Yea don't see no mention in patch notes. I remember that Marauders were supposedly able to use their regen to build fury stacks up before a fight but see no mention of that under Marauders or Sentinels....was it removed or just left out of the documentation? I know its a skill you learn maybe that's why its not listed...

LOL didn't even know you could do this in this game. You want to talk griefing though...Let me tell you a tale from the good ole days in Lineage II. See there was a dragon in L2 that took 200+ people usually 3 to 4 hours to kill. Now in L2 you could heal anything and any one...including mobs or bosses, it was after all an open PvP game. The tale includes two super alliances on a particular server. One day word got out to one of the alliances that their enemy was planning to kill the dragon. So they managed to sneak a bishop into the raid going into the dragons lair. Now bishops had a 90% heal...would heal 90% of the total health of their target. So this bishop took his time and helped out for about an hour and the raid had the dragon down to around 55%. Suddenly everyone attacking sees the dragons health go from 55% to 90%. Then they realized it was our bishop friend and promptly killed him. So our heroic bishop logged out. Waited about 2 and half hours or so and logged back in. Dragon was now around 30% health. He managed to get someone to rez him (how short some peoples memories were). As soon as he was rezed he targeted the dragon and boom dragon was now back to 90% health. Of course they killed him again but by that time he had managed to cause the enemy alliance almost 4 hours of their time and so they called off the raid. Which worked out for our bishops alliance because they went in a few hours later and got the kill for the week Now that could be considered griefing but in L2...it was par for the course Muhahahaha

Oh I am very cognizant of my agro. Target of target is your friend. I often use camo to dump and stay below a tank but I also am ready in the case I do pull to camo once I see the change in target of target. Now I have let a tank go in first and take a couple swings. Then I charge, assault, battering assault to max out rage and holy cow I pulled agro even before I did any real burst And that was after letting the tank go in first wait a 3 count before leaping in. Maybe a lazy tank no clue but with a leap and assault/battering assault I SHOULD NOT PULL Agro...yet I do sometimes. So for me I always expect to pull so have a finger hovering over my camo just in case or go get a drink of water and hope by the time I come back I can finally join the fight and dps However, since we started doing the "Micky Mouse" method...our tanks have NEVER lost agro to ANY dps. Maybe its our guild tanks and I might agree with you if I hadn't ran ops with 5 or 6 other guilds on the server and had similar issues...unless all tanks suck in general which seems to be your assertion if a tank looses agro to a dps.

Was trying to dumb it down for people to understand...apparently I didn't go far enough Table, chart, meter whatever you want to call it. Each point of dmg equals a point of threat. The whole idea is against well geared dps (talking 63 gear level) a tank generally can not generate enough threat by themselves to preventing a dps from pulling. I have ran ops with many guilds on my server. As a full 63 geared Marauder I can and have pulled agro against every single tank I have worked with if in the beginning I do a standard rotation. A tank simply can not generate enough threat vrs the threat I generate per point of dmg. I MUST camo many times before I even get halfway through a burst rotation (target of target switches to me). Only pain is I can dump my agro as soon as I see myself get targetted by the boss and when I dump the second dps tends to get destroyed because they are higher than the tank and if they dump it goes to our third top dps before the tank can get control again. By doing our "ridiculous strategy" none of our tanks have agro issues after the start of any fight. I pull agro, pop a defensive cool down finish my rotation during which I get hit maybe once, tank finally taunts, I camo, and none of our other dps pull and we can all go full out max dps without the tanks ever loosing agro again. Otherwise if I am guarded at the start of a fight it can help keep me from pulling but if I get a couple good crits I still pull even guarded. Again I have raided with many of the guilds on my server and its not just my guilds tanks that I have to watch but pretty much any tank I have worked with. In the beginning of a fight I can and will pull agro pretty much on demand unless I slack off so is it better I just hit assault (not even battering assault) for the first 10-15 seconds of a fight just to avoid pulling every time there is a phase change or tank swap or do our Micky Mouse method to set the tank on the top of the threat so the rest of us can full burn. While you might not agree...the method works if you are coordinated enough to pull it off.

Or as a tank you can go one step further and utilize the dps to propel you up the agro table. I always wait and see how smart the tank is in a group and decide if I can go get a drink of water at the start of a fight to give a tank the time to gain agro, or if the tank uses me to place himself in control and hold agro like a champ.

Marauders are pure dps...they don't do anything other than beat things. That being said yes a smart marauder should know to lay back a bit in the beginning unless you are agro stacking (explained in a bit) and always be ready to use camo off cool down or when target of target changes to the marauder. As for agro stacking. This comes from discussions on the tank forums and some theory crafting with our guild tanks. Every point of dmg done translates into an amount of agro on a target. If you are agro stacking you want your top dps (be it a marauder, merc, sniper etc) to lay into a boss hard and heavy in the beginning. The tank will use hate generating attacks but no taunts at the very start. Wait what you might be saying right. The idea is to have a marauder go in and burst dmg. Remember every point of dmg translates into an amount of agro. So the Marauder jumps in and bursts while the tank uses a couple attacks that generate additional hate but again they do not taunt just yet. The Marauder WILL pull agro. Once the Marauder pulls agro for a second or two, the tank then taunts (don't taunt going in wait for the top dps to build agro). Taunt will place the tank on the top of the agro list putting the tank higher in threat than the marauder. At that point the marauder needs to camo once the tank taunts and takes agro. This drops the marauders agro significantly. Then the tank can put guard on the marauder to reduce the agro gain the marauder gets attacking and helps the tank stay on top of the agro list. Theory crafting is that if a tank goes in and taunts right off he is top of the agro list but the lack of dmg does't place the tank very high on the agro table. A tank taunts at the start and during that 6-8 seconds where the boss is on the tank the dps are racking up threat that quite possibly will exceed what small value the tank has from the initial taunt and thus pull agro. Picture a table from 0 to 100. At the start of a fight the tank taunts before any dps hits the boss. The tank is placed say 5 out of 100 on the agro table. Meanwhile the dps is climbing the table and at the end of the 6-8 second time where the boss is on the tank, dps could be around 15-20 out of 100. Result once the taunt runs out the boss turns on the dps that is higher on the table than the tank and then the tank must taunt back if able to or let the dps take a beating until the tanks taunt is back up. But if you have a dps go in and the tank only use attacks that increase threat (no taunt yet) in the first few seconds the dps will climb to 10-20 out of 100 on the agro table for example. Yes the dps has agro and will take a hit or two. But if the tank waits for the burst to complete (say marauder ends up at 25 out of 100 on the agro table) then taunts...the tank moves to 26 on the agro table (since taunt moves the tank to the top of the agro list). At which point the marauder camo's (agro dumps) and drops down to say 12 on the table. Additionally after the taunt the tank then puts guard on the marauder to further reduce their agro generation so they can not exceed the tanks position on the agro table during the fight. What this does is places the tank high on the agro table and in most cases (baring agro dumps by the boss) should remain always higher on the agro table than any other member of the raid/group. This is why its easy to pull agro at the start of a fight (tank never climbs high on agro table by themselves) and harder to pull later in a fight (where the tank has taunted additional times to take the top spot on the table over the dps... especially if the dps is agro dumping often). "Agro stackin" lets a tank climb higher on the agro table off their first taunt by letting dps build agro faster than a tank can on their own. Its a timing thing and when done right lets your dps pretty much go full out from start to finish without laying back while a tank builds good threat. This method the tank lets the dps build good threat then puts himself on top of their threat level to take control. Let a dps burst building agro at first and then have the tank taunt to propel themselves up the table while the dps agro dumps and you can pretty much guarantee the tank will keep and hold agro the rest of the fight while your dps goes full tilt from the get go. Just have your dps do one rotation then agro dump at the start of each boss fight and the tank taunt after the dps finish their rotations but before the top dps agro dumps (here is the timing issue) to take the number 1 spot on the agro table by a large margin. When done correctly the tank receives a huge boost to their position on the agro table and can keep control of the boss the rest of the fight while dps goes crazy. DPS need to remember to agro dump off cool down to help the tank maintain top spot or even better if in vent have the tank call out taunt and then have all dps dump agro to maximize the tanks spot on the agro table. Also for those that don't know...in PvE guard does not add additional dmg to the tank from aoe or direct dmg against the one being guarded. The dmg reduction/transfer is only in PvP not PvE. Most times when I pug a group I always laugh and take a bet how many pulls will it take to get the tank to change his guard from the healer to my marauder Usually only takes one pull or even mid pull I will see guard get swapped to me. Only time guarding a healer might be useful is if you have a group of mobs and can't aoe taunt enough to hold them all to the point healing could pull agro but in general guarding a healer only shows to the group that the tank is a noob. You got a mid to well geared tank, a mid to well geared healer, a low to mid geared dps, and a well geared dps. You would be surprised how many times the healer gets guard at the start instead of the well geared dps. Then the tank has to scramble to keep control until he changes guard to the real threat to his control. So either the dps has to hold back at the start of a fight while the tank works to build threat, or you agro stack and let dps build the tanks threat for him. Once the dps takes agro for a second or two and then the tank taunts the placement on the agro table soars for the tank and usually the tank wont loose agro for the rest of the fight (again as long as no agro dump mechanics by the boss and dps keep on top of their dumps). Our raid tank used to have issues keeping agro from my marauder until he started to work with me to maximize his threat. Once we started working together we have been able to maximize dps from the start of a fight through the end of the fight and apart from the start of the fight the tank never looses agro. So either lay back and use weak attacks till your tank feels he has enough agro before you open up, or use the agro stacking trick to propel your tank up the agro list and keep up max dps throughout a fight.

In the PvP area the champion has less hit points and doesn't do as much dmg. The spawns are silvers instead of elites. It is faster and easier to do it in the PvP area. Depending on gear the Heroic mission isn't that tough. I have duo'ed it in the PvE area using healing companions, could solo it in the PvP area if I could have my healing companion up. The mission takes easily half the time to do in the PvP area since its half the fight of the PvE version. Plus the PvE pylons are usually crowded and have 2 or 3 groups fighting over the champion and spawn switches vrs the PvP pylons that are generally empty all the time. Sure you take a bigger risk in the PvP are that someone will jump you mid pull but that's also why the mobs are easier down there than in the PvE areas.

General Loot Etiquette when in a group (for the life of me I don't understand why this is still an issue for people unless they just haven't played MMO's before): Need: Need is when an item is an upgrade for the character you are currently on and will be equipped as soon as possible. Exceptions: (using need to over-ride greed rolls after asking permission) 1.) The item will be an upgrade in a level or two. Generally considered nice to state that the item will be an upgrade once you obtain level and ask the group if anyone has a problem with you needing it. This is done in case there is someone in your group at level that can equip the item now. They may respond they don't care if you need or not meaning they are willing to roll against you for the item. Or they may say they can use now meaning they would prefer if you can not use the item now then let someone that can get it first. You can still need on it but you risk upsetting the balance or offending someone and could get kicked from group. 2.) You see others have rolled greed for an item that you can use in a level or two or could use for a companion. You first ask the group if anyone would mind if I need that for and give reason. Example: For when I reach level or for my companion. Generally asking the group they will say sure or go for it. If someone contests it by saying I can use that for my companion too but they have already selected greed then Etiquette would dictate that you should greed as well to keep things fair and peaceful. Needing after asking and having someone challenge the item is a good way to tick off others in group and cause extra drama that could get you kicked from group. If the item is for your class in a level or two generally that would be seen as a need over giving it to a companion and people should let you need it since it is for the character you on currently on. (Example a piece of heavy armor drops and no one else in group uses heavy armor but it is 2 levels higher than you. You can need for the item since it will be an upgrade for your current character and should not cause any issues with others in the group even if they are wanting for a companion. Companions are seen as a greed option 99% of the time but asking the group you can sometimes need for a companion as long as the group has no problem with it. Don't assume that the group saying sure no problem for one item gives you the right to need on anything for the same reason the rest of the run. Be fair. ) 3.) A Bind on Equip item drops and you do not need for your current character. You can ask the group if you can need on the item for an alt or companion. Group will say either sure or will say no because with it being BoE anyone in the group could use it for an alt or companion or even to sell in which case all should roll greed and let Random chance decide. 4.) An item completes a set. Again good thing to do is to ask the group. Hey can I need on this its a piece of a set I am collecting. Group will say no problem and you can roll need or if they do have any issues will expect you to roll greed and take your chances like everyone else. **Generally by communicating with your group you can avoid situations where others get upset over drops. Its a social decision. You can either cooperate and have a good time or be a jerk and get booted, called a ninja, or get a bad rep on your server. Greed: The item is not an upgrade but could be an upgrade for an alt, companion, or just to vendor for coin. You can ask your group if you can need on a greed item and most times groups will not have a problem as long as you ask. Otherwise most situations if its not an upgrade for the character you are on then you should just greed anything else and take your chances like everyone else. Greed is the easiest choice to avoid any group drama. You are taking a chance like everyone else so it feels more fair and less likely to offend or make others upset. Some will even say even if you can use for an alt or companion you should still greed and if someone else wins ask them privately if you can have or buy the item from them (more so now that even Bind on Pickup items can be traded to eligible group members for 2 hours). Again the biggest key is communication. You will find most people are easy going and as long as you ask they have no problem with you needing in a greed situation. But if you need in a greed situation without communicating with your group you run the risk of offending or ticking someone off which could get you kicked from group, and or a bad reputation. Pass: Easy one...you have no need in an item, really don't care who gets it, not even interested in vendoring for coin. Generally people that are already geared out or financially comfortable will pass on most things so that those that could use the item can get it. I often run flash points just to pass time. There is nothing that I need or could even use and maybe I am grouped with new to lvl characters or less financially secure players so will often pass on everything so that others can get the items to use or vendor to help them out. Personal choice and a social choice. Again the main thing is communication. Most players are pretty laid back and if no one else has a greater need for a drop will have no problem letting you pick up the drop for other use. If someone else has a greater need then you should greed/pass (Say the tank in your group needs an item you should not need roll for your tank companion as well...quick way to tick someone off). If someone has an issue with you needing when they could also claim need then generally both agree to need or everyone just greed's and let fate decide. If you just need willy nilly then you are bound to offend someone and risk getting kicked, or a bad reputation. Some people don't care and only think of themselves and will need every thing because they are in the flash point and feel entitled or just being jerks to be a jerk. These are the loot ninja's people often comment about and the cause why some people are less tolerant of others needing items their character can not use regardless if its for an alt or a companion. Most people will say Need only for the character you are on, greed for alts and companions as a flat rule. But again if you communicate with your group you can need in other situations and not tick anyone off. TLDR: Need for your current character only if you can equip right away. Greed for anything else (alt, companion, vendor, GTN). Communicate with your group if you want to do something different and abide by the consensus.

You get what you asked for. Well not asked for more like whined for. "This game is too buggy to be paying $15 dollars a month." "There's not enough to do to justify $15 dollars a month." "Why should I pay $15 dollars a month to beta test." Yada yada yada. You demanded free to play, you got free to play and all the evils it brings with it. "Other games are successful being free to play and offer more than SWTOR.." So yea...free to play now means you get nickeled and dimed to death. Oh you want a cool new speeder...Cartel Market for real money. Oh you want some cosmetic gear...cartel market with real money. You all have opened Pandora's box. Why "give" anything away for free to subscribers paying $15 dollars a month when we can now put it on the Cartel Market and get people to spend $40 or more in hopes of getting what they wanted per month....in some cases on top of the $15 dollars a month subscription. Its a win / win situation for EA/Bioware. They now can make more money per cartel market update than they probably make via subscriptions. All the cries for Free to Play created this monster. Its like the dark side...once you taste the power and become corrupted by it, you can not stop the monster from gorging itself on the weak minded that thought Free to Play with a money shop was the right answer.

I admit I will miss my pummel strike on my marauder. Yea it was situational but I actually did use it quite often on weak and strong mobs after a force scream or aoe fear. Was one of those flashy moves even the leg kick for the warrior I used for a bit of flash...would use my slow then leg kick them, then turn to next weak, force scream and pummel strike. Was entertaining action and looked pretty darn cool too. They could have removed the incap requirement and maybe lowered the dmg so they could be used as normal attacks rather than just take them out. A little flash is good.

You can have social points in PvP when the PvEers get valor for doing flash points. Valor just like social levels don't mean anything but unlocking special items and gear pieces. After all you put someone valor 100 against someone valor 10 but have them in the exact same gear and the valor rank means nothing. The valor 10 could vary well kill the valor 100 in a level playing field. But you will counter and say valor is a reflection on the time spent doing PvP....well social is a reflection on the time spent doing flash points as a part of a group. Just as you can say everyone should have to suffer through valor levels...so should you have to suffer through countless flash points.

See that would work. There are many planets that have cross faction area's but rarely anything ever happens. You know why? No reward. Most of the kiddes today don't do anything for "fun" there has to be incentive and reward otherwise they would rather spend their time on the forums crying there is no world PvP when really there is and can be, but unless there is a reason to be there its not worth their highly valued time. Tell them the reason to be there is to have fun, do world PvP, support and defend your faction and they will say yea but there's no valor or com rewards. Players can create PvP but nowadays its more about the reward than the effort.

Not saying you don't like to PvP or your guild doesn't like to PvP. Just saying that most only like to PvP as long as they have the advantage. Like killing PvE players in PvP area's because you know they wont be a challenge and if they are you have a group or more to ride in and save your arse if you get into trouble. Same way so many self proclaimed "hard core" PvPer's go nuts every time a suggestion to separate the high valor pre-made groups from the low valor solo que players. Many (if not most) PvPer's only have fun as long as they dominate. Match them in an equal fight and they will have fun at first then start crying how hard it is or god forbid you get put against a better geared/higher valor PvPer many will quit instead of risking their egos by getting beat. I have been a carebear PvE player. I have been a PvP player, I have been a hard core sand box rules open PvP bastard and loved it. Generally you love PvP because it tests your skills against someone else. But over the last several years it seems the old school UO/Lineage PvP crowd has retried and we are flooded by cheat code wannabe's that expect to always win and if they lose its not their fault...its a mechanic issue or someone is OP or PvP is unbalanced or whatever excuse they want to use. I hear more excuses from PvP players than QQ's from PvE carebears anymore.

If they created a PvP world where only PvPer's would go to PvP it would die out faster than ending the gree event killed the open pvp on Ilum. You know why? PvPer's don't want to fight other PvPer's. To likely to get evenly matched or out geared by a more senior player. But when you PvP during a PvE event where PvE players are doing quests...then even the worst PvP players can have fun attacking non-PvP players and stroking their Epeens in general chat when the PvE carebears cry about getting ganked. Seriously you create a full time world that is 100% world PvP with no PvE draw to it and set up so you could not exploit mechanics to farm valor levels or coms; that world would be dead. Why? Because "it's not worth it" might as well queue for PvP match than waste time on a PVP only world without extra rewards. Why bother with a fair or even fight against other PvP players when its so much easier and funner to roll over under geared PvE players that have no interest in PvP. Feels to good to slaughter a PvE carebear and then taste their tears while they cry in general chat about getting killed questing in a PvP enabled area. This is the attitude of todays PvP players. Also why so many hardcore PvP players are against separating Pre-made PvP groups from single queue PvP players. Because being over geared and coordinated it's more fun wiping under geared noobs than facing a team that could possibly kick their arse. Why risk rank when its easier to roll over under geared players than face an equal fight? Its funny people want PvP but only if they can out gear or fight players that don't want to PvP. Facing an evenly matched or over geared enemy is too scary for their delicate egos.

Ah see that is the rub. People scream for world PvP when its already possible. There are several planets where you can engage the enemy faction and even some area's that are free-for-all. But one thing is missing. A reward. Its funny people scream give us world PvP yet they only want world PvP that awards something. Apparently PvPer's need an incentive to PvP. Without an incentive open PvP is "worthless". I thought the whole thing about PvP was to compare Epeens and who's was bigger not about coms or rank or some other reward. Its bragging rights and domination not vendor credit.