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Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Why NO KILL option on Ashara?

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
04.14.2018 , 08:22 AM | #301
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
I guess it is a bit fancier than what we are used to getting yeah. I honestly thought people found it silly as there were so many jokes made about it, like "arcann is knitting" Didn't know people actually liked it.
Sure would be cool if other companions did so as well. It's still only a top however, and it isn't exactly the same as the full armor set you can get off the CM, but almost identical. I think you still get it if you don't decide to do the romance with him, but I could be wrong on that one. Maybe it'll be something they'll continue to do in the future.
It's not something i'd put on any of my characters, but yeah, I've seen people wearing it. :P To me it's got weird implications, the Knights were underlings to Arcann.

I wasn't aware it was just the top and not the whole armor, but IMHO it's still an example of Arcann being treated differently in the writing because he's someone's personal favorite. I can't think that in 2 years Lana, Theron or Koth never would have bought the commander a present. I'd like to hope it's something they will expand to all the companions in the name of fairness.

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
04.14.2018 , 08:29 AM | #302
Quote: Originally Posted by Sinhammer View Post
I completely agree with you here. I've written books and I've written for TV. It is unfortunate but sometimes the business end of it (i.e., the bosses) have to take precedent on what happens in a story, and the writer is powerless to prevent it, even when said story event goes contrary to written lore/laws within the story universe. The unfortunate side effect of that is the writer gets blamed for the stupidity and not the people calling the shots. I have seen both ends of that. The examples I listed are not that. They are examples of the actual writer run amok to their own selfishness and left unchecked, whether by the powers that be or by their reader/viewer-base. I could list many such examples but I won't get all into that; it's sort of veering off-topic a bit.
Yup. Sometimes the Powers That Be decide a character is going to do something or the series is going to take a specific turn, and the writers can be spluttering and explaining up and down that it's not canon or realistic within the set parameters, and it still happens. And then they're the fall guys.

But the writers running amok on their own is exactly why I think there's always a need for QC and good editors. There should be oversight and an objective voice to counter when a writer becomes too subjective. In this case I think someone at Bioware should have looked at these companion returns and what was done with Arcann from KOTET onward and sent them back to the table for revisions. No one writer on a video game *should* have an opening to do what was done with Arcann or to write consistently OOC companion returns, but it wasn't checked. So I blame Bioware for this above all.

Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
04.14.2018 , 08:31 AM | #303
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
I'm not going to personally bash this writer because that isn't cool.
Agreed.
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
The fact that Arcann gives players expensive presents, as well - you're telling me that the other love interests would never think of giving their partner something nice, but the selfish despot who took over the galaxy and oppressed it for his own jollies is going to hand over Cartel Market armor?
Well it's not exactly the same as the cartel version. (Of course, some folks may actually view this as worse, given that letting Arcann survive is the only way to get this exact model.) As well as the vanilla companions giving us three gifts each at the successful conclusion of their romance arcs, there are some other things earlier in the story, like Aric Jorgan giving the female Trooper a lovely jeweled necklace to congratulate her on a promotion. But it's true that I don't remember any other companion giving us an item we can literally put on our character and have everyone see as visible. Maybe it's something more of them could do in the future!
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Eshvara's Avatar


Eshvara
04.14.2018 , 08:33 AM | #304
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
It's not something i'd put on any of my characters, but yeah, I've seen people wearing it. :P To me it's got weird implications, the Knights were underlings to Arcann.

I wasn't aware it was just the top and not the whole armor, but IMHO it's still an example of Arcann being treated differently in the writing because he's someone's personal favorite. I can't think that in 2 years Lana, Theron or Koth never would have bought the commander a present. I'd like to hope it's something they will expand to all the companions in the name of fairness.
Yeah, I guess I can see why people would find it unfair! You'd think longer standing relationships would have more opportunities to give you something nice! I haven't worn mine as I don't particularly like that armor, but the gesture was to me at least extremely sweet! So it's only natural that others would want something like that too. It makes it kind of personal, in a nice way, if you're into that!
I hope they'll do it for the others as well!

Quote: Originally Posted by Estelindis View Post
Agreed.

Well it's not exactly the same as the cartel version. (Of course, some folks may actually view this as worse, given that letting Arcann survive is the only way to get this exact model.) As well as the vanilla companions giving us three gifts each at the successful conclusion of their romance arcs, there are some other things earlier in the story, like Aric Jorgan giving the female Trooper a lovely jeweled necklace to congratulate her on a promotion. But it's true that I don't remember any other companion giving us an item we can literally put on our character and have everyone see as visible. Maybe it's something more of them could do in the future!
Corso gives you flashy! (?) I think that kinda counts?
#Arcannite
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Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
04.14.2018 , 08:39 AM | #305
Quote: Originally Posted by Eshvara View Post
Corso gives you flashy! (?) I think that kinda counts?
OMG yes! How could I forget Flashy?? Corso, I'm sorry!

Edit: Actually, he gives a romanced Smuggler Sparkles as well. I still use that on my lady smug. Seriously, what's wrong with me??
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JennyFlynn's Avatar


JennyFlynn
04.14.2018 , 08:49 AM | #306
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
The Arcann romance AFAIK was 100% her. I read elsewhere that she had campaigned heavily for it before it was even considered. by fans and was a big Arcann fan.

What I wonder now is how much that influenced what was done with Arcann in KOTET. We've talked before about how unrealistic Arcann's 'redemption' and subsequent universal acceptance on the Alliance base was. How much of that was due to the writer's personal preference for the character? That was sacrificing realism and justice for favoritism, as well as making an abusive and genocidal character sympathetic.
Oh I'm aware. The Arcann romance was mostly written long before it even received the 'go ahead', so I suppose there is some moderation of their work done in terms of "We can/cannot do this". It just feels that's also about the extent of quality control because Charles, as the head of the department and a man who's been involved with SWTOR writing since launch, should not be approving some of the written content used for the reunions. He should know Corso, Andronikos, Risha etc. better than that but perhaps it was a matter of just getting it over and done with and quality took a backseat. I also can't see him as the sort of 'boss' who slaps his own writers on the wrist and makes a lot of corrections, he strikes me as the praise and constant support type instead.

As for redemption, there wasn't really any unless you count "Bibbity bobbity boo now you're a nice guy!". Gifts... eh, our old LI's did send us some in the mail every now and then, mere companion gift stuff you then give back to them but hey. Though it does feel Arcann's presented with perks each time. First in order to save Senya, you have to save him and now you get a piece of armor for participating in his romance alert, even if you reject him.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sinhammer View Post
The TLDR version: a good writer knows how to balance their OWN thoughts and desires for their work with what SHOULD happen because of public interest.
100% all of your post.

Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
Writing for something like a video game. TV show or comic is markedly different than writing a novel, in that you are writing FOR an audience and also writing within specific parameters. You can take a character someplace new, but every comic and video game and series does have a 'bible' that describes how things are supposed to be,

Even if a character is your favorite you don't get to suspend both disbelief and the rules of that universe to suit your own personal preferences and predilections, and that is what the failure is here.
That's exactly it. Now, I can understand that in the course of six years our companions have grown. They've had their own adventures and experiences that may have well changed parts of who they are or used to be, and that's fine. But to change them so drastically, make them so unlike themselves isn't right. We're supposed to be reuniting with the person we fell in love with, not a stranger wearing their face because the writer decided to make some changes to their personality.

I'm not looking to attack Samantha directly. Sure she's made statements in that interview that I strongly disagree with when it comes to being a writer for a game, and it is blatantly obvious she did put forward some of her own ideals at the expense of our PCs, and shipped her own favorite, which I don't feel you should be doing but on the other hand, those above her should have put a halt to the material and asked for better. Both sides are responsible for this situation.

I do also realize there are limitations. Perhaps a writer has written out a 15-minute wonderful scene but it includes animations or a setting the art department cannot seem to put together, or the bosses above feel it's too much and a lot of the material ends up being cut down into something of a TLDR. So, no, it isn't all on her nor is she solely to blame but I do feel she has made some poor choices. Nothing against her as a person, I'm sure she's lovely and nice, she sure sounded it when replying to my Tweets but that doesn't mean I have to laud her work.
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Damask_Rose's Avatar


Damask_Rose
04.14.2018 , 08:49 AM | #307
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
The Arcann romance AFAIK was 100% her. I read elsewhere that she had campaigned heavily for it before it was even considered. by fans and was a big Arcann fan.
Yep. She did say in the article that she loves the enemies to lovers trope.

Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
What I wonder now is how much that influenced what was done with Arcann in KOTET. We've talked before about how unrealistic Arcann's 'redemption' and subsequent universal acceptance on the Alliance base was. How much of that was due to the writer's personal preference for the character? That was sacrificing realism and justice for favoritism, as well as making an abusive and genocidal character sympathetic.
In my more charitable moments, I think his redemption would have been much more developed if they hadn't compressed KOtET & KOX into 1/4 of what it was originally designed to be. Perhaps they are having the same issue with the companion returns: trying to compress a full chapter into 2 minutes?

Quote: Originally Posted by JennyFlynn View Post
Yes, they were short. I can't speak to Elara's but with Quinn, personally as a fan, I could have done without regurgitating his 'betrayal' stuff from years ago. That said, it wasn't too horrific in terms of the dialogue. Biggest faults lay in the brevity of it, the failing customization and the eff up they made with his name.
I found Elara's return to be much worse than Quinn's. My 100% light side trooper's BFF was down right hostile to her for no reason. By the end I was ready to put her out of my misery.
My name is Milind. I checked it again and can confirm you there is no bug with any companion in the game.

Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
04.14.2018 , 08:53 AM | #308
Quote: Originally Posted by Damask_Rose View Post
In my more charitable moments, I think his redemption would have been much more developed if they hadn't compressed KOtET & KOX into 1/4 of what it was originally designed to be. Perhaps they are having the same issue with the companion returns: trying to compress a full chapter into 2 minutes?
This seems likely. It makes me really sad that those of us who waited the longest are going to get the shortest returns. We're the ones who deserve more. All the same, "in my more charitable moments" I think that the BW writers are probably sadder than any of us about how this has turned out.
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JennyFlynn's Avatar


JennyFlynn
04.14.2018 , 09:02 AM | #309
Quote: Originally Posted by Estelindis View Post
This seems likely. It makes me really sad that those of us who waited the longest are going to get the shortest returns. We're the ones who deserve more. All the same, "in my more charitable moments" I think that the BW writers are probably sadder than any of us about how this has turned out.
Not sure if they are sadder but I don't think this is what Charles' had wanted originally. He tends to chuckle and laugh a lot during Livestreams when story and companions come up, and it appears he is just laughing things off but to me it looks more like a nervous laughter. Like he knows there are harsh critiques, he is well aware of the displeasures, he knows it isn't what players or he himself wanted, he also knows why it isn't but cannot say so he's just in an awkward position each time the issue's brought up and you get this sort of uncomfortable/nervous grimacing and laughing.

I would have liked to see what we were supposed to be getting if plans hadn't been altered and rushed, I'd like to know what he had in mind for everything in terms of story and reunions and I'd like him to level with us and have an honest conversation about these things but I'm aware that's likely just not possible. On top of that, the last time he was brave enough to post on the forums with an in-depth look at a character (Valkorion), war broke out basically and Charles doesn't strike me as the type of person who's good at handling such confrontational and controversial things, which is okay, not everyone is.
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Estelindis's Avatar


Estelindis
04.14.2018 , 09:13 AM | #310
Quote: Originally Posted by JennyFlynn View Post
I would have liked to see what we were supposed to be getting if plans hadn't been altered and rushed, I'd like to know what he had in mind for everything in terms of story and reunions and I'd like him to level with us and have an honest conversation about these things but I'm aware that's likely just not possible. On top of that, the last time he was brave enough to post on the forums with an in-depth look at a character (Valkorion), war broke out basically and Charles doesn't strike me as the type of person who's good at handling such confrontational and controversial things, which is okay, not everyone is.
Once all the companion returns are done and the game moves on to the next storyline, I would love to know what the writers fully intended. And yes, the previous experience mightn't incentivize them to want to share that with us... Sometimes sharing might-have-beens can seem non-constructive because it makes what we actually got look worse. But for me it restores some faith in the writing team if I can look at what they actually wanted to do and think "yes, I would've loved that."
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