So because I did not use the word "pitch" my argument was invalid? Great logic there... Grow up. You knew what I meant, but weren't able to be mature enough to address the points I made? But I did notice how you've still avoided answering the question of whether a key binding for "pitch" is a silly idea. Of course, this is my best guess at the argument you're trying to make. I don't believe I ever said that the joystick feels right. But I did say that it is incredibly hard for me to acclimate to because of decades of gaming with traditional joystick controls. Yes I'm aware that joystick controls are not an easy task because of their analog nature. It would be nice to have that, but what I'm asking for is a key binding for changing nose down and up "pitch" of the craft. I didn't find it. Did I miss it? Seriously, I'll shut the hell up if you can point this out to me. So let me get this straight, because that statement is illogical. I'm saying (from my own personal experience) that a new/optional control method (for GS) would improve my gaming experience, but you're saying that it won't improve my experience... And you base this on...? The best I can figure for what you're trying to say is "You suck at GS because you're a loser. And you'll always be a loser because you suck"? Your debate skills are truly scary! Did you seriously just make the argument that preference does not improve performance? So you've never moved a skill button from one bar to another or changed the sensitivity/speed of the mouse? So you'd be just as happy and effective with a 800x600 screen resolution? Learn to think before you speak. (Yes, both meanings of that last sentence are intended.)

Dude, you totally had me there for a second! At first I thought you were being a lame flamer like the others, but then I saw the irony with the Richard Dawkins quote in your signature about objectivity. I agree with you, their arguments are so biased and have no basis except to say "Quit whining", like they are in kindergarten. I agree with you that it is sad that so few people on forums can communicate intelligently, objectively, and with decorum. Yes, I know what was actually meant, but the compounding irony was just too much to pass up.

I agree, the controls are horrible because they combine mouse behavior with flight behavior and offer no way to choose one way or the other. It is amazing that the oposers can manage nothing more than infantile and nonsensical insults.

So... Anyone going to actually discuss the topic instead of trying to convince others that their perspective is the only one that matters? (I'm not talking to the few that don't fit into this category.) Seriously, what does it hurt to add new features to the interface that these people defend? It wouldn't thange how they do things, just allow more options. I can't understand why people think that this notion is deserving of (what they think) are insults. Just because it works for you, doesn't mean it is right for everyone. Especially when it can be augmented with minimal effort.

it does not work if you can't use the pitch up and down key binds because they are not there. fair? I'm not sure you know what that means. If we all have access to the same key binds, then it is still fair. it would be unfair if I had access to capabilities that others did not.

you see, that's just the thing. I can't configure the controls to work the way I want them to. The configuration possibilities are tiny. I have a d pad and I want to use a mouse. I think that is the best way for me, as an individual, to excel in this game using my previous experience with flight simulators.how freaking hard is it to add a feature to allow the up and down keys to point knows down and up? That is what I'm looking for, ultimately. I can use a left handed d pad and a mouse at the same time. This would allow me to use the d-pad to control the craft like a plane, but also use the mouse to target more effectively at the same time. That is, as long as the mouse did not affect navigation of the craft. All I'm looking for is a few options, and I'm amazed that at least one of these two things is not there.

Pitch, as in nose down and nose up. Every flight simulator I've ever played functions like a pilot's stick. Forward goes down, back goes up, and the sides roll the craft. So that is how aerial games have always worked. Now, you add a mouse into the mix, it is the opposite and in conflict. You're used to the mouse going up with forward and down with back, they are opposite. Even if you invert the mouse to compensate, then you got something that looks like a mouse pointer but doesn't act like one. You can try to defend it all you want, but it goes against decades of standards and does not make accomodations for those who want something that the industry has conditioned us to use for decades.

Seriously, mouse only? No joystick support? I hope the devs are embarassed, because the controls are just stupid. I can't stand to pilot that train wreck! 1. Add Joystick support. What annoys me most is that centering the mouse is a pain. If you want to turn fast, you have to turn up your mouse speed, but then that makes basic turning a freaking nightmare! 2. Until then, can we have a hotkey for pitch down and up? Then we could use arrow keys, or anything else, to pilot the ship and just use the mouse to move the targeting reticle. Why would you add a hotkey for roll left/right and not roll forward/back? 3. Add toggle to the effect of, "Mouse can turn ship. This way, I could use my D-Pad to pilot the ship (because of step 2) and the mouse wouldn't throw me off course whenever it hit the edge of the targeting circle. So you tried to do something different and have the weapons be swivel mounted. Good thinking. But don't forget about the thousands of people who have always used a joystick or D-Pad. Whoever the game designer is for that part needs to be reamed... After flying two games, I decided the navigation was so stupid and frustrating that the rest of the features and hard work means nothing because the lack of control customization pisses me off to no end!

Because my family duties only allow me random 30 minute blocks, I primarily PvP and really have loved it. That being said, they really messed up PvP balance with 1.2 though. Hardcore PvP'ers seem to be unsubbing in droves, based on how few people seem to be PvPing on my server now. I had mostly centurion gear so my many hours of advancing my pvp gear was completely wasted. I saw a Mac-Daddy Juggernaught Tank with 25k HP melt in 4 seconds from focussed fire... My 14k HP makes me feel like I'm playing an FPS twitch game now, not cool. With 3-4 people hitting me I last all of 4-6 seconds. IMO it should be more like 6-10 seconds. Sneaky classes can now solo "Backstab" stunlock me so I essentially am able to start fighting them with 25% health left... Meaning I can sometimes manage to press cloak before they deliver the killing blow, but I still can't run out of their ranged distance before my cloak expires. However I've run into more and more "Backstab" player-pairs lately that alternate their stunlocks on subsequent players. Meaning I've literally died instantly, respawned and ran to the combat point and was insta-popped again, which could continue all game theoretically. You now have to earn 3 medals to get anything, which sometimes isn't possible when playing against a premade team, yet the game still allows you to join mid-game so you have a greater chance of wasting your time if you can't get 3 medals before time lapses, making your warzone commendation awards from losses about 25%-50% of what it used to be... Not cool when you are you are in your team's top 3 damage dealer every game, but get NOTHING. I was looking forward to Ranked PvP being implemented because premade PvP groups ruin play if you are in a pick-up group. Ranked would aleviate much of that. Furthermore individual ELO ratings would be awesome for this. Server populations are getting sparse, so you end up playing the same players repeatedly. This means that I have to stop PvPing, out of futility, when I face a premade group because I get so little rewards from losing now and know I'll face them often in the following 30 minutes... Cross server PvP would have made this situation a lot better. Have gotten stuck twice in warzones now, and "/Stuck" doesn't work at all. Which is not fun when playing with friends because you can't get back into the game if you disc or drop WZ, but can't get any medals. Illum is a joke!

Myself, I like: Rakghoul event is very cool Legacy stuff is nice for alts (There a guide anywhere for this?) GUI customization is awesome, but wish hotkey bars could have more than 12 PvP, for me, has become less fun because of (1.) Balance issues as well as (2.) The removal of Ranked and cross-server PvP from the patch [Would help with a lot of issues.] What about you?

Lol! "I'm leaving the game and giving out money. Whatever isk amount you send me I'll double!" I'd love to see em al in eve strolling around in their huge shiny new battleships, only to get wtfpwned by me in my Minmatar cruiser! The only way a game could be more hard core than Eve is if death meant rolling up a fresh character. On topic though, I'm republic on kaas city and 1/3rd of our losses yield no Wz because of sith premades in full BM gear, on vent, focus firing each character in under 4 secs each. No way to get 4 medals. I've screenshotted each win/loss and am putting the data in a spreadsheet soon. As a sentinel, I can't heal or tank for someone. I often do top damage of my team but get no Wz because I only got 3 medals. I guess I'll have to stop fighting and sit at turrets to have a chance at getting something out of my 10-20 minutes of pvp.

I feel this thread is worth putting in General discussion because it affects so many in a significantly unfair way. Old Thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=390814 For most people, Fun in an MMO is created by a combination of character advancement and balanced/fun content. I really enjoy PvP as it isn't horribly imbalanced. But as a Champion, my character advancement is being removed with patch 1.2. The new gear: Helps new 50's HURTS Champions Same for Battlemasters (Well, except that new 50's have a slight chance to win now.) Recruit set takes ZERO PvP grind time and is as good as those of us that ground 63+ hours of PvP for Champion gear. Champions are losing 63+ hours. (See math at bottom of section) New 50's are gaining 63+ hours on everyone. Are Battlemaster geared players losing 63+ hours of work? No, because their progress toward the next tier is retained in 1.2 as it is used to buy War Hero gear. Champion progress, toward next tier, will not be retained. 63+ Hrs of work will be lost because we don't get those WZ comms back towards buying Battlemaster. Patch 1.1x PvP gear levels: 0. Without PvP gear 1. Centurion- One step above new 50's (Small effort, 16 Hrs) 2. Champion- Two steps above new 50's (Moderate effort, 63 Hrs) 3. Battlemaster- Can't get any better (Significant effort) Patch 1.2 PvP gear levels: -1 Centurion 0. Recruit- New 50's. Made zero because anyone can buy it instead of speeder skill at 50 0. Champion- Zero steps above new 50's. Used to be two steps above new 50's. Equal to Recruit gear. 1. Battlemaster- Same distance from Champ level in previous patch 2. War Hero PROPOSAL for 1.2 PvP gear levels: 0. Centurion- Change stats to be equal to recruit gear. 0. Recruit- New 50's. Made zero because anyone can buy it instead of speeder skill at 50 1. Champion- One step above new 50's. Used to be two steps above new 50's 2. Battlemaster- Same distance from Champ level in previous patch 3. War Hero MATH Optimally, doing all daily/weeklies gets you 24 bags = 360 centurion comms for about 14 hours a week, buying 4 bags at 800 WZ each. Cent set is 432 which takes about 16.4 hours of grind. 168 Champ comms per 14 hour week at 7 per bag x 24 bags. Champ set is 743 4.5 weeks (63 Hrs) to get a full set

New thread in General Discussion. Please use that instead. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3775526#post3775526 (Locked immediately because it might make BioWare look bad.) I have revised my original post and added the following: BioWare is Knowingly Spitting On Champion PvP Geared Players Condensed version: Edited from some nice contributors to this thread. For most people, Fun in an MMO is created by a combination of character advancement and balanced/fun content. I really enjoy PvP as it isn't horribly imbalanced. But as a Champion, my character advancement is being removed with patch 1.2. The new gear: Helps new 50's HURTS Champions Same for Battlemasters (Well, except that new 50's have a slight chance to win now.) Recruit set takes ZERO PvP grind time and is as good as those of us that ground 63+ hours of PvP for Champion gear. Champions are losing 63+ hours. (See math at bottom of section) New 50's are gaining 63+ hours on everyone. Are Battlemaster geared players losing 63+ hours of work? No, because their progress toward the next tier is retained in 1.2 as it is used to buy War Hero gear. Champion progress, toward next tier, will not be retained. 63+ Hrs of work will be lost because we don't get those WZ comms back towards buying Battlemaster. Patch 1.1x PvP gear levels: 0. Without PvP gear 1. Centurion- One step above new 50's (Small effort, 16 Hrs) 2. Champion- Two steps above new 50's (Moderate effort, 63 Hrs) 3. Battlemaster- Can't get any better (Significant effort) Patch 1.2 PvP gear levels: -1 Centurion 0. Recruit- New 50's. Made zero because anyone can buy it instead of speeder skill at 50 0. Champion- Zero steps above new 50's. Used to be two steps above new 50's. Equal to Recruit gear. 1. Battlemaster- Same distance from Champ level in previous patch 2. War Hero PROPOSAL for 1.2 PvP gear levels: 0. Centurion- Change stats to be equal to recruit gear. 0. Recruit- New 50's. Made zero because anyone can buy it instead of speeder skill at 50 1. Champion- One step above new 50's. Used to be two steps above new 50's 2. Battlemaster- Same distance from Champ level in previous patch 3. War Hero MATH Optimally, doing all daily/weeklies gets you 24 bags = 360 centurion comms for about 14 hours a week, buying 4 bags at 800 WZ each. Cent set is 432 which takes about 16.4 hours of grind. 168 Champ comms per 14 hour week at 7 per bag x 24 bags. Champ set is 743 4.5 weeks (63 Hrs) to get a full set

as for is star wars fans go I would place myself in the top 10 or 5 percent of those. I love star wars. But I love eve online even more. The reason that I had to stop playing and take on this game was because I had kids and that game requires blocks of time that are too large for me to be able to commit to. and to answer everyone else, I really like pvp more than I like pve. however I also like playing my character to improve his abilities in some noticeable way. until patch 1. 2 I have lost my ability to progress my character's pvp eficiency. because I don't have the time to become a battle master, I cannot improve my character in pvp until the patch goes live.

And losing your effort time and gear lead on the who haven't even started yet.