The ambiguity of not having a live in game damage meter

Now the topic of to have or not have damage meters and combat logs standard in game have been an issue for some time for TOR. Honestly with how polarizing the topic is, I don’t blame BioWare for being cautious about potentially implementing these features.

However, it should be noted that not having these in game features currently create several sources of ambiguity for TOR players that need to be addressed in some fashion. The main issues involved are:

Player Improvement

Not having combat logs and damage meters really puts a strain on how a player is able to improve their play in this game, and does not lend itself to making it easy to do so. Currently in order for a player to find which talents, gear, mods, rotation abilities work best, it comes down to tedious and time consuming tests and trial and error. This is not optimal.

Boss Enrage Timers

Now the game devs are really asking for player descent here and really shooting themselves in the foot, by creating raid boss mechanics with enrage timers, yet without the necessary raid tools needed to assess what is needed to reach those targets. The devs are not doing themselves any favors here to say the least. Designing bosses with enrage timers, yet not having in game damage meters, makes about as much sense as blindfolded sharpshooting. How can one possibly expect to be able to aim for and reach a desired target, when one is not able to even see the target or what is needed to hit that target. This is very poor design indeed.

Player (and game) Competitiveness

Currently there is TOR, WoW and Rift that are gamers’ main options for competitive gaming. Very soon there is going to be TERA and Guild Wars 2 as well. The MMO crowd is a very unforgiving bunch and will migrate to whatever game out there currently offers the best gameplay and desired challenge that drives them to play competitive team gaming. WoW’s Mists of Pandaria expansion is on the horizon as well and promises a substantial amount of finely tuned and challenging content, and in order to compete in this market, TOR must also offer a product of a similar standard.

Now it’s been argued by some that having combat logs can be somewhat unfair to players with not quite the skill of others. It can also however be argued that not having a damage meter can be just as unfair to gamers who really do play well and are not allowed admittance into groups based on preferred class or talent tree yet no numbers to offer to back up their skill in playing their desired class and spec.

What I think is really clearly needed here is, at the very least, a live in game meter that gauges one’s own DPS or HPS for people to know for themselves how well they are doing and how they are able to improve, with that player having the option to share that information with others if they so desire.

Please consider this post with a degree of care that will be fair to all. Thank you.

Um, Bioware is supposedly bringing in something just like you describe. Each person will be able to have what is called a combat log that can be parsed by programs like Advanced Combat Tracker. It's how Rift tracked DPS before the add on API was released. You will be able to uplink with your guild so that raid leaders will have access to a raid wide DPS chart. I really like the way this appears to be coming. A chance for those who like to champion the DPS meters for the guild raids and personal improvement to put up or shut up because they still won't be able to use it to kick people out of groups.

Edit: The only trick will be how many hoops will the player be willing to go thru to get it set up?

In Rift it was incredibly easy(and a great thing to peruse during server down times) as I was using it in the last couple of Beta events.

Um, Bioware is supposedly bringing in something just like you describe. Each person will be able to have what is called a combat log that can be parsed by programs like Advanced Combat Tracker. It's how Rift tracked DPS before the add on API was released. You will be able to uplink with your guild so that raid leaders will have access to a raid wide DPS chart. I really like the way this appears to be coming. A chance for those who like to champion the DPS meters for the guild raids and personal improvement to put up or shut up because they still won't be able to use it to kick people out of groups.

As I understand it, the combat logs coming in 1.2 require you to go to an out of game website to analyze said logs. What the OP is asking for is live damage meters like the recount addon for World of Warcraft. If you don't know what recount is: http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/recount go there. Also, the whole out of game combat log system sounds terribly inconvenient.

I know Rift's ACT parser and the Riftjunkies parser BOTH had an option to put an overlay on your ingame screen that would show you the numbers as they happened. I had both of them during the beta (went with ACT on live). Now, the really in depth stuff would require you to tab out to check it out(and not on a website, but the program running on your hard drive)

It was ALMOST as easy as downloading an addon in WoW and installing it manually. (ya know, before the curse client)

I know Rift's ACT parser and the Riftjunkies parser BOTH had an option to put an overlay on your ingame screen that would show you the numbers as they happened. I had both of them during the beta (went with ACT on live). Now, the really in depth stuff would require you to tab out to check it out(and not on a website, but the program running on your hard drive)

 

 

It was ALMOST as easy as downloading an addon in WoW and installing it manually. (ya know, before the curse client)

Ah, I thought Bioware was going to make use a worldoflogs type website and upload the files from the log and then analyze it. It makes about as much sense as not allowing damage meters or ingame combat logs. I love this game but Bioware's stance on Addons really just doesn't make sense to me.

Ah, I thought Bioware was going to make use a worldoflogs type website and upload the files from the log and then analyze it. It makes about as much sense as not allowing damage meters or ingame combat logs. I love this game but Bioware's stance on Addons really just doesn't make sense to me.

I don't propose to speak for them but knowing what they wanted to do with the game from the get-go(story focused) they appear to not be as interested in the whole WoW style MMOEPEENG and seem more interested in a lighter more fun focused MMORPG.

I don't propose to speak for them but knowing what they wanted to do with the game from the get-go(story focused) they appear to not be as interested in the whole WoW style MMOEPEENG and seem more interested in a lighter more fun focused MMORPG.

When used properly addons and combat logs are helpful tools. Being able to see how someone died or if they took entirely avoidable damage helps groups see what players are making mistakes. Which can then be explained to those players and help them become better. DPS meters when used probably motivate people to do better and push themselves to squeeze out every point of damage that they can. Addons like healbot and omen threat meter makes healing/tanking more manageable, allowing the developers to make more complex and engaging PvE encounters. Which (theoretically) makes everyone happy.

Back in the day...we didn't need fancy gadgets. We ran up and fought; lived or died.

I find the whole idea trivializes the experience.

Team A runs the zone and reports back that you need XXXX DPS to run it.

Team B builds the group based on this and runs it with no risk. Heck they can watch it ahead of time on YouTube.

How was that challenging in any way shape or form?

If everyone is finding them required (which is obviously not the case as people are beating the zones) then perhaps the design needs to be fixed so that a DM is not required

Quoting Dr. Ray Muzyka, Co-Founder and General Manager/CEO of BioWare and General Manager/Vice President of Electronic Arts Inc., from the game's very first press release: "In Star Wars: The Old Republic, we’re fusing BioWare’s heritage of critically-acclaimed storytelling with the amazing pedigree of Lucasfilm and LucasArts, and adding a brand-new fourth pillar to the equation – story." No ambiguity there, meaning no need for damage meters unless you're looking for one that measures emote damage.

In game live damage meters that only relay the information to the player, and not to others in the group, I'm not sure how this would compromise any of their said goal, not to mention hurt feelings... Unless someone has hurt feelings by their own numbers...

Back in the day...we didn't need fancy gadgets. We ran up and fought; lived or died.

 

I find the whole idea trivializes the experience.

 

Team A runs the zone and reports back that you need XXXX DPS to run it.

 

Team B builds the group based on this and runs it with no risk. Heck they can watch it ahead of time on YouTube.

 

How was that challenging in any way shape or form?

 

If everyone is finding them required (which is obviously not the case as people are beating the zones) then perhaps the design needs to be fixed so that a DM is not required

Back in the day there were no enrage timers either... BioWare has only added to this hot topic by added enrage timers to the bosses...

Honestly I'd love well designed boss fights that relied on in game boss emotes and queues as warning prompts, and not poorly designed bosses that end at a certain time based on a gimmicky enrage timer...

Anyone remember Naxx "dance"? That could go on for half an hour if one or two people could survive the dance...

Back in the day there were no enrage timers either... BioWare has only added to this hot topic by added enrage timers to the bosses...

No, developers didn't add a cheap boss to each raid zone as a "gearcheck" either, the bosses they put in the raid zones were meant to be there with their own styles and abilities. Yes, alot of them amounted to tank-n-spank, but the developers didn't give a care if someone in the raid was perhaps an undergeared app or even one of the main's alts who is helping out because someone else was out sick.

Also, stuff is still being done without the meters (enrage timers).

And you know what, if a boss is released to live and some end game guilds are wiping on it, they will eventually learn how to crack it and defeat the encounter. Oh, and what Bioware is doing with their plans for a combat log will in no way prevent a guild leader from obtaining the data and determining what needs to be done to defeat the encounter.

nope, we don't want anyone getting their feelings hurt now do we?

Well, except of course, healers. All healing data under the current combat log (except to the healer himself) can be easily and readily parsed and examined by everyone else in the operation, even if the healer doesn't want to share that information. So the basic premise of shielding others from hurt feelings is a complete sham from the get go.

Full disclosure: I'd prefer a real combat log with features akin to recount.

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As I understand it, the combat logs coming in 1.2 require you to go to an out of game website to analyze said logs. What the OP is asking for is live damage meters like the recount addon for World of Warcraft. If you don't know what recount is: http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/recount go there. Also, the whole out of game combat log system sounds terribly inconvenient.

this game already has enough world of warcraft features in it

dont want anymore,if you like world of warcrafts features so much.why dont you just go play it

this game already has enough world of warcraft features in it

 

dont want anymore,if you like world of warcrafts features so much.why dont you just go play it

It's in enough games not named world of warcraft(well maybe not THAT exact add on) so please don't try to play the WoW card.

this game already has enough world of warcraft features in it

 

dont want anymore,if you like world of warcrafts features so much.why don you just go play it

Being an ex full time raider in wow. I secretly hope they don't bring in dps meters. I had no problem keeping up my dps (usually topping the meter), however I always felt meters ruined the experience of the fight. Yes you do feel good when you pump out some big numbers, but I honestly got sick of looking at recount all the time. People were just soo obsessed with it too lol.

i dont do any high end raiding,

so i really dont care weather or not there will be a damage meter.

but i have noticed that it tends to to do more bad than good.

it often turns the good players into jerks.

and it makes the not-so-good-players, suck, trying to stay on top.