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Mass flooding of Jedi tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Roles > Tanking
Mass flooding of Jedi tanks

DarrkLore's Avatar


DarrkLore
12.30.2011 , 10:49 AM | #11
I think a lot of tanks in general are having trouble learning how to AoE tank in this game. AoE tanking is very big in this game, it's rare when you only have to fight one target alone. Now the Powertechs and Vanguards have some decent AoE abilities so they have a natural advantage with keeping hate, but the Jedi not so much. So they have to focus more on the individual targets instead of running in with Death from Above to pull initial threat on them all. It also doesn't help that some people who claim they can tank because they've read that they're class can tank yet they have most of their points put into a DPS tree.
ε╬╣!!!!╠▀▀{}▀(████████████████████████████████████████)

anedorivan's Avatar


anedorivan
12.30.2011 , 04:26 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by CgSquall View Post
As a level 50 Sith Juggernaut tank, I can tell you that there are a few issues at hand in this game regarding tanking.

First, the Jedi Guardian/Sith Juggernauts even at max level only have two AOE's, one if specced is on a 12 second cooldown and is a nice around your body AOE, the second is a conal in front of you for 4 meters which is difficult to use and doesn't do a lot of damage.

This leads to a lot of AOE threat problems on large packs, whereas the Powertech/Vanguard's have a lot of AOE tools at their disposal (I also have a level 30 Powertech) and have a much easier time with AOE threat.

The tradeoff between these two is the Powertech cannot even compare to my Juggernaut in it's ability to take sustained fire from a boss, especially throwing in the fact that the Juggernaut's cooldowns are much better at handling burst damage than the Powertech's. Over a very long sustained fight, it evens out, but over a 1-2 minute boss fight, the Juggernaut is very much ahead.

The other way around, the Powertech nearer to max levels can have trouble keeping SINGLE target threat off of good DPS long-term, whereas the Juggernaut has the best long term single target threat, as you will always have Rage/Focus once you are specced properly, but you can run into some serious heat/ammo issues during a long fight

The last point I will make, this game is VERY different in its tanking mechanics anyways. The tank SHOULD NOT try to hold every mob of every pull, they should really only be trying to hold the elites/champions and let the weaks do whatever they want, as they don't really hurt much, and the DPS can burn down the weaks within the first 5-10 seconds of a pull, which also gives you more time to get solid threat on the elites/champions. However you have to have intelligent DPS that listens to you to do this.

Speaking from my standpoint, any tank can tank well, but the Powertech/Vanguards are the only ones who can do the "traditional MMO tank" role where you hold every single mob on every single pull, but that isn't how this game was designed anyways.
Agreed and well put.
Quote: Originally Posted by TheBBP View Post
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artilleryshell's Avatar


artilleryshell
12.30.2011 , 06:04 PM | #13
welcome to mmorpgs.

Bad tanks are part of the territory.
Yes, its a dress, now shut up, sit down, and watch me tank this boss. - artilleryshell
You know we don't have eyes, so what's behind the veil?
A beard. - Atasama

Carnyge's Avatar


Carnyge
12.30.2011 , 06:59 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by artilleryshell View Post
welcome to mmorpgs.

Bad players are part of the territory.
There, I fixed it for you.

From my experiences, so far, I wouldn't say AOE skills are a must in the game. Yes, I tanked in the vanilla days of The Game That Shall Not Be Named with a warrior, so I am used to tab-targeting multi-tanking (it's the only way I like to tank). However, TOR loves to mix up the pulls with multiple difficulty level mobs.

As a Guardian, when I tank, I concentrate on the top two rated mobs. Honestly, blowing my tank resources on weak or standard mobs in a dungeon is a waste of those resources. Those mobs can be burned down so fast by the DPS, there is little reason to "tank" them. However, champion and above are a different story, I agree. Typically, I ask for the elites to die last, as that gives me the most time to build threat.

Ultimately, while a single tank or healer can blow a run, often times it is a combination of multiple roles who are either 1) inexperienced 2) unskilled or 3) impatient. Take your pick, they are all reasons for failure.

People will learn to play TOR flashpoints as they have been designed or they will leave, it's really a win-win for tanks who can get the job done.
SW:TOR, GW2, TERA... one of them has to succeed, right?

You owe it to yourself to try this game and make your own decision! My personal expectations were blown away!!

artilleryshell's Avatar


artilleryshell
12.30.2011 , 07:02 PM | #15
@ car. you did fix it for me, that was more what i meant to say.

I'm playing one of the unappreciated tanks, didnt mean to say that "oh jedi tanks suck" but people playing jedi tanks just might suck.
Yes, its a dress, now shut up, sit down, and watch me tank this boss. - artilleryshell
You know we don't have eyes, so what's behind the veil?
A beard. - Atasama

Idunhavaname's Avatar


Idunhavaname
12.30.2011 , 07:03 PM | #16
This is starting to annoy me too especially when people claim that they're DPS/Tank.
.

RIP orange pixel

Tachycardia's Avatar


Tachycardia
01.01.2012 , 01:45 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Spyde View Post
Its not just jedi tanks.

This is tanks in general.



Lower levels think.. Oh!,, hai! i have a tank stance, let me tank!

It just doenst work out that great if they do not have the items for it.
There is not low level tanking gear. It's all about skill and previous experience.

cioran's Avatar


cioran
01.01.2012 , 02:27 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Idunhavaname View Post
This is starting to annoy me too especially when people claim that they're DPS/Tank.
THIS

A lot of the tanks I've played with have been really good. I think the good/bad is the same as most other classes. I'm not great or anything, and I'm still learning to play my healer, I think a lot of tanks are finding the classes play differently than other similar MMOs, esp w/lack of AoEs (same problem healers are facing).

I have to roll a tank to get them better (playing a sage seer now), but I'm seeing really good tanks and a few awful ones. My only caveat? Medpacs people. Carry medpacs. Esp. sages.

I think DPS is a lot worse. The bad tanks flame out by the early 20s when you start doing FP's and heroics. I've gotten a few awful DPS guys though who are going after the boss instead of the adds, breaking CC, standing next to me while attracting aggro, etc even just recently and I'm in my mid 20s.

Most of the tanks learn quickly because they die if they ignore the healer. Ditto shadows. Heck, ditto me. I die, party wipes.

IMO, the worst DPSs in this game are sages in the balance or TK (and there are plenty of good people in these classes, again this might just be because IME, this is probably the most popular class) that often are used to healing themselves and are poor team players. They don't get that the tank needs healing. They also don't get their class (and like I said, athere are great players in these classes too, a guy in my guild dominates with one of them).

A balance is basically a shadow priest. You need to throw down DoTs
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darkov's Avatar


darkov
01.01.2012 , 05:35 PM | #19
From my experience as a Shadow tank, it just took me a little longer to get all the skills I needed to be an effective tank. But I'll happily go up against either a Vanguard or a Guardian at 50 for tanking any content.

My threat control is great, both single target and aoe, my mitigation is good, not quite as good as the others, but with my increased shield chance it isn't always noticeable.

I also don't need to rest between fights, usually by the time everything is dead myself and the rest of the group is ready for the next pull, which I move onto straight away. Some Flashpoints require a little slower pace than others, but no reason you shouldn't be chain pulling in most of them. The game is very easy.

Bustaperizm's Avatar


Bustaperizm
01.01.2012 , 11:23 PM | #20
Agree with the above poster of only tanking the hardest mobs as a guardian. When people learn the tanking, they'll realize guardian is the easy mode, reliable tank. Rage is constantly full
To keep threat ahead of the others.

Gaurdians bloom a little later than the others is all. I have a shadow too. I also like their method of tanking.