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Mass flooding of Jedi tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Mass flooding of Jedi tanks

Jgarlocke's Avatar


Jgarlocke
12.29.2011 , 01:16 AM | #1
I have done many flashpoints and heroics as a Vanguard Trooper and I have no issues tanking any of my groups. I'll admit I'm not the best but I'm not bad.

The main problem is I always find that everyone says they can tank since they are Jedi Guardian or Assassins , but I just don't see it when they run flashpoints or heroics. The healer is consistently healing and taking frequent brakes. They're just so eager to tank that they try to aggro too much and can't sustain it. This ends up with the classic aggro on the healer and the other DPS and then I have to take over the tanking job.

It's frustrating a bit since everyone says then can tanks but they don't do it correctly. This is the first MMO I have seen so many people not knowing what to do tanking-wise

I have no trouble off-tanking when that opportunity arises (If i'm not the main tank of course) but I feel like this shouldn't happen. I don't know if it's the quality of players on each server or the different classes. (FYI I did see some other vanguards not knowing how to tank so I'm not trying to be biased here).

All I want to know is that you see the same overabundance of Jedi Tanks/Sith Tanks who just can't do it properly. (i.e. they often die, can't hold aggro at all) and you have to take over?

***This applies to the Imperial Side of course. Just switch the classes***
Server: Thana Vesh
Class: Vanguard
Build: Shield Spec
Name: Baram

Kernunno's Avatar


Kernunno
12.29.2011 , 01:24 AM | #2
Well tbh; I can see why many tanks won't wait. I have noticed several times that if you don't pull the next group within 2 seconds one of the dps is going to get impatient and pull with all the annoying side effects of everyone dying. Combine that with the part where a lot of people seem to think that you are a tank even if you spec 31 points in a dps tree and you have a lot of frustrated healers.

It's a bit of a balancing act between minding your healer's recources and not giving the dps time to be stupid. It doesn't always work as planned. Generally I try to keep the group buisy to get the dps empty by chain pulling a few groups and then waiting so they have to recuperate. Playing this right saves a lot of frustration on all sides but can be somewhat intence play and doesn't leave alot of room for mistakes.
Heisenberg may have been here.

MiraBindo's Avatar


MiraBindo
12.29.2011 , 01:31 AM | #3
Seems much harder to hold agro as a jedi tank, at least at early levels. It just seems to me that troopers have a ton more AOE skills to hold everything (i have never played one, but i run with a vanguard tank alot)

My Guardian is still pretty low, but only has 1 aoe to grab agro, on a 15sec cooldown.

My Shadow isnt a tank spec but i have thought about it, would have better aoe agro because ive got a few AOEs i can use, but nowhere near the armor/mitigation of a trooper or knight.

I'm not a great tank but I've done it in other games, not sure what level you're at but i guess we can only hope that the different classes even out at higher levels. Either that or the Jedi tanks you ran with are bad and/or trying to tank in the dps tree
Kahlen

Jgarlocke's Avatar


Jgarlocke
12.29.2011 , 01:40 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by MiraBindo View Post

I'm not a great tank but I've done it in other games, not sure what level you're at but i guess we can only hope that the different classes even out at higher levels. Either that or the Jedi tanks you ran with are bad and/or trying to tank in the dps tree
I think you might be right with the DPS tree. I still have the old ability of checking their gear first time I see them and that doesn't help too haha

I should've mentioned, I'm a level 28 Vanguard.
Server: Thana Vesh
Class: Vanguard
Build: Shield Spec
Name: Baram

Jgarlocke's Avatar


Jgarlocke
12.29.2011 , 01:43 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Kernunno View Post
Well tbh; I can see why many tanks won't wait. I have noticed several times that if you don't pull the next group within 2 seconds one of the dps is going to get impatient and pull with all the annoying side effects of everyone dying. Combine that with the part where a lot of people seem to think that you are a tank even if you spec 31 points in a dps tree and you have a lot of frustrated healers.
You couldn't have been more clearer! I saw another post where the OP was saying to always look at your surrounding since you have to pull the aggro back to you. We don't have Omen on this to let us know!
Server: Thana Vesh
Class: Vanguard
Build: Shield Spec
Name: Baram

lykor's Avatar


lykor
12.29.2011 , 02:16 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Kernunno View Post
Well tbh; if you don't pull the next group within 2 seconds one of the dps is going to get impatient and pull with all the annoying side effects of everyone dying.
this.

zacharySW's Avatar


zacharySW
12.29.2011 , 06:07 AM | #7
This is the first MMO you have seen where players don't know how to play? Is this your first MMO?

It isn't just the tanks, my pet out DPSes most of the players. I feel more safe bringing my healing companion on heroics than I do with most of the "healers" I've run with.

You might want to consider the minor fact that the game is a week old, people are still learning to play. You also might want to consider that, as a tank playing DPS, you might not be putting out the DPS you should be, which makes fights a lot longer and requires the tank to take damage form mobs that should be dead.

Give people a couple of weeks to get used to their roles dude and be happy you get to off tank. Once things settle down there isn't a chance anyone is going to run two tanks when a DPS can double your output.

Spyde's Avatar


Spyde
12.29.2011 , 08:56 AM | #8
Its not just jedi tanks.

This is tanks in general.



Lower levels think.. Oh!,, hai! i have a tank stance, let me tank!

It just doenst work out that great if they do not have the items for it.

Trillenium's Avatar


Trillenium
12.29.2011 , 08:35 PM | #9
Actually what I am running into as a Jedi Guardian, is that my threat generation feels pretty slippery at best. I was tanking (attempting rather) Mandalorian Raiders tonight and the vanguard in our party was outdoing me on threat consistently. It was weird, cause the Vanguard was stripping me on threat, but was having a difficult time with incoming damage. I feel really like a noob.

I've tanked ever since BC in WoW on multiple classes. I'm willing to admit that I'm still getting used to this Jedi Guardian class and might just need to work at it a little further. But it really feels like this class has some difficulty keeping up on threat. I think I'm gonna throw together a post if it doesn't exist already about Guardian tanking and what I have learned so far. i would like to compare notes with other Jedi Guardians on things like ability usages and stats that I should be collecting on to help my threat gen.

CgSquall's Avatar


CgSquall
12.29.2011 , 10:43 PM | #10
As a level 50 Sith Juggernaut tank, I can tell you that there are a few issues at hand in this game regarding tanking.

First, the Jedi Guardian/Sith Juggernauts even at max level only have two AOE's, one if specced is on a 12 second cooldown and is a nice around your body AOE, the second is a conal in front of you for 4 meters which is difficult to use and doesn't do a lot of damage.

This leads to a lot of AOE threat problems on large packs, whereas the Powertech/Vanguard's have a lot of AOE tools at their disposal (I also have a level 30 Powertech) and have a much easier time with AOE threat.

The tradeoff between these two is the Powertech cannot even compare to my Juggernaut in it's ability to take sustained fire from a boss, especially throwing in the fact that the Juggernaut's cooldowns are much better at handling burst damage than the Powertech's. Over a very long sustained fight, it evens out, but over a 1-2 minute boss fight, the Juggernaut is very much ahead.

The other way around, the Powertech nearer to max levels can have trouble keeping SINGLE target threat off of good DPS long-term, whereas the Juggernaut has the best long term single target threat, as you will always have Rage/Focus once you are specced properly, but you can run into some serious heat/ammo issues during a long fight

The last point I will make, this game is VERY different in its tanking mechanics anyways. The tank SHOULD NOT try to hold every mob of every pull, they should really only be trying to hold the elites/champions and let the weaks do whatever they want, as they don't really hurt much, and the DPS can burn down the weaks within the first 5-10 seconds of a pull, which also gives you more time to get solid threat on the elites/champions. However you have to have intelligent DPS that listens to you to do this.

Speaking from my standpoint, any tank can tank well, but the Powertech/Vanguards are the only ones who can do the "traditional MMO tank" role where you hold every single mob on every single pull, but that isn't how this game was designed anyways.