And really anyone else too, but despite have some different perspectives, Lhancelot and I both tested on PTS, and had some similar, some different perspectives on the game.

I made the bold prediction day of that this was a soft relaunch - and after playing it (at least through Onderon; taking on Mek Sha tonight), I feel like I was both kinda wrong, and actually kinda right...

I'll break it down thusly:

Story:

• I felt like with several more explorable areas (which I know are visited by the Dailies), Onderon was over too quickly. Each of those areas would have been big enough to have missions run through them. Onderon was an ok story, but over too quick - it needed more intrigue.
  
• Opening Crawl and scene were well done, save one part - it really doesn't make sense for my Bounty Hunter to be flying an imperial ship. Missed opportunity to have the player flying his class ship again.
  
• LOVE the respect and opportunity for Sith Inquisitors. This attention to past class stories needs to happen for all classes.
  

Content:

• We have various feelings about the gearing system, but I feel like its ok for now, and flows a lot more naturally when starting with a new character - those with established 70s will feel the pinch, but new rolls going forward will flow.
  
• Feels like not a ton of gear offered just playing the stories. Although what you do get during the Onderon levelling is ok.
  
• crafting tab is nice! 4 bays of my legacy cargo hold got freed up.
  
• It looks like Gearing is the new endgame, at least for now. Could work, but still needs work.
  

Engine:

• This is EASILY going to be one of the most overlooked parts of this expansion. The engine work has been EXTENSIVE.
  
• I play on a 3440x1440 Monitor on Ultra Settings. I can see if it gets missed by people who play on lower settings, but I noticed a marked improvement on Fleet, both in lighting and in performance.
  
• I also noticed the improved lighting throughout the game.
  
• The work that went into redoing the inventory, adding needed crafting tabs, redoing the preview windows, etc etc.... It 100% validates my assertions on what the developers were doing with the engine back in March.
  

So, is this a relaunch of sorts?

I think if they did what BioWare always did in the past, and ignore the engine and just put out content, it would have felt bigger, like Shadow of Revan. However, I can't argue with them taking a lot of that development and finally, FINALLY making the major improvements to the engine this game needed, not just for the players, but to make it easier for the developers to work with it. I need to stress that while there was always a team trying to make small improvements, no one really touched the engine proper since launch, until Keith got here.

And if we go by their stated goal with DYNs in the March 2019 article, they want to push out more content at a faster rate, and the engine changes they did will allow for this.

Anyone who has followed the history of the BioWare Hero Engine knows they bought the thing in pre-alpha and proceeded to Frankenstein it to the point where it could barely be called the hero engine anymore, and it made it a nightmare for the team to develop on, and also it couldn't be supported because it was changed so much. This is also likely why there were such major issues around expansions, or why a small change one place could break things elsewhere.

By contract, while there are still bugs this expansion, it isn't nearly as awful as past expansions.

I think they are working on the engine, and this was the first major change being pushed out.

Now - if they can deliver on their article in march and start pushing more story quicker, instead of the previous BioWare business model of "we don't care if people leave and then come back when there's something to do", I think this expansion is indicative of an upward swing, finally.

As for the relaunch business, I did see a bunch of hires when Keith got hired, and it is clear a LOT of work has been done. But it is also clear they don't have the bandwidth to make all these major engine changes AND deliver an expansion the size of Shadow of Revan (which ironically, in terms of planet size, they did - just not in terms of story length).

Which tells me while the game certainly isn't "underfunded" or "understaffed" in the sense of a game in maintenance mode, they still don't have the staff to fully pull off a major story arc in one expansion AND all the major engine changes they are doing.

However, one thing I would let people know - do you think they will keep making all these major engine changes?

Not likely, no. Always something to work on, but once they get all the major overhauls done, I would imagine then resources can be allocated elsewhere - which means that with the staff they have now, it IS possible to have a major expansion - once they get the major engine overhauls out of the way...

That's my take - somewhere in the middle on everything, but for those with a keen eye, a lot to be hopeful for for the future.

But then again, BioWare then has to deliver. Onslaught I think was a solid B that set the foundation for a lot of things. Lets see where it goes from here, and how often they can deliver it. Given this is usually the time (after they deal with the bugs), that the developers go into hibernation until February or even until late March in terms of player communication, I will be impressed if they are able to deliver some sort of story continuance in say, December as an early Christmas gift. Even if it is another Hearts and Minds type mission, and would be nice if it helps all the classes get back in touch with their class stories.

That last is pie in the sky, but it sure would send the message that things are now different at BioWare, in a good way.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

I liked it -- and was surprised it was this good --

well, we all can be wrong -- but I am glad I was

I just found my way to Onslaught last night, and haven't done enough to give it a fair assessment.

The only thing that irritates me a bit is how armor sets are color coded green, blue, etc. It's hard to sort and understand what you are looking at in your inventory, at least that's my take on it. I also think by adding little segments onto each gear icon picture's right side indicating something I don't know what, it clutters the little icon. I just think by trying to make it easier to sort gear they got the opposite.

I think the mats window is alright, I mean it gives us a way to organize crafting mats into one space designated for them, that's good!

As for PVP, my dps merc seems fine so far, somehow damage is higher though, seems I am doing quite a bit more overall damage. I had a match where I did over 7k DPS where normally I might have managed 4.2-4.4k DPS. Curious to see what my healer does, I will run him today if I got the time.

Anyway, I have not experienced anything gamebreaking, and I haven't experienced anything that amazed me. If it continues this path, I'd say it's a success.

I just found my way to Onslaught last night, and haven't done enough to give it a fair assessment.

 

The only thing that irritates me a bit is how armor sets are color coded green, blue, etc. It's hard to sort and understand what you are looking at in your inventory, at least that's my take on it. I also think by adding little segments onto each gear icon picture's right side indicating something I don't know what, it clutters the little icon. I just think by trying to make it easier to sort gear they got the opposite.

 

I think the mats window is alright, I mean it gives us a way to organize crafting mats into one space designated for them, that's good!

 

As for PVP, my dps merc seems fine so far, somehow damage is higher though, seems I am doing quite a bit more overall damage. I had a match where I did over 7k DPS where normally I might have managed 4.2-4.4k DPS. Curious to see what my healer does, I will run him today if I got the time.

 

Anyway, I have not experienced anything gamebreaking, and I haven't experienced anything that amazed me. If it continues this path, I'd say it's a success.

I would agree with your assessment as well. A lot of nitpicky things here and there that need refinement, but a solid start. Hence the B grade.

I’m very mixed on Onslaught. I’m not sure the best way to describe my expectations going in. On one hand, I was thoroughly unhappy with the direction of KOTFE/ET; on the other, I enjoyed the direction of Ossus, and I have such a deep love for this game. It’s crazy to think about the fact I’ve kind of grown up with this, and almost 8 years later I just want to see it thrive.

Anyway, if I had to assign an arbitrary grade, I’d give it a 6.5/10.

In terms of systems:

I’m honestly pretty happy. It’s really nice to actually get loot again. There’s just a sort of internal feeling of reward when you get a drop that an exp commendation just doesn’t account for! I like the UI changes mostly, but I think there could be improvements. I’m not fond of all my legacy gear suddenly becoming purple. It’s a lot harder to tell items apart now, and I don’t fully understand the purpose of the marker on the side of each icon showing that you have mods and an augment put in the piece. I guess I just don’t get why I need that information?

Gearing is more fun, the engine seems better, the game feels just a bit better.

In terms of planets:

I wasn’t as impressed with Onderon as I’d hoped. It looks pretty, but Iziz doesn’t feel like a city proper. That said, it definitely offers really nice spots for roleplay, so I can’t say I’m all that sad. (A huge point of praise I have for both areas is that there’s a LOT of room for RP.) I didn’t feel like I was going back to a place in KotOR 2, and Iziz in KotOR 2 somehow felt much larger. And outside the city, things were pretty, but I wasn’t big on the actual geography of the map.

Mek-she blew me away on the other hand. I was not expecting to like this planet at all — the scum and villainy sorts of places I don’t enjoy much — but it had a lot of charm and I just really loved the environment. Some spots do kill my PC, but I’ll pay the price.

In terms of story:

This is what really hurts the expansion for me. It feels like a pre-patch, a teaser for what’s about to come. In one way, I’ll say Onslaught’s a success: it left me wanting much more. But if BioWare can’t release content at a faster pace than in the past, that “wanting more” is quickly going to get sour. They’re planting great seeds, but they need to pay off.

I generally like Arn, and I really love Tau’s characterization. It’s a minor gripe, but I can’t stand how Arn just launches into his backstory when you meet him. The first bit was okay, explaining what happened to him. But the several minutes long explanation about his people and his planet, unprompted, just felt weird. I’d loved to have learned the lore, it’s just so awkwardly smushed in there. (A gripe I have for a lot of Onderon, too — stop the info dumps! There are better ways to build worlds!)

The penultimate flashpoint was alright. I liked the draw of the expansion, with time ticking and the battle closing in. And I liked the final confrontation. I didn’t like the fact that you seemingly abandon your companions and they magically get saved. It felt so weird that I didn’t even have the option to try and help them.

The highlight was definitely the epilogue, though. It’s probably just because I play a Jedi Knight, but I got visibly giddy when she popped up. I also really like the plot point they threw in. I wish they’d move on to new threats, but it’s compelling enough.

All in all, I like the direction of the game and I genuinely hope this is the start of something new and fresh. The new systems are positive and I enjoy the new characters. I’m much happier now than I was at the end of KOTFE or KOTET.

Edit:

The new bits of music I noticed were all nice too, except for one bit (related to Onderon, I think) that sounds like SNES music. It was weird.

Having the plot revolve around the the navies of both the Republic and the Empire while playing my Class Characters made me feel like I was playing both headcanons of mine at once, just like in Ossus. In one headcanon, my Consular and Knight are the Barsen'thor and Champion, respectively. In the other, they are pilots for Blue and Red Squadron, respectively. Ossus and Onslaught felt like these two headcanons were one and the same, making it not only feel like a Class story of sorts, but also a rather personal one as well.

Suffice to say, I am quite satisfied.

My only complaint is that the opening scene, at least for the Republic, was kind of lame. Imps were pathetic and the Republic/Alliance ships were OP, to put it simply.

The daily and weekly rewards for GSF beat the [censored] out of PvP. That's not a complaint, by the way. I much prefer GSF over ...whatever the heck PvP is supposed to be. I guess I should be glad to favor such a "niche" part of the game.

One thing I am curious about, weren't we supposed to be given another opportunity to "switch" sides? At what point in the expansion is that supposed to happen? Asking because I would like to know before taking my Warrior through the story; she does not like the Imperial leadership.

I realize that you thread was entitled and possibly intended for others … but here are a few points I'd like to throw in:

1. I do believe that this was a "soft reboot" … of sorts ! You can tell that just the art work alone is much better (IMO) … even some of the textures and polys were upgraded since PTS. (one area in particular that I had noticed and made mention of in forum) … So that was good. Always room for improvement … but I did appreciate the added efforts ! Two thumbs up for the art dept !

2. The story now has a solid foundation to work off of away from KotFE / ET . IMO it was a good transition. Although I would have appreciated a little more opportunity to interact with and maybe had a smoother transition in companions when they needed to be changed. There were a couple of places where the default companion seemed to be without transition .. but not too bad!

3. This new direction can be easily added to and I look forward to see how this grows from where we are at.

4. I'd love to see if any of the other "suggestions" (SH / class additions / PvP zones / companion(s) … etc ) might be something to be seriously considered.

5. Separate stories again: ??? not sure … I've only had the time to do one character... I plan on another later today ! BUT IMO... the foundation is definitely there to do more than what we've seen in a long time !! IMO that is a VERY good thing !

Over all …. good marks ! I'd go B+ grade … I would go higher. If you stop and think about where they were … what they had to change. There was a LOT of hard work put into this !

Good move on their part !

Now if they just get the kinks worked out of the armoring thing … !

Over all …. good marks ! I'd go B+ grade … I would go higher. If you stop and think about where they were … what they had to change. There was a LOT of hard work put into this !

 

 

Good move on their part !

 

Now if they just get the kinks worked out of the armoring thing … !

For sure. I don’t think a lot of people realize that **** stuff is hard! Whatever complaints I have, I feel confident saying that the devs are trying their best to make fun and engaging content.

Story wise I feel it was a good start. I enjoy the pub vs imp direction and

I will be peeved if I have to wait another year for the next "chapter". The story as it was felt very good - also very to be continued. I want continuation more than once a year, Musco.

The gearing system hasnt bugged me yet because I havent really partaken yet. A friend used the vendor to buy a belt and he did not actually receive said belt. This nearly put my friend over the edge. He has submitted a ticket and is awaiting a CS resolution. I implore you, Musco, to at the very least give him his frags back. Personally, I learned my lesson after taking 5 attempts to get a 252 lightsaber that resulted in my well documented fury at the ossus system after release (my also well documented fury pre-release was a philosophical objection).

I guess, I just have gotten to the point where I assume BW can't release anything without it being unbelievably buggy and ergo decided not to actually do anything important until I saw documentation of fixes. That is a rather sad reflection on the state of SWTOR, Mr Musco.

I had low expectations.

Now, I've only got 1 toon part way through Onderon thus far, but as of now Bioware have manged to aim lower than my already very low expectations.

I got the feeling there wasn't much in the way of actual content, and if people have finished it already it seems I was right. Playing through on an Operative so far and I see nothing that would hint at anything other than a generic story for everyone with one or two dialogue comments based on class.

The quest so far have been entirely underwhelming, boring might be a better descriptor.

Gearing: yeah I got some gear as a reward. Why was there are need to make what was already a dog's-dinner of a gearing process even worse?

Was it a relaunch?

Only the most deluded fan-boi ever would even dare consider claiming such. It is - so far - a less than mediocre, long-long-long-log-overdue expansion. Nothing more.

So far: 4/10.

All The Best

The only thing that irritates me a bit is how armor sets are color coded green, blue, etc. It's hard to sort and understand what you are looking at in your inventory, at least that's my take on it. I also think by adding little segments onto each gear icon picture's right side indicating something I don't know what, it clutters the little icon. I just think by trying to make it easier to sort gear they got the opposite.

Those little dots indicate when mods are slotted. You can test it with one of the 600 credit pieces of gear off of the adaptive gear vendor. Interesting addition, but I don't think it out weights some of the other design decisions.

I haven't played the story yet at all. I just logged in this morning after checking what others had to say (about any game breaking bugs). Pleasantly surprised that the update went fairly smoothly. I think you're right, if they can up the pace on content releases due to the work from earlier this year and last year then I think the game will be in a good place. I think people will get over the gearing system after they've worked with it, and figured out how to game it, a while. But BW has to deliver. If they can't then the DYN work was a waste of effort and they should have just focused on including more content with this update.

Unfortunately, I think they have a habit of reinventing the wheel and making drastic changes when small, incremental changes are what's called for (I'm looking specifically at the conquest changes and the massive dose of growth hormone given to credit costs in an ill designed attempt to introduce credit sinks). This clearly hasn't changed under Keith. Unless the culture changes this status quo will see the game shut down sooner rather than later, DYN and engine changes or not.

I had low expectations.

 

Now, I've only got 1 toon part way through Onderon thus far, but as of now Bioware have manged to aim lower than my already very low expectations.

 

I got the feeling there wasn't much in the way of actual content, and if people have finished it already it seems I was right. Playing through on an Operative so far and I see nothing that would hint at anything other than a generic story for everyone with one or two dialogue comments based on class.

 

The quest so far have been entirely underwhelming, boring might be a better descriptor.

 

Gearing: yeah I got some gear as a reward. Why was there are need to make what was already a dog's-dinner of a gearing process even worse?

 

 

Was it a relaunch?

Only the most deluded fan-boi ever would even dare consider claiming such. It is - so far - a less than mediocre, long-long-long-log-overdue expansion. Nothing more.

 

So far: 4/10.

 

All The Best

You were chomping at the bit to hate on the expansion well before release.

Hardly neutral, but hey, to each their own..

You were chomping at the bit to hate on the expansion well before release.

 

Hardly neutral, but hey, to each their own..

And you claimed it was a glorious re-launch, so where's your neutrality?

You claim you are neutral, you aren't; but you are keen to lambaste those who you deem to be partial.

Having played it for the last few hours a more rounded review:

Onderon is really nicely done in the main, although it is a shame there's invisible walls and fatigue zones for no real reason other than laziness.

The nerf to Companions has made any given content take 20% to 24% longer than before; an easy, but supremely dishonest, way to increase the "Time Played" metric. I'm guessing that they (Bioware) think it will force people to group up; it won't - people who don't want to group up... ...wait for it... DON'T WANT TO GROUP UP, and if forced to are just as likely to leave the game for good than bend the knee to Bioware's clumsy shepherding.

Quests are predictable as hell and lacking any real choice; why wasn't my turncoat Operative able to allow the Assassins to kill Petrych, rather than being forced to rescue him?

The new gearing is as awful as I expected. The whole thing is just a mess.

The steroid-hyped costs for swapping Mods in the field are a crass Credit Sink.

Crafting is all but ruined - genuinely see no scope for Crafting to be affordable or have any utility for most players.

But the final three things can be tweaked relatively easily - IF Bioware chose to do so - so there is some small glimmer of hope on the horizon.

Based on one play through so far I'd move from my original 4/10 to 5.5/10.

If Bioware learn the obvious lessons around Gearing, Credit Sinks, Forced Grouping and Crafting in time to stem the flow of deserting players then it might be brought round to 6.5/10 or even a 7/10; and that would make it better - in my opinion - than either KotFE or KotET.

Yeah, there is hope.

But we really shouldn't have to be hoping and praying that Bioware wake-up to their own inadequacies in order to save a patch from abject failure. We've given more than enough feedback about these inadequacies over the years - they should be carved in stone at the entrance to Bioware Austin by now.

Someone high up at Bioware, or EA, needs to take a stand and hire someone at Lead producer intelligent enough to not keep repeating the mistakes made by previous Lead Producers. Then the game may have a chance to reach the potential we all know it has.

All The Best

New areas are nice and the story is decent, though both are fairly limited in size and scope.

Most of the UI and base game updates and changes are positives, some need a bit of polish, but overall an improvement.

Gear grind is a net negative given players expected to mostly grind content created years ago. Additions (multiple sets, tacticals) also a net negative given costs and RNG. Entire system seems overly complicated for complication's sake.

Changes in tuning, companion strength, and bolster / level sync are a mixed bag - yes the content in many places was too easy, but world content is still easy, it just takes longer.

FPs are a net negative, especially for lowbies - I don't get how dying because the trash hits so hard it kills the lowbies before the group kills them is fun, but to each their own I suppose (I hate it, but I'm jaded and see no increase in actual difficulty, just blatant over tuning to pad time).

Crafting was made pointless outside mega conquest guild alt runners, and even then is a negative.

If this is supposed to be a soft relaunch or reboot - it fails.

If its just a chance to polish up a few things here and there and add a bit of new content, it is alright.

Verdict: Enjoyed it for what was provided (I had low expectations), but I will not be sticking around.

And you claimed it was a glorious re-launch, so where's your neutrality?

You claim you are neutral, you aren't; but you are keen to lambaste those who you deem to be partial.

 

 

Having played it for the last few hours a more rounded review:

 

Onderon is really nicely done in the main, although it is a shame there's invisible walls and fatigue zones for no real reason other than laziness.

 

The nerf to Companions has made any given content take 20% to 24% longer than before; an easy, but supremely dishonest, way to increase the "Time Played" metric. I'm guessing that they (Bioware) think it will force people to group up; it won't - people who don't want to group up... ...wait for it... DON'T WANT TO GROUP UP, and if forced to are just as likely to leave the game for good than bend the knee to Bioware's clumsy shepherding.

 

Quests are predictable as hell and lacking any real choice; why wasn't my turncoat Operative able to allow the Assassins to kill Petrych, rather than being forced to rescue him?

 

The new gearing is as awful as I expected. The whole thing is just a mess.

The steroid-hyped costs for swapping Mods in the field are a crass Credit Sink.

Crafting is all but ruined - genuinely see no scope for Crafting to be affordable or have any utility for most players.

But the final three things can be tweaked relatively easily - IF Bioware chose to do so - so there is some small glimmer of hope on the horizon.

 

Based on one play through so far I'd move from my original 4/10 to 5.5/10.

 

If Bioware learn the obvious lessons around Gearing, Credit Sinks, Forced Grouping and Crafting in time to stem the flow of deserting players then it might be brought round to 6.5/10 or even a 7/10; and that would make it better - in my opinion - than either KotFE or KotET.

 

Yeah, there is hope.

But we really shouldn't have to be hoping and praying that Bioware wake-up to their own inadequacies in order to save a patch from abject failure. We've given more than enough feedback about these inadequacies over the years - they should be carved in stone at the entrance to Bioware Austin by now.

 

Someone high up at Bioware, or EA, needs to take a stand and hire someone at Lead producer intelligent enough to not keep repeating the mistakes made by previous Lead Producers. Then the game may have a chance to reach the potential we all know it has.

 

All The Best

My neutrality was the fact that I could come back from that and admit what I did in this thread.

I have yet to ever see you back away from your initial take ever, which is almost always negative. In fact, when challenged, you usually double down.

Just saying.

My neutrality was the fact that I could come back from that and admit what I did in this thread.

 

I have yet to ever see you back away from your initial take ever, which is almost always negative. In fact, when challenged, you usually double down.

 

Just saying.

And yet I just revised my opinion from 4/10 upto 5.5/10 and admit it has potential to get to 7/10.

All of this in the very post you just quoted.

Which tells me you don't read what other posters write, you read what you think they wrote based on your biases towards them.

All The Best

There is no hope for this game. After 2 years of Galactic Command RNG and 1 year of Ossus we were somehow given a gearing system even worse than the previous two.

Alongside grinding the new in game currency "Tech Fragments" (formerly Unassembled Components) millions of credits are now needed just to purchase direct RNG gear boxes alongside sure-to-be extremely pricey augment kits and augments. That is in addition to the costly mod extraction gear prices.

There is no hope for this game. After 2 years of Galactic Command RNG and 1 year of Ossus we were somehow given a gearing system even worse than the previous two.

 

Alongside grinding the new in game currency "Tech Fragments" (formerly Unassembled Components) millions of credits are now needed just to purchase direct RNG gear boxes alongside sure-to-be extremely pricey augment kits and augments. That is in addition to the costly mod extraction gear prices.

And yet, the Reddit for SWTOR was mostly positive. Maybe you should just find a new game and let the rest of us enjoy it?

maybe the 'New content' wasn't aimed at peoples who've been playing since day 1 (Or a bit later like meh, 5 years now? or so?) but to the newwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww and futur peoples ?

It just a hunch, but how do you explain then all them blinkies like on the mail box ? Think we going blind and sénile or something ?

They are dressing it all pretty to WOW new comers. But its rotten in the inside lol

I had low expectations but boy I was wrong:

Positives :

- It launched almost bug free

- Story was enjoyable, liked the fact we are turning back to the roots

- New planets are nice, well designed

- Gearing is super easy (made bis with set bonuses on 1 class except amps in 2 days)

- Leveling up is 20 min max

Négatives:

- À money exploit (fixed quickly and people got banned)

- Story was a little short

- Some areas of the new planets can stress some old Pc's (Onderan Forest for example) (Not entirely negative thing)

- Crafting is really grindy but understandable. They

have to do crafting relative but hard. You won't be able craft your bis in a sitting but you are able to.

Overall I think its a good expansion. Couldn't test the class balance yet and that's the most important thing but it was better than live one on pts so Im optimistic.

Well done bioware

Is it a soft relaunch tough? No way

And yet, the Reddit for SWTOR was mostly positive. Maybe you should just find a new game and let the rest of us enjoy it?

Sounds like a plan. Have fun sport.

At the end of the day, the financials are what matters, aren't they?