Btw, it might annoy you that someone assumes you're a female because of your female toon, it also annoys females (me, at least) that everyone automatically assumes I'm a guy, no matter what kind of toon I play. I understand why they do it, but I don't have to like it.

Well, for what it's worth, I've always figured there are actually three genders on the internet. Male, female, and "other." Unless you're secretly Anne Hathaway playing the game and having an uncontrollable urge to come meet me in person, I've never cared whether the people on the other end of the Internet pee sitting down or standing up. If SWTOR were a dating site, I could see the point, but otherwise, I don't think it should matter, so for me everyone online here is "other."

That was me

That was a great thread. I seriously did want to post on it (and will go post there now), but I forgot to subscribe to it and couldn't find it.

Sometimes though people have no idea what to do. I don't pvp and I will not based on what I have read and seen in these forums. I tried it once and tried to explain to the person I have no idea what I am supposed to do and let's just say from the behavior and the attitude I received I will not set foot in a pvp area again.

That is really, REALLY sad. I guess I got lucky, way back on "The Deadweight" (what a prophetic name that was). I got into a couple PvP games, of course without knowing a thing about what I was doing. Throw the huttball, how the heck do you do that? After the first time I finally completed a pass I remember coming back to Ilum (there were little PvP boxes to collect in Ilum back then) I joked a bit in general chat... "I just completed a pass in Huttball! I'm so happy! (Baby steps)."

I got a lot of positive response, actually, and an invite to a guild (PWNT, good guys). They were completely willing to take on someone who was obviously a newb. So when we had a guy recently in a huttball who just held the ball until he actually blew up with it - yeah, he was getting a LOT of rage in chat. But after the match I whispered him to see if he maybe didn't know how to throw it. Sure enough, he was trying to figure it out. He thought you targeted someone, and then hit the 'throw' button. That's the same thing I tried at first. But now he knows, and doesn't get raged (at least about that ) anymore. Point of story - there are some of us who will try to help out the new person (just like the original poster). If you are on POT5 - feel free to whisper any of my toons if you see them and you want to try again. At least then you'd have one person that doesn't rage at you.

And to the OP, you say you are a bad player? I would totally have voted you MVP from the match you describe. Anyone who tries to organize the team in any sort of constructive fashion almost always gets my vote, since I think that's one of the most useful thing you can do.

Dont. You're gonna be part of the problem instead of the solution. And It's gonna get boring real quick.

OMG. Don't listen to this guy. Premades are only a "problem" for the derp pug teams you're trying to get away from.

Coming from the same server as you do, part of this problem is also that it seems to me that sometimes, some people just don't understand english at all. (I'm trying not to look towards the russian players, most of them are competent and understand english, but I have met way too many who - it seems - don't.) It's hard to explain a strategy if part of the team doesn't understand what you're saying.

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/4065156/pics/original/1746729.jpg

That is really, REALLY sad. I guess I got lucky, way back on "The Deadweight" (what a prophetic name that was). I got into a couple PvP games, of course without knowing a thing about what I was doing. Throw the huttball, how the heck do you do that? After the first time I finally completed a pass I remember coming back to Ilum (there were little PvP boxes to collect in Ilum back then) I joked a bit in general chat... "I just completed a pass in Huttball! I'm so happy! (Baby steps)."

 

I got a lot of positive response, actually, and an invite to a guild (PWNT, good guys). They were completely willing to take on someone who was obviously a newb. So when we had a guy recently in a huttball who just held the ball until he actually blew up with it - yeah, he was getting a LOT of rage in chat. But after the match I whispered him to see if he maybe didn't know how to throw it. Sure enough, he was trying to figure it out. He thought you targeted someone, and then hit the 'throw' button. That's the same thing I tried at first. But now he knows, and doesn't get raged (at least about that ) anymore. Point of story - there are some of us who will try to help out the new person (just like the original poster). If you are on POT5 - feel free to whisper any of my toons if you see them and you want to try again. At least then you'd have one person that doesn't rage at you.

 

And to the OP, you say you are a bad player? I would totally have voted you MVP from the match you describe. Anyone who tries to organize the team in any sort of constructive fashion almost always gets my vote, since I think that's one of the most useful thing you can do.

^^ LOL! ^^

So totally this! I had to go research online how the heck to throw the Huttball, and I remember the first few games (before I found out) that I would try and avoid being anywhere forward of the ball carrier just so he (hopefully) wouldn't be tempted to throw the ball to me. Heck, even a few nights ago, I found myself unable to throw as I had rolled a new toon, very first Huttball match, and had forgotten to bind the key on the new toon. My first few PvP milestones were huge for me. I was absolutely thrilled the first time I threw the Huttball, ecstatic when I actually scored a goal (I actually scored three in that game), and completely beside myself when I got my first "invincible."

I still remember playing Age of Conan and getting very discouraged as a barbarian when I got ganked in open world PvP by a guy five levels below me who completely annihilated me. It was my first PvP experience, but then I had joined AoC specifically for PvP and was hoping I'd have the nerve to try it. Didn't happen. SWTOR is my first "real" PvP experience, and I gotta tell you - I was ganked by a player three levels above me the other day after I'd taken a group of mobs down (so I was about 80% health), and I still defeated him. I was completely pumped for the rest of the day. Saw him a little later on, but I didn't attack him. Should have, I guess, but he saw me and steered clear. That was a big ego boost.

Oh, and fwiw, I'm actually on PoT5, so I'm sure I'll see you around. At some point, I ought to add my characters to my sig, but here they are:

Arlenvoss (55, watchman sent, woefully undergeared)

Rexorshan (54, watchman sent)

Keyira (15, combat sent - this is the one I'm playing most, now)

Then there's the rest (mostly crafting/gathering alts, although arlen is a crafting alt for me as well):

Cheldiarr (35 - concealment operative)

Karnad (21 - annihilation marauder)

Aldenack (19 - gunslinger)

O'rama (11 - inquisitor)

Muleone (11 - gunslinger)

Actually, when I go into PUGs w/ player names and/or guild names I don't recognize, I have it in the back of my mind that there might be some new players and that they might not know certain mechanics and might need to be told (such as that once you capture a node, you can't just abandon it because the other team can go take it from you.) With that in mind, I do try to be helpful. It's healthy for a game to attract a steady influx of players new to the game, keeping populations strong and content rolling, and I'm all for it.

That having been said, about a week ago, I got a Civil War. The team I was on started where "Grass" (west) was

Because Russians can't speak English. And I can't speak russian.

Period.

Only a minority of the stupid things people do in warzones have something to do with this game specifically. Maybe you're new and not aware that people can leap with the ball or that certain classes can CC you long enough to steal your node if you are standing on it. That's about it though and it should only happen once.

The rest is down to the player being stupid as a person and no helpful message in the world will remedy that. For instance, the most common problem, IMO, is how people act like lemmings. They obviously don't know how to:

*Count, because if they did that they'd realize that seven of them are heading for the same "1 inc", leaving whatever node they were currently on completely open.

*Watch the map, if they can't count they might atleast be able to watch the pretty purple dots on the map. But, no.

*See, if everything els fails they should atleast be able to tell that they're traveling in a horde of other players. Again, no.

Hence, the worst thing you can do in a pug game is to call inc for one enemy. Don't guard if you're not certain that you will be able to beat majority of players 1 vs 1 or atleast hold the node through stealth and don't ever call "1 inc" because in 9 out of 10 cases you'll lose or give up the other node, due to the lemming train that will head your way.

The overwhelming majority of players respond negatively when you offer help. Not worth my time.

I guess I'd be curious how you offer your help? I haven't done it enough to have a clue, but it's been good in three matches so far. Gotta say, though, from some of the comments in this thread, I'm somewhat hesitant and wondering if I'm going to just be filling up the iggy list for a long time to come or going back to guarding, calling, and hoping people answer.

Or... just join a pre-made.

I guess I'd be curious how you offer your help? I haven't done it enough to have a clue, but it's been good in three matches so far. Gotta say, though, from some of the comments in this thread, I'm somewhat hesitant and wondering if I'm going to just be filling up the iggy list for a long time to come or going back to guarding, calling, and hoping people answer.

 

Or... just join a pre-made.

Example: hey guys we dont need 3 people guarding the node. response: screw you, you cant tell me how to play.

I am more than willing to provide helpful advice for those that are actually looking for it. But so few people are capable of receiving constructive criticism without having an e-rage induce aneurysm.

Only a minority of the stupid things people do in warzones have something to do with this game specifically. Maybe you're new and not aware that people can leap with the ball or that certain classes can CC you long enough to steal your node if you are standing on it. That's about it though and it should only happen once.

 

The rest is down to the player being stupid as a person and no helpful message in the world will remedy that. For instance, the most common problem, IMO, is how people act like lemmings. They obviously don't know how to:

*Count, because if they did that they'd realize that seven of them are heading for the same "1 inc", leaving whatever node they were currently on completely open.

*Watch the map, if they can't count they might atleast be able to watch the pretty purple dots on the map. But, no.

*See, if everything els fails they should atleast be able to tell that they're traveling in a horde of other players. Again, no.

 

Hence, the worst thing you can do in a pug game is to call inc for one enemy. Don't guard if you're not certain that you will be able to beat majority of players 1 vs 1 or atleast hold the node through stealth and don't ever call "1 inc" because in 9 out of 10 cases you'll lose or give up the other node, due to the lemming train that will head your way.

You may very well be right, and I'm quite certain you likely have a lot more experience than I do, but I've done PvP for a couple months now and that hasn't been my experience. From a purely personal standpoint, I've made a lot of mistakes that could easily have been remedied by an instruction from someone else (not knowing how to throw the Huttball is a great example). I can only really speak from what I've gone through as a new PvP player, thinking that my experience can't be too terribly different from a lot of others.

Guarding nodes - I originally thought this was something "lazy" people did. You don't guard a node if you really want to help your team; instead, you jump in and fight. Being not overly good at fighting people, I figured it would be best to join the biggest group and go with them, so that I'd at least have numbers on my side. I've learned how wrong that is, though, and now routinely guard because I know I can usually do it well and that seems to be a pretty rare thing.

Calling out "1 w" - Maybe that's a mistake on my part and I will say that I am getting better at 1v1, to the point where I can hold my own a lot more often than not, but I've been taken out and my my node capped on more than one occasion because that one incoming wasn't alone and by the time I saw the stealth cap, it was too late to call out incoming. So... until I see something different, I think I will agree to disagree with you on that.

Attacking the healer - Personally, I never had a clue who the healers were for the longest time, and I also didn't know that the DPS classes were supposed to go after them. Yeah, it's an "unwritten rule," but the funny thing about unwritten rules is that the new people never know them until someone tells them (usually in all caps, with a generous side helping of profanity). I'll also say that even after two months, I still get turned around and confused when there's a large group of enemies around. When there's 12-15 people in the mix (my side and theirs), it sometimes takes more time than I have to try and look for an operative, sorcerer, or whatever. What I'm saying is that it's not an immediate recognition thing for noobs, and you're faced with a choice of taking several seconds to try and figure out who's healing (and some noobs may never be able to tell) or attack right from the start.

FIghting on node - Yeah, I get that this should be common sense, but I can also see how people lose track of this. The guy they're fighting is pulling away, but is almost dead, so do they chase him down and kill him or go back to the node? Granted, following the guy may lead to an ambush and/o an easy cap for the opposing team, but again, you're talking about an on-the-fly decision made in the heat of the moment by someone who may very well be overly excited and not fully cognizant of the bigger picture. A rookie mistake, but an understandable one.

All in all, I would agree there are definitely some stupid players, but EVERYONE was ignorant once.

Example: hey guys we dont need 3 people guarding the node. response: screw you, you cant tell me how to play.

 

I am more than willing to provide helpful advice for those that are actually looking for it. But so few people are capable of receiving constructive criticism without having an e-rage induce aneurysm.

Well, I certainly can't argue that, and I've run into a couple of those myself. I will say, though, that I do see an awful lot of people offering "help" of the "FIGHT ON THE NODE YOU IDIOTS!" variety. Not sure just how helpful that is, or how willing people are to listen to that.

The overwhelming majority of players respond negatively when you offer help. Not worth my time.

Based on you attitude on these forums I'm honestly not surprised.

Well, I certainly can't argue that, and I've run into a couple of those myself. I will say, though, that I do see an awful lot of people offering "help" of the "FIGHT ON THE NODE YOU IDIOTS!" variety. Not sure just how helpful that is, or how willing people are to listen to that.

Here's a trick!

Do you know why people scream "FIGHT ON THE NODES!" ? Because the lemmings get pulled away, like mobs.

When you are defending, fight on the nodes.

When you are attacking, fight away from the nodes.

When attacking, fighting away from the nodes pulls the lemmings away and lets a stealth slip in from behind. Maybe not even a stealth, just some guy off their screen cause they all play with super close camera so that they get to see how cool their toons look when they smash

Guarding nodes - I originally thought this was something "lazy" people did.

I think solo guarding nodes is one of the most stressful things in PvP matches. You are like the guy who has to kick the field goal to win the (American) football game. If you screw it up, it's all your fault that the team lost (never mind the entire rest of the match).

Calling out "1 w" - Maybe that's a mistake on my part

I always call out whatever I see. I figure it's up to my team mates to glance at the map and decide if help is needed, and as you say, there may be more you don't see. A couple days ago I announce "1g", and had a response "can you take em"? I saw it was a jugg, so I quite honestly responded "probably not". I have a guardian, but I've found that most Imp juggs are better than me. So 1 guy came to help, and we took em. To me, that's perfect.

Only once have I been told to shut up. I ignored that.

Attacking the healer - Personally, I never had a clue who the healers were for the longest time, and I also didn't know that the DPS classes were supposed to go after them.

And sometimes it just feels futile. You try to attack the healer, and the enemy team is protecting their healer? You immediately get jumped on, focused, Cc'd and killed all in about 5 seconds. Sure, if your entire team was attacking the healer, then they can't do that to all of you (although, some teams I swear figure out how to ). Or, I love when there are two or three healers, and they are all marked, and you have two or three people on your team raging in chat about how no one is attacking "the" healer.

FIghting on node - Yeah, I get that this should be common sense

I think this is one of those mistakes you almost have to make to believe it. I know I've done the "I'll just finish this guy off, even though he ran behind this pillar - there's NO WAY someone could sneak in a cap in the SECOND it's going to take me to... <door turns red>... CRAP how'd they do that!?" And yes, I owned up in chat... "my bad, so sorry guys, go ahead and rage at me, I suck".

That was a great thread. I seriously did want to post on it (and will go post there now), but I forgot to subscribe to it and couldn't find it.

thanks with all the negative stuff posted in the pvp forums I wanted to see something positive for once so I created that thread because I know people have had good days in pvp.

When attacking, fighting away from the nodes pulls the lemmings away and lets a stealth slip in from behind. Maybe not even a stealth...

One of the coolest wins I ever had in AHG was when we needed a double cap. The entire enemy team was at their node defending. We all rushed it, and our ops leader says "try to pull them off, and keep fighting them from the other side from the pylon". I'm thinking, there's no way this is going to work, but OK. Sure enough, with just a few seconds left, he got around behind them and capped it right out from underneath about 5 guys all defending in the middle of a big melee. Best. Win. Ever.

...

Why do people expect people to know how to pvp when some may have never done it and then we are met with this kind of attitude. Why would we want to even try to learn to do something and maybe try to understand why people want to pvp when we are met with this type of attitude...

i agree that people can be very rude in pvp and i'm sorry for your experience, but there is really two sides to this.

pvp starts in the 10-29 bracket, where a lot of people don't know what they are doing, both in terms of their class and the warzones. If you have a general idea how to play the game you'll be on par with most people within a few games, and you can learn naturally while you level up and get more skills.

If you start at 55 however the average player is just way more experienced, there's a lot of people with thousands of games played, and it is generally expected that people know the core mechanics of the warzone and their class. That doesn't mean you shouldn't be allowed to start pvp at 55, but, imo, you have to realize that you're starting in "hard mode", and the easy way would be to get a new toon to 10 and start there.

Reg WZs are equivalent to Story Mode Ops. If there were members of your raid that had no idea what the mechanics were, refused to listen to direction, and continually caused your group to wipe and fail, would you not kick them from the group?

The double standard is outrageous. In PvE you better not screw things up, but in PvP you better let me do whatever the frak I want.

I think solo guarding nodes is one of the most stressful things in PvP matches. You are like the guy who has to kick the field goal to win the (American) football game. If you screw it up, it's all your fault that the team lost (never mind the entire rest of the match).

Yeah, I do have to admit that I'm getting a lot better. Typically, if the guy is fairly close to my range and I have all my CDs available (which happens a lot when you just guard nodes), I'm pretty confident I can either defeat him, take him down low enough that he'll leave and try to pull me away from the node (and fail), or occasionally last long enough for reinforcements to arrive and pound him. Stealth guys give me trouble, though, because regardless of what's going on, my #1 priority is always calling out incoming and that occasionally means I get attacked and am down 10-20% health before I'm back to fighting. And of course, I'm always paranoid about two stealth guys attacking at once. Given how successful that can be against a solo guard, I'm amazed everyone doesn't do that.

I always call out whatever I see. I figure it's up to my team mates to glance at the map and decide if help is needed, and as you say, there may be more you don't see. A couple days ago I announce "1g", and had a response "can you take em"? I saw it was a jugg, so I quite honestly responded "probably not". I have a guardian, but I've found that most Imp juggs are better than me. So 1 guy came to help, and we took em. To me, that's perfect.

Yep - ditto.

I think this is one of those mistakes you almost have to make to believe it. I know I've done the "I'll just finish this guy off, even though he ran behind this pillar - there's NO WAY someone could sneak in a cap in the SECOND it's going to take me to... <door turns red>... CRAP how'd they do that!?" And yes, I owned up in chat... "my bad, so sorry guys, go ahead and rage at me, I suck".

Yeah - I work in IT, and one of the things I like to tell people is that I've seen pigs fly. Way too many situations I've been in where something was absolutely impossible, made no sense whatsoever, yet it happened to be the cause of whatever we were trying to fix. Here too, I figure that just because we're down 100-24, that doesn't mean we can't win, and I always fight to the bitter end regardless because I've actually been in a few matches where a complete blowout for my team became a close win instead (or vice versa). Love those matches.

Reg WZs are equivalent to Story Mode Ops. If there were members of your raid that had no idea what the mechanics were, refused to listen to direction, and continually caused your group to wipe and fail, would you not kick them from the group?

 

The double standard is outrageous. In PvE you better not screw things up, but in PvP you better let me do whatever the frak I want.

You're comparing apples and oranges. PvE raids take a long time to set up, can be paused at any time, take much longer to finish, and finding a replacement when you're 3/4 of the way through is actually doable. WZ PvP, on the other hand, is a quick mashup with a minute and a half to queue, typically 15 minutes or so of gameplay, and nothing pauses if you kick someone. Heck, the entire process of kicking a player, including discussion, decision, and voting sometimes takes longer than some Voidstar matches. Even if you were in a situation where every player on a team decided to kick someone and you somehow were lucky enough to get another player to backfill the spot vacated by the kicked player, you'd be at a significant disadvantage due to the time lost in dealing with that whole mess.

If PvE and PvP each had the same sort of time constraints, I have to imagine there would be very little difference in the so-called "standards."

You're comparing apples and oranges. PvE raids take a long time to set up, can be paused at any time, take much longer to finish, and finding a replacement when you're 3/4 of the way through is actually doable. WZ PvP, on the other hand, is a quick mashup with a minute and a half to queue, typically 15 minutes or so of gameplay, and nothing pauses if you kick someone. Heck, the entire process of kicking a player, including discussion, decision, and voting sometimes takes longer than some Voidstar matches. Even if you were in a situation where every player on a team decided to kick someone and you somehow were lucky enough to get another player to backfill the spot vacated by the kicked player, you'd be at a significant disadvantage due to the time lost in dealing with that whole mess.

 

If PvE and PvP each had the same sort of time constraints, I have to imagine there would be very little difference in the so-called "standards."

I took the meaning of Cash's reply to be about the "approach" as in attitude or perception differences between PvE vs. PvP rather then the literal mechanics of kicking someone. Put another way, it is generally accepted that if someone keeps "screwing up" in PvE in the manner Cash described (didn't minimally research the fight, yet unwilling to take direction, and repeatedly wipes the group (causes loss), it is accepted it's *that guy* that is in the wrong and needs to change his ways. In PvP, by contrast, if the guy messing up the team and causing them to lose is addressed at all, it's the person conveying the information that's the bad guy, if that makes it more clear. I think the point is valid: why is the same behavior that would get someone dis-included from PvE, *expected* to be tolerated in PvP?

I dont think it is accepted to be tolerated. Its just you have less options in pvp to "punish" the self entitled moron. In a pve ops, he gets kicked on titan 6 and gluck trying to find a group taking him to thrasher for his weekly when hes locked to a boss. In pvp, dont like it? kiss my *** and even if you kick me I just requeue and get another instant wz. Theres no detterant in pvp for negative behaviour or bad play the way there is in pve ops and I think thats why there is a difference.

Oh to reply to something else Cash said above, I had a ACW where I went mid cos 2 guys ran to our natrual before me. It seemed tied at mid and we weree pushing them back, but they capped their natrual and ours wasnt capped and i noticed our guys healths dropping. So I went over there and found them fighting a tank shadow and healer smug, who were running rings around them. Took me a bit to get their cds, then split them up and stun the healer so I could kill the shadow. A nice bit of work too if I may so say As I was returning to the mid, I saw the 2 stealthers go past me again on the way to the node so I returned and we fought a replay. These guys harrassed our node all game and the 2 guys I was with weren't able to kill them without help and sometimes died with my help. We still got a lot of stick though from wz chat "omg medal farmers" "we dont need 3 to def" "noobs come help mid ffs!!!11111". The situation isnt always what it seems.

True, you can't type and fight, but it take very little time to "1w" in chat. Four keystrokes that can make a difference between keeping the node and winning the WZ or not, and if you're keeping a close enough lookout on the incoming lanes, you'll have more than enough time for that.

I don't know if this is something you've thought about doing when you're guarding....but if you already have your ops chat open with West/Grass etc... typed in....all you have to do is add a number and hit enter and there's your incoming call with 2 keystrokes instead of 4.

I don't know if this is something you've thought about doing when you're guarding....but if you already have your ops chat open with West/Grass etc... typed in....all you have to do is add a number and hit enter and there's your incoming call with 2 keystrokes instead of 4.

"q432111t west" is a nice change of pace, and few seconds after: "west lost"

instead of promoting tunnel vision on chat, alt+z and ctrl+u is a better advice if you have a higher stealth detection level