Make here as it was in this game - this is more than enough.

it's almost my idea http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6962491&postcount=360

this^ I played Vengeanse with an early start and this spec has never been to the mountaintop. Even in the best of times when crit was to Saber Throw and before nerfin GS, a spec was maximum in the middle between the strongest and weakest. I almost never played smash because it was difficult, demanding certain tactics and abilities to monitor cooldowns. I'm an average player and played a convenient and easy spec. But then things started to change ... Now smash simply prohibitively stupid spec, they are constantly running with a full resource and every cooldown is ready to use. And multiply that by divine defensive Marauder skills and Vengeans just fades and loses any positives at all. I almost did not play other classes as I have always played in all chose melee. I could write off all but its a broken arm, but it's worth I go for Vanguard or shadow, and the feeling that I have wings. I fly in and warzone sow death and destruction instead of standing in control with his glowing toothpick and eat a ton of damage. Lately I've been playing on the forum than the game itself. I waited so long though what that positive changes but only became worse. Players offered so many good ideas, I've suggested a few, but you can see us down developers metric ... At least! need twice prolong Focused defensive, without use of the resource. Add to it immune to slow impairing effect. And given that the focus is the second jump, in vengeanse to it should be added 30% increase in speed(first 6 sec). Necessary as that rework Saber Reflect, in the best case it works against chaneled abilities. Increase front load damage. I would even do so with a PB have positive buff increases with every second chance to proc MS from 30% to 60%. OS has no cooldown and just serves to reset the cooldown on MS. Remove the hell lower limit for Saber Throw and Leaps, and so vengeanse problems with resource! In the name of the gods we're melee! And if it L2P issue, apply video where you dust wafting shadows Vanguard mixed with snipers. On "Void Star" behind having good healing can up numbers , but it does not mean anything. In general, the spec has long been deeply and completely broken:mad: And considering that right now, the game starts over again, throwing me Bsod, then I think it's time to take a break. ps sorry my wierd eng

I did not immediately respond to the first message because I was not sure if I understood correctly. Yes on all points is not enough, but it's basically normal. If you look at our competitor Vanguard or Sentinel, it is seen that after taking top tier abilities is enough points that you can spend to improve their branch. Whereas Vengeanse (at least in PvE) spends a lot of points on anadromous ability. Choice is good, the lack of choice, bad. Secondly, I did not want to complicate greatly mechanics. For melee important that all I was very clear as much time is spent on assessing the situation and twisting the camera. I need to know that the skill necessary for me at the right moment of time is always ready to use. You can certainly increase the chance to proc off of our DOTs. For example, "every time there is burning inflicts XX chance that it will increase the chance to proc on MS YY percent." But I do not like the idea of ​​folding probabilities and play continuously observing skill bar. I like the idea of ​​a martial trance rewarding for attending the goal, the more you stay on target become the stronger your attacks. And I think it fits well in Shien form, as opposed to Combat Infiltration branches, hoping for a quick bursting damage in a short period of time. To my proposal I would like to add some strengthening protection for example by 1% per stack Enlightenment / Raving. I suggested something similar. Instant Recover 50% of resources and increased by 100% regeneration for 6 seconds. You can add to this immune to movement impairing effects for 6 seconds. But we seem to have agreed that there should be Veng not like Sentinel. I like the idea of ​​offensive Guard. I would have done is simple and clear "Damage / Healing and Damage Reduction of your ward increase by 2%" And again about the lack of points. We have two abilities that can be easily unite in this one - Burning Blade/Draining Scream and Burning Purpose/Eviscerate. We are forcing them to take to raise the damage, but the amount of points spent on them totally incomparable with the impact which they bring. Merging these abilities will release two points in a branch that can be embedded in our proposals.

I do not know if anyone suggested anything like that, but I figured out how to elegantly solve bad RNG problem. Preparation / Seething Hatred - completely replace on Еnlightenment / Raving While in battle each next Master Strike / Ravage grants Еnlightenment (Raving) increases the chance of Zen Strike / Rampage proc by [2.5%, 5%] and next Sundering Strike (Sundering Assault), Saber Throw armor debuff by [2.5%, 5%]. Stacks up to 5 times. Exiting battle resets effect and reduced active cooldowns of Force Leap (Force Charge), Combat Focus (Enrage), and Saber Throw by [50 / 100]%. did not seem like Sent or not:rak_02:

But what's wrong with being a bit like a Sent? You just have to put the right question, as we see Veng in PvE / PvP? Personally, I see Vengeans a similar Tactics/APrototype(except the possibility of doing a hybrid). Class with a balanced damage / survival, where the couple abilities prepare powerful burst, and chenel needed as a filler that would allow to flow down cooldown. Class is capable to stick to the target and tie down her actions. But the current situation is such that the class does not represent anything special. No great damage to instantly change the situation on the battlefield, the class that lives exactly as much as living his group healer. Class that does not have any special skills that would guarantee him a place in the group. Funny, interesting, but you'll be much more productively playing for any other spec. Once again I apologize for my English

This is what I suggested earlier. http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=6920147&postcount=246 This improves the survival rate, gives us a second interrupt (instead of reducing the cooldown in the middle branch of Vanguard/PT) and solves problems with the resource management. I would add to this increase in distance of five meters. Still, compared with 30% AoE damage reduction and - 30% while stunned or Rebuke, our -20% damage for 4 seconds every 15 seconds, almost nothing has changed.

Somewhere deep in the forum suggested to make the FS/Choke free for channeling in Guardian AC. I think it's a great idea, given the fact that the Sentinel is much more hardy and has invisibility as a means of avoiding death, we need to have this stun, like other tanks. It's very strange but playing Defense Guardian with DPS gear I have the same number of wins as the Vigilance, but I still useful for party. I would prefer a one strong abilities, and one spamable filler than to have 3-4 medium-damage abilities. In PvP you simply do not have the time and you never will finish before the end of the rotation, especially for melee. The idea of ​​a free Slash good itself, but for pvp it will not have a major impact. So I am still a supporter of leaving MS as a basis for damage than the damage spread across multiple abilities.

From my point of view both of Defense Guardian and Vigilance Guardian is primarily designed for PVE where they deal in principle is not bad. But in terms of PVP I find they both seriously flawed and both deserve serious rethinking. DG suffers from a lack of serious debuff on the target, so it made sense to stay on target weakening it and making it vulnerable to attack by party members. As for the VG that he has no escape mechanism (such as - Transcendence or Hold the Line + Reactive Shield). I will never believe those who say that the Vigi/Veng is good and its L2P issue. Most likely you have had a great team that could well put pressure on the healer and in time saving your *** while you helplessly tried to get out of the roots, devouring tons of damage. I can be an average player, even bad it does not matter, because it suffices to compare the behavior of the VG and any other class reveals its potential in the same situation. My findings are disappointing: - the Vigi easy to kite - damage it easy to bypass - damage highly spread over time - impossible to get out of an unpleasant situation Solution: Gather Strength Whenever your movement is impaired, you gain Gather Strength incraising your next MS and FS by [10%, 20%] and reduce cheneling by [.5s, 1s]. This effect can stack up to 2 times and consume on use. Additionally Combat Focus grant [1, 2] stack of Gather Strength. Commanding Awe Reduces all damage taken by [2%, 4%]% at all times and by an additional [7.5%, 15%] and and increases movement speed by [15%, 30%]. while Focused Defense is active. Additionally reduces the cooldown of Awe by [7.5, 15] seconds. Focused Defense - remove any focus cost. Zen Strike - Overhead Slash, Plasma Brand and Saber Throw have reduce active cooldawn of MS by [2, 4, 6] second. Shien Form - Enters an offensive lightsaber form reducing cooldawn of MS by 5 second, increasing all damage dealt by 6% and movement speed by 15%. All attacks that cost focus will refund 1 focus when used. Remove Preparation and replace it Close Quarters - Reduces the minimum range of Force Charge by 5 meters. Force Rush - return the crit chance for Saber Throw.

I teach English playing TOR. And already read chat and forum as a native language and very well understand your gibberish. At first it was funny but now ... I think joke dragged on. on the subject It seems to me that we have gone too far in our fantasies. Devs will never go to such a big change. And I think we need to go back to probleme and try to fix them first. I'll write briefly what problems I see: - strongest dependence on randomness - frequent inability to deal full damage to the core ability - very limited utilities in raid Also, I have heard from many about resourse menegment problem and that the Vig/Veng easily kite. But since I mostly solo pvp I do not see the problem as a whole and can not be judged objectively. By this I beg to supplement or correct the abstracts for completeness. Each of our proposal should address only one problem from the list that will be key to the inability to perform their class role. For example: 1 RNG problem - raise the chance to proc / or lover cooldown / or ability XX reduces the active cooldown by 5(any other) seconds / or... 2 MS fix - root / or reduce of channeling / or ... 3 Utilities - offensive guard / or long term buff / or short burst buff on long cooldown abilitys / or ... etc So, we need to write out the problem and gather all the ways of their solutions in one place, otherwise the topic turned into a garbage dump unrealizable fantasies. By the way I like the idea of ​​a offensive guard. And I'd add that for that would have parity with Sent/Mara, I think we lack a short group buff. Like this: When activated, restores 50% of resources reduces all active cooldowns by 5 second and increasing regeneration resources by 25% over the next 6 seconds. ps many apologies for my English, I'm not a bad translate, but grammar still at school level:rolleyes:

Because TOR PVE game. Best PVP game will close on December 18. RIP Warhammer

Oh, sorry. Proposals to reduce the cooldown should go along with the increase in the chance to proc (eg 40-45%), and of course the need to Increase the time of the effect of the GS. I would also like to see the ability to withdraw from the battle but, given that we have a second leap would be too much. upd. No, bad idea. It is better to do without any RNG at all. Do not pay attention to this post.

I agree. But that's part of the problem. The fact that the metric can show that DPS Veng/Vigi at a comparable level to other DPS classes. But during a particular battle we are so dependent on the RNG. Somewhere on the forum there was a proposal to PB / OS is not refresh MS, but rather an active cooldown reduced to 5 seconds. Add to that: Single Saber Mastery: Shien Form: Increases all melee damage dealt by [2 / 4 / 6]%, in addition reduces the cooldown of MS by [1 / 3 / 5], seconds. thus it is possible to smooth dps but without raising its average value. So much for PvE and PvP is another problem MS is easily bypassed and interrupted by any class making it impossible to put something out of a significant damege. I suggested to reduce the time channeling MS and Stassis by 0.5 seconds per stack effect of Gather Strength (only reduce the stacks of up to 2, leaving the increasing damage and fixed it only for MS and Stassis, not all melee attacks) in conjunction with the Stager will give an excellent opportunity to store stacks of GS and bring MS to third tick. It's far more interesting than the stupid root on MS. And if you swap the Battlefield Command and Preparation (especially considering that the tank have nowhere to run, and his task is to stand near a node or guardi healer, plus he has Expeditious Protector), at the same time removing the lower bound for Force Leap(which also solves the problem with the force generation and to some extent reduce the vulnerability of kite), then the class will shine like never before

I had a bit of a crazy idea. Remove Impale/OS cooldown and increase Rage cost(similar to Maul/SS but do less damege and spamable), leave the Shatter/PB on 15 sec cooldown but increase the chance to reset MS/Ravage to 45 percent.

I've heard it many times. The tank does not have to kill DPS his task taunt and protect. DPS should not kill healers because there will be no point in playing them. Stealth class should kill everyone in every situation, because their class is called a murderer or even worse ... it is at least silly. The reason why healers are unkillable because SWTOR PvE game with PvP has attached to it. And there is almost nothing to bring the tanks on the battlefield but two taunt and little damage reduction. When viewed in the context of the survival of the tank can be easily replaced by another DPS, a healer not. For a object based warzone its that's enough. But if this game would have been an open mass PvP, then it would be clear what a bad connection between the tanks DPS and healers, and especially how helpless tanks on the battlefield. r.i.p Warhammer..