring the enemy healer down, because my own F-ing teammates who were supposed to take on the enemy tank and draw in the attention of enemy peelers, have failed in doing their job, as well as our own healer who was supposed to keep me alive long enough to bring enemy healers down, failed in their job of keeping me alive -- which, again, also denotes a failure from the rest of the team to keep our healer alive.

 

So basically, you're good, but the enemy team and your team mates are all bads? That's called a geocentric perception of oneself.

bloody sorc/sage healers, cleansing slows from their selves and running out of my range every 20 seconds... always find sage/sorc healers harder to kill on my sin then operatives (I mean in a heat of battle, not if I find some guy 1vs1)... and if operative tries to roll (remember, slowed), I know he's desperate and dead. on other hand when I run my operative, it's funny how people trying to kill me... blowing all their goodies on first 6 seconds hoping to burst me down (I have cooldowns too,suckers)... using their cc breaker on that 4 sec stun just to get 8 second mezz or a grenade... if I use vanish same second they run far end to attack some one else, 4.5 seconds later I'm full hp and healing again from cover...

 

but what can you expect when people see sage/sorc they get tunnel vision and triy to kill him ignoring that little man (actually, my healer is body type 3) who is on his knee, letting him free cast what ever he wants...

it's even more funny to get merc as my guard partner, cause people tunnel vision mercenary cause they heard they suck and think of free kill..

 

learn to focus fire and atleast swap targets if you see an option to help some one out in killing one person faster.

 

Dont worry OP healers will get nerfed when 4vs4 arenas are coming, because no one will ever die with a Op healer+ tank in there team.

 

actually mercs might be good healers for arenas if you drop 4x stealth idea. merc healer+PT guard (to pull enemy healer to smashers) + 2 jugg smashers - profit.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Atramar

Then you need to make it much more difficult to protect the healers in the first place if you don't want to nerf their survivability. Nerf healing received from other healers, nerf guard or give stealth DPS guard penetration.

 

When my friendly healer is within the line of sight of my sniper, no melee will ever get to put a scratch on him. And I am just a DPS class, give the healer a tank and he has absolutely no problem at healing at his own leisure.

 

Make healers VULNERABLE. Those few moments kweasa is talking about when healers are not being protected by their team, a scoundrel op can easily mitigate with a crapload of escapes and CC he has, including flashbang, debilitate, combat stealth, lolroll and evasion.

 

When he is being guarded and protected he rarely needs any of these tools to survive, so he can usually keep them for dire situations when his team mates are snoozing.

 

It's EASY TO KEEP YOUR HEALER FRIEND ALIVE. E-A-S-Y.

 

And they nerfed one of the mobile DPS that used to be a good threat to healers: PT Pyro. What? Are you expecting us, ranged DPS to put the same kinda of pressure like a Pyrotech did? We don't go arround the corner, we are not good at hunting down our target, the moment when ranged DPS overcommits it DIES. You need mobile melee DPS to actually threaten them.

 

Healer fanboys keep saying how DPS shouldn't be able to kill healers, ok, you got this state already with Snipers, Mercs and Sorcs. LoS then and you are safe. But don't make the life of melee DPS at killing healers difficult. They need to hardcounter them if they don't have protection from their team.

Edited July 19, 2013 by NoTomorrow

Then you need to make it much more difficult to protect the healers in the first place if you don't want to nerf their survivability. Nerf healing received from other healers, nerf guard or give stealth DPS guard penetration.

 

Hm, I'm thinking, reducing guard to 30% and 10 meters instead of 15? Would that work you think?

 

Ofc, that would hurt my protection medals on PT Tank, BUT I woulnd't boost stealth classes more, my assassin is doing good and my friends concealment operative snips (not a dirty joke) people nicely too (when we meet in WZ and other team has 2 defenders, we challenge each other on who will get his target first, for lols) , giving us penetration (that is not a dirty joke either, I don't want another warnings please) will result in another damage nerf.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Atramar

cause when i do 1million dmg done and 2 other dps as well..

 

i expect more than 4 kills

Hm, I'm thinking, reducing guard to 30% and 10 meters instead of 15? Would that work you think?

 

Ofc, that would hurt my protection medals on PT Tank, BUT I woulnd't boost stealth classes more, my assassin is doing good and my friends concealment operative snips (not a dirty joke) people nicely too (when we meet in WZ and other team has 2 defenders, we challenge each other on who will get his target first, for lols) , giving us penetration (that is not a dirty joke either, I don't want another warnings please) will result in another damage nerf.

 

I actually think giving stealthers openers that ignore guard is a great idea. You don't have to change their damage at all. Just make it so like shoot first (in scrapper spec) removes guard for like 8 seconds or something and spike (in deception) have a similar effect. It fits well with their archetype and would give them more reasons to go into the thick of a fight. I also think it would bring them more in line with having a ranked spot outside of being a healer/node guarder. It would change the meta game for the better imo as now there would be a real counter to guard.

I actually think giving stealthers openers that ignore guard is a great idea. You don't have to change their damage at all. Just make it so like shoot first (in scrapper spec) removes guard for like 8 seconds or something and spike (in deception) have a similar effect. It fits well with their archetype and would give them more reasons to go into the thick of a fight. I also think it would bring them more in line with having a ranked spot outside of being a healer/node guarder. It would change the meta game for the better imo as now there would be a real counter to guard.

 

I really doubt that developers will have courage to mess with the guard mechanics, even though this could potentially make the game more fun and more enteraining. There needs to be a specialist at disrupting healer+tank combos in the game. The CC is not enough as it is a two edged sword, you can try to cc them, but you are vulnerable to CC as well, and giving tanks/healers resolve is not something i would do..

 

Besides separating tank from healer is often pointless as jugs can intercede to their healers, sorcs ca pull tanks back to them, sins can force speed to their healers and ops can lol roll.

 

If hidden strike penetrated the guard, then you would be able to find a rare moment of opportunity when to open on an unexpecting healer.

Edited July 19, 2013 by NoTomorrow