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Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Ability Delay -- Character Responsiveness (This will make or break SW:TOR)
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

veevito's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:08 PM | #811
Quote: Originally Posted by lenonk View Post
It's not just animations exceeding the GCD. In the Charged Burst example, it's a 3 (2?) second channeled ability. While channeling, your character is kneeling and your blaster starts glowing orange. At the end of the channel, you stand up and start shooting for like 1.5 seconds, and you can't do anything else in the mean time. So, essentially, that makes Charged Burst a 4.5 to 5 second ability, which is silly. If they want it to be a 5 second ability, the make the cast time 5 seconds and extend the channeling. Otherwise, make sure the entire damn animation fits within the 3 seconds, even if the damage isn't done until after the entire cast. Or, 1.5 seconds of "charging", then a quick 1.5 second burst if firing which can be interrupted would be fine too. As I said earlier, there are multiple way s to fix it, but it has to be fixed per ability, and that's time consuming.

Still, it's the same principle, and yeah, it's a huge facepalm, and as I stated earlier when I got into this thread, there's no chance Bioware won't find a way to fix it.

The speeder thing? That's a minor annoyance. I couldn't care less if they never "fixed" that.
Thanks for providing a detailed example of abilities. That's really what's needed for specificity.

I tried it out on my smuggler just now.

I dismissed my companion and got within close range of a mob. I put up my cover shield and launched Charged Burst. You are correct that she didn't fire until the cast bar was finished, however immediately after the cast bar finished I hit my Quickshot ability to see if it would interrupt it.

It immediately interrupted the CB animation and fired off QS. You can tell because a full length charged burst is noticeable.

So, what you describe is not affecting me. However, it is affecting others as this thread indicates.

But, the fact remains that you cannot (not you specifically) imply that this is affecting everyone.

It must be one heck of a bug if what you described is true for you, but not for me.
How shall I ever understand this world? There is nothing on which it is so hard as poverty, and yet, there is nothing it condemns with such severity as the pursuit of wealth.


soujirop's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:09 PM | #812
I don't know if I already posted here, anyway.

I agree with the OP, the game just has a BAD optimization. I mean, I run skyrim at maximum! But SWtor at mid graphics goes horrible.

But maybe it's lag? I don't know.

Xcore's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:11 PM | #813
Original Poster: Thoughts and Reflections

This one is for me:

After hundreds and hundreds of pages, 2,500+ responses and 100,000+ views, I feel the need to gather my thoughts into one post. I believe this issue to be integral, crucial not just for SW:TOR but for the MMO Genre as a whole, I believe we may be sitting on the most well defined, naturally evolved understanding of this subject in one place. This is something special… and I thank all of you very much.

This has gotten bigger than SW:TOR for me now, I am passionately trying to raise this issue and awareness with Bioware because I believe in SW:TOR and I want to believe in Bioware. However, I hope that this goes beyond SW:TOR and Bioware and future developments take this subject into deep consideration so that we may finally, finally get away from WoW.

Believe it or not, I have undertaken the task of saving “every” single post from my OP all the way until the bitter end of this discussion to my computer in the hopes to save this collective, evolved and analysed “understanding and comprehension” of this enigmatic phenomenon that keeps WoW in its own league and Blizzard laughing at all these other companies, trying to emulate but never really understanding. I think the importance is not only on the answer or solution to the problem but rather, how we’ve come to understand the problem in the first place. I maintain, anyone can learn a lot from re-reading the entire thread. The words of the many posts analysing this certain, undefinable characteristic, that none can quite put their finger on is absolutely crucial to making better MMOs.

This post is on page “whatever” (I don’t even know yet until its posted!) and it may get lost to the newcomers posting at the end of the line but nonetheless, it is important first and foremost to me as a gamer (more specifically MMOer), customer of a certain product and generally passionate realist who simply wants to raise awareness for a better, more “responsive” future

Thank You all for the stimulating discussions, the support and the awareness you have brought to this topic.

This one is for YOU:

The one who has been with this topic fervently since first stumbling upon it, perhaps on Page 2 or Page 102. You, the one who feels as though “finally” the finger has been put on what until now was only a vague feeling of discomfort. You, the one who loves this genre, for your own reasons of competition and measuring yourself amongst hundreds and thousands of others around the world. You, the one who enjoys nothing more than the co-operative challenge of solving the dynamic puzzles in PvE content through teamwork, co-ordination, communication and dedication.

You the one who understands this uncomfortable feeling of not having complete control of all actions of your Avatar at all times. You, the one who does not accept mediocrity in Combat Mechanics and Character Responsiveness. The feeling of disconnected “sluggishness” that you perceive in every other MMO with the exception of the one you are trying to get away from!

All I can say to you is, don’t sit back, don’t give up… this form of entertainment (The MMO) is amazing and the evolution of it is important as well as “worth it”. Start here, and take this further, how far? However far you can or want. In-Game tickets, detailed explanations… keep analysing, understanding and research is the most important part and then share it with the developer of whichever game you’re going after or the community itself as we have done here.

A great example: by Tinkersw <--- <3

Do this until finally “every” MMO developer starts with the foundation of “Responsive Combat” and moves on from there. Whatever you do, keep on fighting this cause…. because “you are right” and this is not an opinion or subjectivity… it is an objective, intelligent fact.

Lastly, thank you for participating and supporting the furthering of this difficult topic.

This one is for YOU:

The one who is not quite sure what the fuss is all about, the one who is baffled by the piping up of this obvious but seemingly vocal minority. You, the one who is enamoured with SW:TOR since you got to log on for the first time after all this wait! Now, perhaps in your lvl20s-30s, you happily cruise through the worlds, the missions and flashpoints, loving every minute you spend in this universe.

I feel for you, you go about your business of enjoying and having fun and you will never truly know what “could be” if this topic were addressed. I truly mean it when I say, “I hope SW:TOR is and will continue to bring you joy for years”.

However, I must add that I can only ask of you to be objective and truly divorce yourself from your love of SW:TOR and Bioware as well as your hatred for WoW and Blizzard and re-analyze this topic with the utmost critical thinking that you can muster.

There is something wrong here and everyone claiming it, these people piping up their concerns and attempting to raise this awareness are doing it for you and your benefit because the truth is that you will only benefit. It is absolutely ok to disagree with this statement. I just hope truly that one day, perhaps years from now at some other game somewhere you will realize what is being discussed here today and see all of this from a different perspective. At that point (if it comes), all of this will have been worth it, you too will be demanding more, demanding better connection between yourself and your Avatar.

Lastly, I would like you to at the very least, take serious the gravity of the topic. It is something that has eluded projects and companies that have invested hundreds of millions of dollars. It is the reason for failures of magnitudes hard to imagine. This is not easy to define, comprehend or discuss and it is ok for you to not be completely in tune with those yelling around you. I’d just like you to give it a try objectively, and don’t get discouraged if it doesn’t click right away.

This one is for YOU:

The one who is fervently and passionately opposed to the notion that there is any disconnect or unresponsive feeling at all! You, the one who comes into the discussion claiming to fix it by setting the “Queue Timer to 0.0”. You, the one who believes that this unresponsive gameplay design is actually a FEATURE of the game itself! Believing it to be a stance by Bioware to prevent “Button-Mashing” or “Bunny-Hopping” and exploiting! You, the one who believes that the unresponsive behavior of animations overriding UI feedback is a positive and a good thing! You, the one who claims to “adapt” to obvious gameplay deficiencies for fear of betraying your loyalty instead of showing your true passion by making said game better (objectively) and more successful for all involved.

To you dear sir/madam, I have nothing nice to say. With your actions, blinded by your support for a Game and Company and/or hatred for another, you are accomplishing nothing but the downfall of what you “believe” you love so dearly. Furthermore, you are impeding the betterment of the Genre as a whole, you are impeding the evolution of understanding, learning what makes a “better” game.

Lastly, you are the reason (if continuing), the real reason that WoW and Blizzard will reign supreme for as long as they please. You likely waited for years for SW:TOR yourself, only to be unable to see the forest for the trees.

The only hope I have is for you to snap out of it for lack of a better term, to lower your defenses as no-one is truly attacking you at all. If this is possible, then we would all only benefit and gain from having you and together we could overcome the stagnation currently in this Genre.

This one is for YOU: Bioware – Electronic Arts – LucasArts

This thread and more specifically this post is for me to large degree, freeing my thoughts and progression of thoughts over the past 2500+ replies. However, I “know” that this has not escaped you. I know that your eyes are scanning these very lines, right this moment.

Nothing but passion for SW:TOR has evoked my OP as well as this post. I still believe in you and that your hearts are in the right place, even without any acknowledgement I still want to believe. I know this is not an easy predicament for you, I can imagine how much is riding on this entire project for you.

What you need to know, is that every single person who has posted so very passionately in this very long and elaborate thread is behind you and still does believe in you. No-one wants to go back to WoW. However, your continued silence betrays this belief, trust and hope with each passing hour. I do recognize your Q&A response earlier. However, it would be very sensible to simply drop a line in this thread, a simiple -- "Hey, we're here... carry on". No matter what meetings you’ve had in regards to this thread and topic, do not miscalculate on this subject – I only hope that you have the wisdom to realize the gravity.

All the story you have laboured so hard over, all the animations that look so amazing, the musical score and SFX of top quality, the game systems and mechanics that make SW:TOR unique will all be undone by the Gameplay Responsiveness, that 0.5 seconds will undo 10,000+ hours of everything else. Most people will simply leave never being able to put their finger on why “it just felt clunky”…

I neither blame you nor spite you, in fact I truly hope that “if anything” at all, you can see and feel the passionate sincerity with which I and everyone supporting this thread/topic is attempting to help you deliver the BEST MMO of ALL Time.

Very lastly, I will mention to you and everyone that I have gone the next step of trying to “help” by contacting Bioware Austin via phone (long distance from Toronto Canada) only to find an automated response and an answering machine. However, I have left my concern, I have pointed you towards this thread and I have left my contact information in case you would extend the offer for more detailed dialogue and clarification/brainstorming and analysis.

This is all from me,

Thank YOU for reading and apologies for the lack of tl;dr…

Khoranth's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:11 PM | #814
Quote: Originally Posted by stuw View Post
There hasn't been a single issue that I've read on these forums that were not brought up during beta in any phase.

Here is how you get it though... 2011 income statement. Release this game early for an injection of money before the year end. Short term, you'd be dumb not to release. Long term, you're gambling on how well the developers can handle releasing an unfinished game.
So you are blaming EA for this?

Lmaonade's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:13 PM | #815
Quote: Originally Posted by samdbtto View Post
Its got to the point where i care more about the real results this thread will achieve (if any) than actually playing the game. I start playing the game and think, what if this isn't fixed, am I wasting my time? I sincerely hope that combat is smoothed out and this game is mega successful.

TheGamble's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:13 PM | #816
I rarely log in to comment on threads. But this is a huge problem for me. I hope this will be adjusted as it takes me out of the game. Both pvp and pve look and feel clunky,

spezzlk's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:23 PM | #817
I totally support the OP.
For me as a die hard pvpler its really important.

Olzmo's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:26 PM | #818
Quote: Originally Posted by TheGamble View Post
I rarely log in to comment on threads. But this is a huge problem for me. I hope this will be adjusted as it takes me out of the game. Both pvp and pve look and feel clunky,
You have your opinions, but what do you mean by "looks clunky"? I think it's pretty reasonable to say that this game absolutely shines in the animation department, to an extent of hampering the gameplay.

veevito's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:32 PM | #819

I have but one question for you regarding my post above yours and the one it is replying to. Do you think that the situation described in the post i was replying to is an accurate description of the problem? If not, then ok, that illustrates the mixed comments here.

If so, how do you account for my findings versus his/her findings? Especially considering your stance that it is a game wide problem that affects everyone.

As a side note, in my example (since I can indeed interrupt charged burst after the timer expires) it boils down to making a decision as to whether I want the damage from a full CB animation or whether I want to sacrifice a portion of it to another ability that may be more effective at the time.

How shall I ever understand this world? There is nothing on which it is so hard as poverty, and yet, there is nothing it condemns with such severity as the pursuit of wealth.


Larutha's Avatar

12.28.2011 , 06:34 PM | #820
Terrible FPS in Warzones is killing the game for me now too, im fine in pve but as soon as i get in warzones its terrible and the responsiveness of my character is so poor its starting to make the game unplayable. When casting a heal it takes like 1 sec b4 it starts casting and then about 1 sec after the cast till it lands and if you move anytime in that 1 sec it wont land, so a 1.4sec heal turns into a 3.5+ sec heal. Its not just heals either, its everything but its heals where you notice it most.

I exclusively play PvP and if this isnt addressed soon then i know for sure i will not be subbing.

P.S. Customer service(its an insult to call it such) is absolutely shocking.
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