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Slicing: Why it had to be nerfed.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Crew Skills
Slicing: Why it had to be nerfed.

Sakes's Avatar


Sakes
12.28.2011 , 01:53 PM | #1
There seems to be a lot of misinformation about Slicing and it's nerf. I know it's probably a waste of time but I figured I'd try to explain what is going on as best I can.

Let me start by explaining what slicing is and what it is for.

There are three types of trade skills in SWTOR. Crafting skills turn raw materials into products which players use themselves or sell for profit. Gathering skills gather materials from nodes. Mission skills run missions to recieve materials. Slicing is a gathering skill.

The confusion comes from the fact that slicers thought they should be making money off running missions with a gathering skill. This was never intended to be the case. Gathering skill missions are credit sinks. You can pay large amounts of credits in exchange for raw materials. If a Scavenger or Archeologist runs a mission, they recieve materials for far above market price. They don't rely on missions to make credits, they make their credits from gathering from nodes.

This is the intended design for Slicing as well. Bioware doesn't want players to be able to press a button, wait, and recieve money. They want Slicers to make their money by harvesting nodes. A lot of slicers have complained that nodes are too difficult to come by, but this is a result of so many people going Slicing in order to benefit from the missions. If everyone went Scavenging, then Scavengers would have the same problem, it isn't anything inherently wrong with Slicing, and it will balance itself out naturally as people shift away from it to new skills.

On the other hand, Mission skills do not have nodes, players need to run missions to recieve the products. So, Mission skills had to run missions, and gathering skills needed to gather nodes, but Slicing was the best of both worlds, having both nodes to gather and profitable missions. This clearly wasn't be design.

Next I want to explain why it had to be changed.

Slicing would have lead to rapid inflation, that is, everyone would have had far more credits then they knew what to do with. The cost of player made things would rapidly rise and become out of sync with training costs and other expenses. We would see player services and goods priced too high for those items to be purchased by anyone but established level 50s.

Why would this have happened? Quite simply the problem with slicing missions was there was no dimishing returns on additional players doing it. Nodes are a finite resource, only so many exist, and they only respawn so quickly. The server essentailly creates X amount of resources an hour and players can never get more then that amount. More players simply means splitting that same amount up more times.

Missions are entirely different. The game doesn't care who many missions are gone on, the costs and rewards are identical. There is no competition for resources, and no limit on how many can be created. For mission skills this is ok because of supply and demand. If I take Underworld trading on 1 character, then leveled up a second and also took UT, I wouldn't make 2x the profit because there is finite demand for those products. By increasing supply without increasing demand I'm simply lowering the value of what I produce. It's a built in balance. If everyone took UT, those products would plumet in value, turning a profit would become impossible and people would switch to different trade skills until it balanced itself back out.

This would never had happened in slicing because it produces raw credits. Having 2 slicers running missions was twice as much profit as having 1 slicer running missions. Having 8 was 8 times as much profit. Unlike with UT and flooding the market, there was no reason not to have every character you had with slicing.

So instead of the server creating X amount of product in nodes and splitting it between players, we had player directly creating credits with no limit or checks. It was an untenable situation.

If slicing was free credits then there would be no reason to do anything else for credits, especally considering inflation would mean the amount of credits recieved from doing dailies or grinding mobs would be undervalued. When everyone has more credits then they know what to do with it means no one bothers to do their dailies, to gather items, to grind mobs, to actually go out in the world and play the game. Maintaining a balance between credits entering the world and credits leaving the world is absolutely vital to the survival of any game, and leaving slicing as it was would have made that entirely impossible.

There are some who may feel there is a lack of credits entering the world now with Slicing nerfed. Even if this were the case, it would be better fixed by doing things like reducing training costs or increasing quest rewards, rather then returning slicing to the way it was. Also keep in mind there are far more credit sinks while leveling then there are at max level, and currently the vast majority of players are still leveling.

I'm sorry for those effected, but it had to be done. There will be a short term deflation, and there will be more competition for other nodes as people switch, but it had to be done. There was simply no way to maintain a healthy economy with the way Slicing was.

Yummymango's Avatar


Yummymango
12.28.2011 , 01:59 PM | #2
The fact is the BW has went too far. You are wrong in saying that Slicing is a 100% gathering professions. have you tried slicing. Not all the time people are ready to buy the junk that you get from low level missions.

But in actual gathering professions you can sell pretty much what you gather. Whether you gather from nodes or send you companions. We are actually losing money right now from slicing because the nerf has been huge.

Sakes's Avatar


Sakes
12.28.2011 , 02:05 PM | #3
You are losing money running missions. You were never intended to make money running missions. You make money harvesting nodes.

Balinoar's Avatar


Balinoar
12.28.2011 , 02:07 PM | #4
You make some valid points. However there won't be a healty economy in a game that doesn't require you to buy anything from the economy to level your character effectively.

I don't see how you can claim that you know how slicing was intended to be, you're not a dev, at least not from what I can see on your profile and therefore you are just voicing your opinion on how you feel slicing should have been and then comparing it too how it is now.

I can get all my gear from commendation vendors, and then the 1 skill im working on biochem I can take bio-analysis and diplomacy and then I have no reason to go buy anything else from the GTN. Also I have no reason to sell on it either, I can gather all the mats I need to make what I want by myself and then I can play the game all by myself.

Slicing was the only reason I went and bought stuff off the GTN, I had some extra money after buying my skills, and I decided that instead of using commendation badges on upgrades, I'll go see if I can get some better stuff player built on the GTN, which I did, but from here on out I am simply going to stick with commendation badges because I can't afford to level, do all my skilling , work on my crafting skill and then go spend money on the GTN.

Slicing provided extra money yes, and that extra money went into the market, sure there is the 1% who did nothing but save and make themselves a lump of credits but they are just that rare. I used slicing and I have 40k to my name now at level 33. My new skills cost 10k each and my repair bills are costing 1k per death pretty much.

Now that slicing is gone, the market will begin to decline because people who want to craft things will just gather all the mats themselves and make their own products. You're all looking at slicing from a greedy and entitled prespective! If I didn't take slicing and don't have 100k by 25 then the other people shouldn't have a ton of creds either!
None of this makes sense! And so you have to remember, when you're in this forum deliberatin' and conjugatin' the Emancipation Proclamation, does it make sense? No! Ladies and gentlemen of this supposed forum, it does not make sense! If Chewbacca lives on Endor, you must un-nerf! The defense rests.

Atheon's Avatar


Atheon
12.28.2011 , 02:07 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Sakes View Post
You are losing money running missions. You were never intended to make money running missions. You make money harvesting nodes.
If that was true then it would have been nerfed before launch
Atheon - Officer

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racsofp's Avatar


racsofp
12.28.2011 , 02:07 PM | #6
Excellent post.
* Illegitimate casual gamer scum
* Those who can, do...those who can't, call everyone else baddies and demand crutches
Quote: Originally Posted by Brasherr View Post
I can't figure out rotations, or spells to use/not use because there is no target dummy, and there is no Recount.

kuunkulta's Avatar


kuunkulta
12.28.2011 , 02:10 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by Sakes View Post
You are losing money running missions. You were never intended to make money running missions. You make money harvesting nodes.
Flawed statement. If it was never intended to make money by running missions, then why would they have made missions that return credit cases? They could have made it so that missions only reward augments and missions for other professions. But no, BW added possibility to send companion to get raw credits.

You have good points but this is not one of them.

My opinion is that maybe a nerf was needed, but it might have been a bit too steep one. But it could be BW's strategy; There is now more slicers than intended, so they make the missions unprofitable until the amount of slicers is balanced again, and then make slicing again profitable, but not so much as to again screw up the balance

Sakes's Avatar


Sakes
12.28.2011 , 02:11 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by Atheon View Post
If that was true then it would have been nerfed before launch
Supposing you are correct, then we could say you are no longer intended to profit off missions and are now intended to profit off nodes. Slightly different I admit but ultimately the same for our current situation.

Msbungle's Avatar


Msbungle
12.28.2011 , 02:11 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Sakes View Post
If a Scavenger or Archeologist runs a mission, they recieve materials for far above market price. They don't rely on missions to make credits, they make their credits from gathering from nodes.

A lot of slicers have complained that nodes are too difficult to come by, but this is a result of so many people going Slicing in order to benefit from the missions. If everyone went Scavenging, then Scavengers would have the same problem, it isn't anything inherently wrong with Slicing, and it will balance itself out naturally as people shift away from it to new skills.

Slicing would have lead to rapid inflation, that is, everyone would have had far more credits then they knew what to do with.
I wish I got credits by gathering from nodes in scavenging.

In any case, you forgot the "In my opinion" at the beginning of your post. As long as this is not an official BW post, it is all your opinion and speculation.

As for raising prices? What a load. I saw highly priced items on the DTN and then would see the same item for cheaper than you could get it off a vendor. All I know is that now that many people are dropping the skill due to it being nerfed, I can charge 10x's on the DTN for the missions and schematics I get from it. Rarity is what causes an increase in price. That and the person posting item!

ripster's Avatar


ripster
12.28.2011 , 02:12 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Yummymango View Post
The fact is the BW has went too far. You are wrong in saying that Slicing is a 100% gathering professions. have you tried slicing. Not all the time people are ready to buy the junk that you get from low level missions.

But in actual gathering professions you can sell pretty much what you gather. Whether you gather from nodes or send you companions. We are actually losing money right now from slicing because the nerf has been huge.
You may have an argument that Slicing is not worthwhile, but a broken profession that few or none take is better than one that everyone takes and leads to a ruined game. By the way, I don't think anyone who runs Scavenge missions is making a profit selling materials on the market so in that same sense it is losing money.