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Level the playing field on conquests: end the operation last-boss-lockout daisy chain

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Level the playing field on conquests: end the operation last-boss-lockout daisy chain

DWho's Avatar


DWho
03.06.2018 , 05:27 PM | #11
With the changes to Conquest, I'd be pretty confident that they will be watching this and how it relates to the number of conquest points generated by guilds. It will be harder to do since you won't know ahead of time which OP to stockpile last boss runs on. They looked at the pre-crafting issue and determined it was not what they intended when they set up conquest. Last Boss runs are just another potential exploit of the CQ system they could go after.

lightSaberAddiCt's Avatar


lightSaberAddiCt
03.06.2018 , 06:01 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by CaptRogue View Post
No. This is not an issue. lol
Besides with Conquest being revamped good chance something will be changed to either screw you up more with conquest or open a newer BIGGER "advantage" for conquest with larger guilds. Take your pic.

But I for one like it the way it is. Been running them like that for a week or more with a random Imp player who does them for CXP. Not conquest.

(Really though, you're going to whine about one of the easiest ways to get conquest if you have a somewhat decent guild base who knows SM Ops, instead of crafting which requires less & can amass even more points?! lol *smh*)
The people complaining are ones that are either solo players, or people with like 4 people in their guild. And instead of just jumping in one of the 100s of call outs on fleet for it, due to their antisocial playstyle, think it should be changed for everyone. Just a guess.
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Helgram's Avatar


Helgram
03.06.2018 , 06:06 PM | #13
I'm not clear on how lockouts give bigger guilds an advantage. As someone else above pointed out, you just need 8 people to run a groupfinder lockout (just like you do an op). Tiny 8-person guilds can run both ops and ops lockouts just like larger guilds can.

Lockouts, whether planned or not, have become just another content mode. They offer easy 8-man group content in bite-size 15 minute installments.

A valid reason to eliminate them from a Conquest standpoint is that guilds must do lockouts, rather than full runs, to be competitive on a non-crafting week. Is it worth removing a very popular game mode to remedy that requirement, though?

[Edit] And, to top it off, the request to remove lockouts further makes no sense because the changes Keith and Eric listed pretty much eliminate all competition from Conquest. Conquest, as a competitive activity, is dead as of next Tuesday. You hit your point total, you get your goodies. The number one spot for each planet will still be won by the top Conquest guild that wants that planet. The smaller guilds still don't have a chance at it.

DWho's Avatar


DWho
03.06.2018 , 06:14 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Helgram View Post
I'm not clear on how lockouts give bigger guilds an advantage. As someone else above pointed out, you just need 8 people to run a groupfinder lockout (just like you do an op). Tiny 8-person guilds can run both ops and ops lockouts just like larger guilds can.

Lockouts, whether planned or not, have become just another content mode. They offer easy 8-man group content in bite-size 15 minute installments.

A valid reason to eliminate them from a Conquest standpoint is that guilds must do lockouts, rather than full runs, to be competitive on a non-crafting week. Is it worth removing a very popular game mode to remedy that requirement, though?

[Edit] And, to top it off, the request to remove lockouts further makes no sense because the changes Keith and Eric listed pretty much eliminate all competition from Conquest. Conquest, as a competitive activity, is dead as of next Tuesday. You hit your point total, you get your goodies. The number one spot for each planet will still be won by the top Conquest guild that wants that planet. The smaller guilds still don't have a chance at it.
I think if you wanted to keep the lockout in CQ it should at least be worth less points than a full run. The idea of points per boss defeated might be a way to balance that. I don't think totally removing it from the game is the answer.

Kyrra_T's Avatar


Kyrra_T
03.06.2018 , 06:25 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Helgram View Post
I'm not clear on how lockouts give bigger guilds an advantage. As someone else above pointed out, you just need 8 people to run a groupfinder lockout (just like you do an op). Tiny 8-person guilds can run both ops and ops lockouts just like larger guilds can.

Lockouts, whether planned or not, have become just another content mode. They offer easy 8-man group content in bite-size 15 minute installments.

A valid reason to eliminate them from a Conquest standpoint is that guilds must do lockouts, rather than full runs, to be competitive on a non-crafting week. Is it worth removing a very popular game mode to remedy that requirement, though?

[Edit] And, to top it off, the request to remove lockouts further makes no sense because the changes Keith and Eric listed pretty much eliminate all competition from Conquest. Conquest, as a competitive activity, is dead as of next Tuesday. You hit your point total, you get your goodies. The number one spot for each planet will still be won by the top Conquest guild that wants that planet. The smaller guilds still don't have a chance at it.
This. After next week everyone gets a participation prize in conquest. No one is left out. They ALL get a prize as long as they make their conquest goal for their planet.

There is no competition at all other than for the title.

Removing last boss lockouts won't force guilds to take a PUG, they will still favor guild members, all it would do is decrease the number of last bosses run and the number of overall players able to participate in conquest. Not everyone can spend over an hour online at a time, 15 to 20 minutes they can do.

Some folks, like the OP might 'think' they have a better chance with fewer people participating. These changes are trying to 'increase' participation.

Proposing ending last boss is the same as saying 'oh I think you should only be able to do one PVP match an hour that counts toward conquest.

peter_plankskull's Avatar


peter_plankskull
03.06.2018 , 08:28 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by lightSaberAddiCt View Post
The people complaining are ones that are either solo players, or people with like 4 people in their guild. And instead of just jumping in one of the 100s of call outs on fleet for it, due to their antisocial playstyle, think it should be changed for everyone. Just a guess.
No... not everyone is a antisocial whiner...

I myself have led, and well... if I had better internet right now... would still continue to lead any sm ops around, and although my guild goes through hardships here and their, we have enough people to op. My problem with this lockout proliferated, exploiting, nonsensical, and cheap method is just that... everything I mentioned. I go through the entire operation forming a group to do something like... Rav, going through all five bosses, and in that time Johnny and his gang can simply roll Revan 4-5 times getting a MUCH larger reward. That's assuming its a nice and clean run on Rav too, no trouble or wipe fest on Master and Blaster, and well uh... s... .someone ... didn't have a pet out at Cortannai ... resetting the fight.

It's sort of like working retail at a clothing store, you work hard on a customer going through their entire story of why they want that suit or dress, letting them try it on, perhaps they don't like it and try on another item on and continue to do this for a few more items, and then you can finally ring them up. Johnny on the other hand doesn't do any of that, and simply rings them up (or waits till you have done all the work, then offers to ring the customer stealing your money ) and gets the reward right away, with virtually no effort required.

That CXP reward at the end is just so large... where it's just better to farm lockouts rather than going through the entire raid. Is it fair for someone to do 1/5 the work, and get that giant payout at the end compared to someone going 5/5, doing every little bit of it?

Quote: Originally Posted by DWho View Post
I think if you wanted to keep the lockout in CQ it should at least be worth less points than a full run. The idea of points per boss defeated might be a way to balance that. I don't think totally removing it from the game is the answer.
^This... please Bioware.

Tahana's Avatar


Tahana
03.06.2018 , 08:45 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
Massive guilds get millions of conquest points ahead of everyone else by manipulating the last boss lockout on operations. Level the playing field by removing this ability and make those guilds run conquests the same as the not-huge guilds.
I don't think they should eliminate ops from conquest.. But I think they need to make that you have to kill all the bosses of an operation to get any points.. It shouldn't just depend on the final boss.
What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to
what lies within us. - Ralph Waldo Emerson -

Morteistno's Avatar


Morteistno
03.06.2018 , 08:55 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by xordevoreaux View Post
Massive guilds get millions of conquest points ahead of everyone else by manipulating the last boss lockout on operations. Level the playing field by removing this ability and make those guilds run conquests the same as the not-huge guilds.
I am a member of one of the guilds that runs a lot of lockouts, Personally I participate in them only occasionally, ie if they absolutely need an extra dps or something or to push me over the personal conquest goal on an alt. My focus lateley had been mostly on achievements in master fp's and trying to get better at ranked pvp

Now that said I do agree with you. I don't think it is 'fun' to run a lockout (hence why I don't do it often) and I am pretty sure that most of the players doing them don't think of them as fun either. More as a means to an end (ie finish high in conquest, which in itself is mostly an ego or achievement / grabbing titles thing). What I typically think I see is a few players with many alts pushing them through the lockouts for conquest. I assume it is similar with the other big guilds. I.e. you have a core of maybe only 5 or so real life people with many alts that fill the absolutely needed spots (tank, dwt, heal usually..) and then the rest of the guild players fill it up with what is needed.

So my points

First off my observation is that also the 'big guilds' are really not that big. Their foundation exist on a very small (as said only a few) core people who are really passionate about conquest and have many alts. Take these people away and conquest scores would drop dramatically. (Ie someone has to get the lockout, someone has to play heal & tank more often than they probably like). If you had a 10 man real life group of people with a lot of dedication and alts you would beat the 'big guilds' easily in my opinion. You would be the new big guild and rule conquest imo. (as is the current big guild group of core dedicated people is below 10 in rl imo)

Then secondly yes I agree that the lockout running should not be the 'cheesy' way to run conquest, As said I don't think even the people running them enjoy it much. It is a means to an end nothing else. These same people would probably still win conquest events however you change the formula but my guess is that they as well would be happier doing this with things they really enjoy in the game than running a lockout for the xxxx'th time.

Vercundus's Avatar


Vercundus
03.07.2018 , 01:53 AM | #19
In my guild, the problem is the following. We mainly focus on HM OPs but want to do Conquest as well. We rarely have time and people to do both. Conquest do not reward HM or NiM OPs (except in few cases). It is actually stupid that easier OP is giving more rewards in terms of CXP and conquest points.
Choices matter... I choose not to sub until conquest is fixed...

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Sundown's Avatar


Sundown
03.07.2018 , 05:42 AM | #20
Well, they said they'd make "daily tasks". I am pretty sure that is how they will deal with the lockouts. If any account can only get conquest points for one operation per day it is rather insignificant whether it was a full run or not.

Still: larger guilds will have an edge over the smaller ones and that will remain that way until you take the number of players out of the equation (e.g. taking average numbers or so), which would somewhat defeat the purpose.