800 more than other classes? Holy **** that's a lot to lead by. But that's good to know that guardians are still viable and not just as filler anymore. Might get back into the swing of things and I'd hate to play a class that's pretty much regarded as a tank

Vanguards are best melee now huh? How do Guardians stack up? And I heard commandos are the best now? And truth be told I'm surprised to hear any commandos being top healers XD

DPS! As the title states, I need you all to give it to me straight here when I ask which class does it best these days. Let's start with.... Best Class for DPS, Melee Best Class for DPS, Ranged Best DPS Class Overall Best Class for Tanking Best Class For Healing Please enlighten a poor soul seeking to get back into the swing of things!

I quit for a couple of months for ESO and I come back to SWTOR to find........Pretty much the same thing, almost. Guardians are still the laughing stock of DPS you say eh? Not too surprising, but after playing a little the things to make us better from my view point would be: 1) Increase our DoTs by a rather hefty amount. And I mean all of our DoTs, by say 30% more damage. 2) Give us passive Armor Pen, not a lot but not a little either, say for every point in accuracy we get 3% armor Penetration for all of our moves. This I feel would be our biggest boon since most of our damage comes from our weapon. 3) Give us some utility. If you all insist on keeping Guardians on a lower DPS poll than other classes, give a Raid Leader an incentive to bring a Guardian along to his raid. Take the Buffs and Aids a Sentinel has and give them all to the Guardian. In this idea the goal is that the Guardian will do subpar DPS but offer an incredible amount of support, which can stack once or twice to make room for more, while the Sentinels do obscene amounts of damage but only that, raw damage.

I didn't read a damn thing past the first page, and for that I apologize in advance. That said, let's commence on a short, basic, rather stupid yet thoughtful and possibly brilliant list of how to pump our utility, because with the recent changes proposed on the PTR (12 sec master strike without lowering the damage it does LOLOLOL) our dps will not be lacking to say the least. Also, to note, most of what I'm saying here is pretty much for Vigilance, since, well, our utility is less feasible than a wet noodle. To that end, I propose only one actual damage increasing ability that's for us Guardians alone, and that is to have Riposte be a free-of-charge move while Shien form is active. No focus cost, no need to have to parry something, it's just there to use an easy to pop filler whenever the chance arises. Moving past that, let's talk shop about utility. We need it. Why do we need it? Because we *********** lack it outside of PvP, and even then, it's pretty ****astic. Now THAT said, my ideas aren't too well thought out but they're basic and rather plain-in-sight enough to be looked at seriously. First one is!: Make Focused Defense cast a barrier on everybody. In a similar vein to a guardian's challenging call giving everyone a small barrier for a short duration, this one would do literally the same thing whenever a guardian popped Focused Defense, helping to protect his own hide and everyone elses, but with an added bonus; All healing received is increased by 2%. Why this? Because it makes the healers'- Perhaps the most important person in a raid short that ONE main tank- job a bit easier, which should always be welcome. But only 2%, anything higher might be too much and make some things too powerful and easy, since this would also work in PvP. Second thing is!: Dust Storm (Defense first tier talent, like literally the first one you see) just became a passive effect! Now every guardian can use Force Sweep, something in every guardian's rotation, to lower enemy accuracy by 5%! ANother big thing that saves people's asses on occasion, especially in PvP I would think! To replace that talent, I would imagine something that increased the % would be added in it's place. 5% tbh is rather abysmal on NPC's, but I could see 8-10 being AWESOME. Moving on. Preparation. God this talent angers me. WHY DO YOU EXIST, WHY WAS THIS PUT IN!? EVERYTHING IN THE TREES MAKESE SENSE TO BE THERE, THIS DOES NOT, THIS LITERALLY HAS NO PURPOSE OTHER THAN CONVENIENCE AND EVEN THEN THAT'S JACK USELESS. Ahem, sorry, angry outburst is angry. Change Preparation to help aid your fellow raid members, so that every time you popped Master Strike or Overhead Slash or Plasmabrand or any high tier Vigil-Only move, it increased the party's Alacrity by X amount. Whatever you feel appropriate because I have no effen clue, this is just something thrown out there as an idea for other classes to benefit from, because: utility. I'm done for now, my brain's fried, I had more ideas, but not anymore, sorry. I'll shut up now.

Honestly that bit about Up Time and "Do You Know" made me feel like a god damn pro again. Thank you for that.

I have A LOT to say to all of this but atm I am quite very tired and it is past 3am where I live, so I will return when I can and finish dusting this off.

I think what he meant was replacing it with those skills, and frankly with what those are proposed to do, it would set us apart from other Armor Debuffing Classes while granting us a rather nice boon to our proc chances and overall DPS and utility. I like it.

Yeap, not gonna lie, I had an honest laugh at this lol

The only armor copies that match both sides come from the cartel market. After that, everything differs greatly in appearance. The one thing BioWare did very right was to make sure both sides are easily distinguishable.

See, this is the crap we're talking about. You refuse to type straight or at least even try and thus your posts look like a ten year old on crack and mental disabilities, yet you actually have a really good idea popped in there; A raid wide Resource Restoration Skill. Nobody has mentioned that until now and it f-ing kills me that we can't understand you because you type like a ******* on purpose. Also glad to see someone agrees on the Guard/Riposte doing stuff depending on what form you're in.

This is from my phone so it'll be a bit choppy. Possible utility buffs: raid wide increase to healing, aoe that increases elemental damage, alacrity buff raid wide, increased defenses/shielding.

I still think Slash is nearly useless and I wonder immensely how people who are in Shien Form manage to use it, because I have never touched it in Vigil Spec and I easily pull 2.5-2.8k DPS in Operations. Also, healing of the group doesn't seem to so bad, in fact ANYTHING that involves helping our group sticks out as proper for the Guardian class since that's technically what we are Flavor Wise. We're the leaders, the inspirational guides, and the guys who charge in head first to lead the way and show our comrades how it's done. That said, raid-wide utility buffs sounds great to me.

The Dreaded Double Post! Or to make this REALLY simple and easy on BioWare, just increase the damage done by Guardians by 10% across the board. Bam, done.

This seems a tad over-cumbersome, and still a little lack luster. As for what can be fixed right now, the following might suffice: - Zen Strike Proc increased to 45% - Riposte being made multi-stance, with Shien Form having increased damage (thinking 15% more while in Shien Form to make it a priority skill) and no longer needing a defense chance to proc it, and Focus having similar, but instead reduces all damage taken by 5% for 10 seconds after it's usage. - Guard also being made multi-class and I could see this happening with all tank/dps hybrids. While in their respective DPS forms, in this case Shien and Shi-Cho, the effects change. Shien see's the Guardian and their target's dmg increase a whopping 2% while lowering each other's threat, and Focus Spec via Shi-cho will see the Guardian and their target's Armor Pen increase by 4%. - Focused Defense no longer costs focus to use. Huzzah.