It really smooths the faction balance and let you team up with rivals and become companions. It's cool. Please use in future endeavors. What we need now is a just a tiny approach regarding MATCHMAKING.

 

It is out of question that one team has a couple of healers, while the other team has none. Solving this should be a quick task, with a very very very very......very high impact on pvp performance.

Edited May 12, 2018 by Neetroseven

Absolutly true.

+1

And in case the devs are lazy, algorithm [No effect on queue times whatsoever]

1. Pick 16 players from the top of the PVP queue and pick a map (That - they already do. So it is easy to see the population is no factor. The matchmaking is done within the selected 16, not from the whole queue. The selection is kept as simple as before).

2. Assign healers one by one to each group, one goes to group A, next goes B, 3rd goes A and so on. Prioritize healer assignment according to gear rating.

3. Assign tanks to each group one by one, starting this time with the group B [that means that if there is an odd number of healers, the 1st group to get a tank (therefore the group which can possibly get more tanks) is the group which has 1 less healer - B. In case of an even number, it is just so that the gear advantage will not be solely possessed by one group]

4. Assign DPS to the groups one by one, prioritized by gear (or alternatively burstiness, M/R, defensives, stealth or whatever makes a DPS spec better than another DPS spec), starting with the group which has less overall healers+tanks, and in case there is an even number, starting with the group with the currently lower gear average.

 

The marked words are just an idea and can be replaced by "class imparity considerations" (don't put all 3 ops in the same huttball side ), "average objective score", or whatever. Or even for starters don't implement intra-role matchmaking at all. The role matchmaking is more than half the way to guaranteed balance.

It really smooths the faction balance and let you team up with rivals and become companions. It's cool. Please use in future endeavors. What we need now is a just a tiny approach regarding MATCHMAKING.

 

It is out of question that one team has a couple of healers, while the other team has none. Solving this should be a quick task, with a very very very very......very high impact on pvp performance.

 

They also need to make all pvp maps cross faction.

+1

And in case the devs are lazy, algorithm [No effect on queue times whatsoever]

 

: Originally Posted by Rafiknoll View Post

1. Pick 16 players from the top of the PVP queue and pick a map (That - they already do. So it is easy to see the population is no factor. The matchmaking is done within the selected 16, not from the whole queue. The selection is kept as simple as before).

2. Assign healers one by one to each group, one goes to group A, next goes B, 3rd goes A and so on. Prioritize healer assignment according to gear rating.

3. Assign tanks to each group one by one, starting this time with the group B [that means that if there is an odd number of healers, the 1st group to get a tank (therefore the group which can possibly get more tanks) is the group which has 1 less healer - B. In case of an even number, it is just so that the gear advantage will not be solely possessed by one group]

4. Assign DPS to the groups one by one, prioritized by gear (or alternatively burstiness, M/R, defensives, stealth or whatever makes a DPS spec better than another DPS spec), starting with the group which has less overall healers+tanks, and in case there is an even number, starting with the group with the currently lower gear average.

 

The marked words are just an idea and can be replaced by "class imparity considerations" (don't put all 3 ops in the same huttball side ), "average objective score", or whatever. Or even for starters don't implement intra-role matchmaking at all. The role matchmaking is more than half the way to guaranteed balance.

 

How do they do that with premades in the queue?

Edited May 16, 2018 by TrixxieTriss

How do they do that with premades in the queue?

 

Excellent question (and sorry for the delayed reply). They either:

 

1. Separate premades from solo queuers entirely.

2. Rework premade into "assurance to be in the same MATCH, but not necessarily the same SIDE", and enact matchmaking from within the premade.

3. They allow the premade in the match if and only if it is possible to sort the matchmaking around them. In case it is impossible, the matchmaking skips the premade and keeps picking people from the solo queuers to finish making the match. Hopefully, the premade will have better luck with the next guys (and if they pick 2 healers and 2 tanks in order to be morons, they are rightfully screwed)

Excellent question (and sorry for the delayed reply). They either:

 

1. Separate premades from solo queuers entirely.

2. Rework premade into "assurance to be in the same MATCH, but not necessarily the same SIDE", and enact matchmaking from within the premade.

3. They allow the premade in the match if and only if it is possible to sort the matchmaking around them. In case it is impossible, the matchmaking skips the premade and keeps picking people from the solo queuers to finish making the match. Hopefully, the premade will have better luck with the next guys (and if they pick 2 healers and 2 tanks in order to be morons, they are rightfully screwed)

 

Those would probably work. But there will be lots of QQ from the premade people about slower pops or being split up or not being albe to easily rofl stomp pugs

Another idea

4. They reduce the size of premades to 2.

Those would probably work. But there will be lots of QQ from the premade people about slower pops or being split up or not being albe to easily rofl stomp pugs

Another idea

4. They reduce the size of premades to 2.

 

The marked words are a bonus outcome in might point of view

Love the number 4 idea too. Not sure how high would it rate in the QQ list though. Some people would literally die if they can't go premade as 4x concealment kill farmers or huttball rofl stomps

The marked words are a bonus outcome in might point of view

Love the number 4 idea too. Not sure how high would it rate in the QQ list though. Some people would literally die if they can't go premade as 4x concealment kill farmers or huttball rofl stomps

 

I like number 4 myself!

 

There would be some backlash from it I'd imagine.

On the one hand you can't blame people for wanting to play with friends and I get that reasoning, on the other hand limiting a premade to just 2 members would insure [unless I'm not considering something] no more guaranteed Trinities. I am a bit torn on the issue because I can't help but consider the effects on guildmates and friends. I'm not in a guild myself but I have been in the past and I can understand the draw of wanting to play with the people you value and enjoy playing with, it is an MMO after all.

 

Than of course, I can't deny the effects of premades vs. pug groups. That's a very legitimate consideration as well.

 

 

That proposal is not gonna endear you to pubs Trixxie, watch your back, they might put a bounty out on you when they hear about 'Order # 4'! Than again, they don't know the power of the Darkside, so who cares what they think =p.

Whichever BioWare choose, they would never give any of us credit for it. We are safe and they get all the praise and hate. I mean, if we deserve hate for ruining premades we might as well demand rewards for coming up with the matchmaking algorithm, arguing with disbelievers and refining it to perfection with legitimate questions and solutions

I like number 4 myself!

 

There would be some backlash from it I'd imagine.

On the one hand you can't blame people for wanting to play with friends and I get that reasoning, on the other hand limiting a premade to just 2 members would insure [unless I'm not considering something] no more guaranteed Trinities. I am a bit torn on the issue because I can't help but consider the effects on guildmates and friends. I'm not in a guild myself but I have been in the past and I can understand the draw of wanting to play with the people you value and enjoy playing with, it is an MMO after all.

 

Than of course, I can't deny the effects of premades vs. pug groups. That's a very legitimate consideration as well.

 

 

That proposal is not gonna endear you to pubs Trixxie, watch your back, they might put a bounty out on you when they hear about 'Order # 4'! Than again, they don't know the power of the Darkside, so who cares what they think =p.

 

Even in Snave’ interview I linked again the other day, he says how premades are detrimental to our pug teams. I respect Snave’s opinions because he’s played since launch, is a great pvper and plays with great pvpers. If he and other good players could see that premades are an issue 2 years ago, there really is no reason to expect the problem has changed in two years. I would argue that it’s even more detrimental now because we have much less players.

 

People can still play with friends in a 2 man premade, they might just be on the other team. If they’re all in voice chat together, it won’t matter because in my experience, premades of friends rarely use voice chat for tactics. When I used to do it with my pvp guildies, we had the best matches when we had friends on the other team because we could laugh and muck around together.

Even in Snave’ interview I linked again the other day, he says how premades are detrimental to our pug teams. I respect Snave’s opinions because he’s played since launch, is a great pvper and plays with great pvpers. If he and other good players could see that premades are an issue 2 years ago, there really is no reason to expect the problem has changed in two years. I would argue that it’s even more detrimental now because we have much less players.

 

People can still play with friends in a 2 man premade, they might just be on the other team. If they’re all in voice chat together, it won’t matter because in my experience, premades of friends rarely use voice chat for tactics. When I used to do it with my pvp guildies, we had the best matches when we had friends on the other team because we could laugh and muck around together.

I don't like the idea of halving the size of premades. Enacting some role limitations (say one tank, one healer maximum) would be better. Then again, my premade groups already do that and go with 3 DPS and a healer or, substantially more rarely, with full trinity.

The idea of limiting premades to 2 players was originally number 4, and as much as I like it I also would love to hear opinions about the other 3 ideas.

 

I don't personally have a preference, and if one of the ideas doesn't have as great an opposition it can be considered seriously in future patches.

 

P.S: For the inevitable "if you are against premades you are 'mad cus bad', the existence of several solo carriers who stomp pugs nearly on their own but still occasionally get stomped by coordinated premades proves that sometimes it is actually 'premade cus bad'.

 

P.S.S For the inevitable angry responses of these individuals who go premades and think I am talking specifically about them due to a high level of self-centeredness, I will emphasize I said "sometimes" not "always".

Matchmaking should refer not only to perfect parity composition (same number of healers/tanks/dps both sides) but to ilvl of players (even to lock them with the gear they were queing so they do not change it in warzone with better one and trick the sistem). And one more thing: this should also go for the equal number inside the WZ, so we do not see 4v8 setups, no matter the side you choose to fight for. Read this DEVZ and have awerness. Cheers. Edited May 30, 2018 by Gingishan

Matchmaking should refer not only to perfect parity composition (same number of healers/tanks/dps both sides) but to ilvl of players (even to lock them with the gear they were queing so they do not change it in warzone with better one and trick the sistem). And one more thing: this should also go for the equal number inside the WZ, so we do not see 4v8 setups, no matter the side you choose to fight for. Read this DEVZ and have awerness. Cheers.

 

The intra-role matchmaking is a good idea but ilvl measurement is flawed because there are trolls with good gear, kill farmers with good gear, amazing players and sap-captors with low gear, and worse of all: idiots with good but wrong gear (I have seen a few tank geared DPS, the horror...). Also, that would put the 236 geared with better players against the 242 geared with worse players, even though bolster makes them almost similarly powerful. Let me suggest an alternative: win/loss counter.

 

The win/loss counter can be introduced in any patch, it starts at zero, and gain a +1 for each win and -1 for each loss. The intra-role matchmaking will attempt to have the win/loss sum of either teams as close as possible to equal (without ruining the role distribution). That means that if you lose a lot (for being lucky or for being skilled) you get more and more statistical winners in your team versus more statistical losers in the other team, and then you either win (loss streak broken) or lose (increase the win/loss gap even more which means you will get even better players versus worse players next time, and then you will win). Of course, it cuts both ways (if you win a lot you get more statistical losers with you...), but it means eventually that infinite streaks of wins or losses are quite impossible, and control over what happens in the non-extreme-point games is mostly up to your skill and contribution to the game.

 

As for the 4v8 problem, there is not much the devs can do about it. The matchmaking happens before you see the pop, in other words, the group you would be in is decided already when you are standing on the fleet, not when you load into the instance (in general, when loading into an instance your position is already set the moment you disappeared from your previous instance. They will have to rework the very core of the engine to change that one). So if your supposed healer will decline the pop when he gets it, the system switches to "emergency backfilling" even before the match starts, and sometimes (if not enough people are in the queue who don't already have a match brewing for them), you won't get it in time. The 4v8 specifically probably happen when a premade was supposed to be in your group but decided to decline the pop because one of them had issues, was afk or something. The annoying thing happens when they wait until the last second of the pop window (in case the problem is solved) and then the game can't try to find filler in the meantime, and the match starts before others have a chance to join it. Most of the solutions for premades (which you can see in this thread) will solve this problem as a side effect (separating premades from solo limits the problem to solo queuers who decline pops only, "same match, NOT same side" makes it more probable that the other team will suffer the loss just like you and it will be more like 6v6 or 7v5 but not 4v8, and reducing the premade max to 2 reduces the possible effect they can have to 6v8)

Edited May 30, 2018 by Rafiknoll