In SWTOR the "Real" Game starts at level 1

I agree with the OP. The game does start at level 1.

As time goes on, more and more content will pumped in, and you will be able to say it starts at level 1 and never ends.

LOL, well I dont disagree that TOR does finally make leveling matter

I just cant help laughing at the new MMO players that try to proclaim WOW, the game that introduced pandering to the mememememe demographic and made leveling from 1 to max so mind numbingly easy and fast, is now being discribed as EXCRUCIATING and grind.

News flash, NO ONE with any pratical knowledge of MMORPGs uses the word grind and WOW togather.

WOW had no grind
RIFT had no grind
TOR has no grind

I really lose all hope for this genre going forth when I read stuff like this.

MMORPGs are NOT FPS where you log in at max level. They are suppose to have detailed and lenghty leveling curves and btw

Having played with many self proclaimed top guild, top raiders, top pvpers from WOW in Rift and TOR I can say with out any doubt that WOWs leveling curve should have been much longer so maybe you all had a clue about how to play your characters and what your different character skill sets do.

One of the main reasons pre WOW MMORPG titles had detailed leveling curves and NO RESPECs was so players actually mastered their classes.

I havent seen a player in TOR or RIFT that entered this genre in WOW or after that I call a masterful player. Not a single one. Oh Ive met many that call themselves masters and blah blah blah. But no one else does.

So yes, TOR story does make leveling matter more in that regard. Its pretty appearent that you missed the reason for leveling in other games and clearly do not understand the definition of GRIND.

Before you speak for all MMORPGs, perhaps you should, I dont know, learn about the genre maybe? Learn to use the definitions in their proper format and meaning and description?

Just a suggestion.

The ego and epeen are strong with this one.

Please, tell us more about how back in the old days you had to level characters uphill in the snow with no shoes on.

But it doesn't.. I have started 4 and played 4 and the results appear just the same. It really is only nominal changes. My Jedi Knight Dark played exactly the same quests as my Jedi Knight Light and I tried and tried to answer the complete opposite. OK I killed the robot instead of salvaging its memory core and I killed the bad guy instead of letting him go. But other than a dark requirement for the light saber [odd that] I stand at the exact same place as my light and my Jedi Sage and my Smuggler... all stacked at the exact same quest spot. I've seen these cinematics like four times now and I could quote them all... well not... I just go blah blah space bar.

And yet I have 12 at cap in WoW and guess what... the path may get a bit samey after say Tanaris but I can start in Dun Morogh or Teldrassil or Northshire and have a capital in... wait for it.. Ironforge, Stormwind, Darnassus, Shattrath, Dalaran and thats just Alliance for the first three [ not counting snotty nose central]. I can play quite distinct races and classes that are not all humanoid and I can have differing skills and crafts that make subtle but distinct differences to the journey through the game. Add to that the side quests for fishing, cooking and specific class quests and you can have a blast 1 to 85 irrespective of the post 85 content.

I would be very careful about generalising about the true king of MMOs comparing a very light weight game like SWToR. This game follows the exact same theme formula from step one which is choreographed through a very linear plot line. There is no freedom to adventure, explore and do your own thing. Trust me I tried. You have to play the game as it was story boarded and the limitation on gear, weapons, crafting is terribly unrewarding. The game certainly is giving players something new to endure... and that is general boredom within three months.

PS Star Wars is not succeeding. Sorry for that. Its more of a light snack before something better and more seriously challenging comes along. Well unless you just like watching games instead of actually playing them.

Nothing in the game world changes with any of the decisions outside of a particular quest or quest chain and there is no feeling of influence in any sense of the word. How do you delude yourselves to not see that?

As an Inquisitor, when I play through Nar Shadaa I have an entire cult dedicated to me and they serve NO purpose after I leave the planet. I become a Council member and NOBODY ever addresses me as such.

No MMO does this and it'd be impossible to accomplish, given that people want to play together.

I admit, I'm on my first toon on this game but I love the story. Yes, I realize it's linear but it feels like KOTOR2 (the original KOTOR2 never happened, believe me) with the occasional grouping required.

I'm not sure I would make a second republic toon, even if it's a different class. Same non-class quests (I assume, at least). But making a sith toon for a completely new story would be fun.

The main odd thing about this game is there is no "stormwind" where you go back to constantly to sell stuff, buy stuff, train at, etc. So you almost always feel like you are alone in the world. Which is both weird, nice, and sad (when you get a heroic) all at the same time.

And I love the on-rails space shooter. It's mindless entertainment when you first wake up. :P

Actually, WoW does do that through phasing. It's not at all impossible to accomplish. It has had some hiccups, and can interfere with group play - but you can see the effects of actions you've done. Zones look different after you've completed a quest, no matter how many times you go back (to be fair, Blizzard has also admitted they went overboard with phasing and made some areas too linear). And NPCs will address you differently based on your actions and reputation.

And WoW is not anywhere near the 'sandbox' other MMOs are.

But I didn't know that you could get a cult devoted to you as an Inquisitor! I'm going to have to play one.

Anyway, SWTOR's leveling is incredibly well done and very enjoyable. I'm having a lot of fun.

But it really is not particularly revolutionary or paradigm-changing. The companions and light-side/dark-side decisions add some twists, but don't fundamentally change the results of the process. If you choose light-side one NPC gives you a reward. If you choose dark-side, a different NPC gives you an award. The voice-acting and quest dialogue is very interactive, but also can be restrictive. I've found from other Bioware games (NWN and Dragon Age:Origins) that all the dialogue options get incredibly annoying the 2nd or 3rd time through, as you've already heard it all and just want to get through it.

And leveling is much, much more linear in SWTOR than it is even in WoW, which is a fairly linear game in it's own right. You're going to go through the same zones/planets and do many of the same quests on the same characters in a faction. And I've found that some of the quests are almost identical even for the different factions.

I actually played UO with the dude you are so easily dismissing and deriding.


This is why we can't have nice things anymore.

impossible to accomplish ... impossible to accomplish ... impossible to accomplish ...


In UO in 1998 I could buy and put a up a house anywhere there was open land, and turn it into a fort, a bunker, a stash house, or even a store or tavern. Once I set that house down I CHANGED THE WORLD ON WHICH I PLAYED UNTIL I STOPPED MAINTAINING IT.

Your definition of impossible and mine must be very different.

Yes, this whole "it's impossible" attitude is silly. If it can be thought of, it can be done in a virtual world. FREE YOUR MIND!

I also played UO and enjoyed many of the freedoms in that game.