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Keith's 3/4/2018 Interview with the Bad Feeling Podcast

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Keith's 3/4/2018 Interview with the Bad Feeling Podcast

DWho's Avatar


DWho
03.08.2018 , 07:22 PM | #281
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
As someone who doesn’t really play story, I don’t think that’s fair. 15 mins of story isn’t replayable the same as Operations, flash points or pvp.
I would tend to agree but there have been people posting here that think even the minute or two we currently get is too much. As I posted elsewhere, I think the way to go about it is to abandon the idea of a "story" flashpoint and create the group content from the story content.

1) create a "chapter" of story content
2) add flashpoint mechanics to the chapter and take out most of the cutscenes/convos then drop in a couple of flashpoint bosses at chokepoints. Then you have basically the same thing as the Umbara or Traitor flashpoints but the "story content" doesn't feel like a dumbed down flashpoint.
3) Pseudo operations could be constructed from the flashpoints by upgrading the NPCs to Ops level, then adding unique Ops bosses between several linked flashpoints. That way you get Ops type content on a more regular basis than you would from creating brand new ones (If it takes 18 months to get a full raid, I would think raiders would be happy to have something raid-like in between)

That gives everyone something and reuses a lot of content to do it, hopefully simplifying the process. Of course there will be the people who complain that it is not focusing enough on their gameplay style because it has its basis in "story" content. Several KotFE and KotET chapters could have been converted into decent flashpoints but the uproar about "using story content for group content" would be deafening (though there doesn't seem to be an issue with using "group content for story content" from those same people)

Jdast's Avatar


Jdast
03.08.2018 , 07:36 PM | #282
Quote: Originally Posted by AlienEyeTX View Post
The problem with story mode via FP is that you have to play it all through in one sitting and sometimes that just plain sucks.
I agree that can be an issue. I think the trend within the industry (taking WoW and SWTOR as examples) is to shorten them or have them doable in wings. But, yes, I take your point. I'm lucky since I don't have kids so it is easier to appreciate the sort of epic nature of going into a FP for the first time. I typically dim the lights, open a bottle of wine and have at it.

I thought the way BW handled the SoR instances was perfect since most people can block a 30 minute period at some point in their lives. And even if you have to change diapers, stop the cat from attacking the dog, you can usually be AFK long enough that you aren't booted.

But to your point, one of my favorite FP's lore-wise is False Emperor to wrap up the Darth Malgus storyline (but is it truly wrapped up? Duh duh duh....) Since I like to do the bonus objectives, and look around, I know I need a good hour to complete it. The FP's after that, fortunately, have all been noticeably shorter.

With that said, and this will be meaningless to those who didn't play WoW, and I'm doing this only because I want to be a jerk and bring back horrid memories...I would just like to throw out a couple words that will likely send old time WoW players people into apoplexy: 1) Original Sunken Temple; 2) Original Blackrock Depths: and 3) Heroic Shattered Halls. Wow, I'm a _____.

Hugs,

Nasty Dasty

Lunafox's Avatar


Lunafox
03.08.2018 , 08:27 PM | #283
Quote: Originally Posted by DWho View Post
I would tend to agree but there have been people posting here that think even the minute or two we currently get is too much. As I posted elsewhere, I think the way to go about it is to abandon the idea of a "story" flashpoint and create the group content from the story content.

1) create a "chapter" of story content
2) add flashpoint mechanics to the chapter and take out most of the cutscenes/convos then drop in a couple of flashpoint bosses at chokepoints. Then you have basically the same thing as the Umbara or Traitor flashpoints but the "story content" doesn't feel like a dumbed down flashpoint.
3) Pseudo operations could be constructed from the flashpoints by upgrading the NPCs to Ops level, then adding unique Ops bosses between several linked flashpoints. That way you get Ops type content on a more regular basis than you would from creating brand new ones (If it takes 18 months to get a full raid, I would think raiders would be happy to have something raid-like in between)

That gives everyone something and reuses a lot of content to do it, hopefully simplifying the process. Of course there will be the people who complain that it is not focusing enough on their gameplay style because it has its basis in "story" content. Several KotFE and KotET chapters could have been converted into decent flashpoints but the uproar about "using story content for group content" would be deafening (though there doesn't seem to be an issue with using "group content for story content" from those same people)
I don't agree with trying to gate story behind group play. For years, I had to endure getting the start of a story, only to learn the ending is gated behind an OP or group FP. As a solo player I'd never get to see the endings. And if they gate story into group activities, then I will never get to see a story and there goes my reason to remain.

I thought they'd learned their lesson, when they allowed the FPs to be played and enjoyed by solo-ers because it finally meant I could see the endings to the stories and get to enjoy the whole thing. The godbot was a great idea because it opened up tons of story that I previously didn't get to experience.

Gating story behind group activity isn't right or good for the game. Story has to be available to all people, whether they are solo players or group players. As far as I'm concerned, it would be great if there was a proper ending for soloers for the whole Oricon thing. They have to keep story accessible and if they persist in putting it in FP's (which I hate because there isn't enough story in them) then they have to at the very least allow a story mode where a person can solo through to experience the story.

MishaCantu's Avatar


MishaCantu
03.08.2018 , 08:31 PM | #284
Quote: Originally Posted by Jdast View Post
I agree that can be an issue. I think the trend within the industry (taking WoW and SWTOR as examples) is to shorten them or have them doable in wings. But, yes, I take your point. I'm lucky since I don't have kids so it is easier to appreciate the sort of epic nature of going into a FP for the first time. I typically dim the lights, open a bottle of wine and have at it.

I thought the way BW handled the SoR instances was perfect since most people can block a 30 minute period at some point in their lives. And even if you have to change diapers, stop the cat from attacking the dog, you can usually be AFK long enough that you aren't booted.

But to your point, one of my favorite FP's lore-wise is False Emperor to wrap up the Darth Malgus storyline (but is it truly wrapped up? Duh duh duh....) Since I like to do the bonus objectives, and look around, I know I need a good hour to complete it. The FP's after that, fortunately, have all been noticeably shorter.

With that said, and this will be meaningless to those who didn't play WoW, and I'm doing this only because I want to be a jerk and bring back horrid memories...I would just like to throw out a couple words that will likely send old time WoW players people into apoplexy: 1) Original Sunken Temple; 2) Original Blackrock Depths: and 3) Heroic Shattered Halls. Wow, I'm a _____.

Hugs,

Nasty Dasty
Agree about SOR being darned near perfect. AND, you've just given me flashback nightmares. You really went there, lol. Thanks a bunch.

Cheers

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
03.08.2018 , 11:42 PM | #285
Quote: Originally Posted by DWho View Post
I'd be fine with the everybody gets the same amount of content approach. So for the next patch, OPs players should get 1 boss (15 minutes of play), the FP players should get 1 flashpoint (15 minutes of play), "story players should get 15 minutes of story content not tied to any other content, and PVPers should get a new map. There we go, even.

Going forward each month we can do the same one OPs boss in one difficulty level, 1 flashpoint in 1 difficulty level, a new PVP map, and 15 minutes of story (a Chapter). That seems fair doesn't it.
If they really did this I'd be happy with it.

OneHit's Avatar


OneHit
03.09.2018 , 12:31 AM | #286
Quote: Originally Posted by IoNonSoEVero View Post
If they really did this I'd be happy with it.
Sure. But right now they cant even get a forum post out in a month 😂😂😂

IoNonSoEVero's Avatar


IoNonSoEVero
03.09.2018 , 02:17 AM | #287
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post

I don't disagree with really anything you said except 3 (and about the gameplay being intense, but I did stuff Vet/Master mode first chance I got, and those were more intense than the FPs imho, but I know not everyone played those). I actually think if you include the Iokath storyline, there was a fair bit of story equal to a couple KOTFE chapters (I mean a couple KOTFE chapters had not much story, so not a high bar). But that did come out over a year ago (though still in 2017) so for the rest of it I can agree, and as I mentioned, I'm not "moralistically opposed" to having some solo player conclusion to Oricon/Gods(I think the people who have been clamoring for this for years would be quite disappointed tbh though, they really are not impressive), but the amount of resources it would take means that I would argue against BW doing so when they could provide new content instead.

I enjoyed this discussion too Clearly we are mortal enemies, but it doesn't mean we can't be polite about it
But of course. Even the Empire and Republic have worked together, no reason we can't have a chat.

For Oricon, they've taken away the purple quest (main story) designation from Oricon so people dont' get inadvertently roped into it. That's something. I do agree that at this point it's far more important to do new content, as much as I'd like to see solo paths for Oricon and Iokath. What I hope, though, is that Bioware will finally learn that ending story chains with Ops isn't cool, and will not do it again with future story arcs (I know, what future story arcs, but hope springs eternal).

Iokath was certainly vastly better, and had more story, than the two flashpoints, but yes, over a year ago.

For the more intense gameplay, perhaps that is one of the differences between group and solo players. If you are running everything on Veteran or MM and are used to doing Ops, the two flashpoints might not have been too intense. For me, a solo player who is more accustomed to lower-level flashpoints and more laid-back story quests, taking my tank through Umbara and Copero was very unpleasant. Mob after mob after mob, a very long slog to kill the bosses, and no real breaks. My DPS was easier, but still a pain. My characters are fairly well geared (one had about a 246 rating when she did Copero and Umbara, the other was 230s), and I've been able to one-shot many bosses in flashpoints and most of the ones in KOTET/KOTFE.

They did have to nerf the story mode of Copero because so many people were having trouble or finding it very unpleasant, and the players who were complaining were ones who usually did *not* complain about difficulty. But the bosses had HPs in the millions, and there were all those platinum mobs, which are things that usually seem to be in the higher difficulty modes.

That seems to indicate, at least to me, that even the content that is ostensibly supposed to be for story players is being designed with the group player population in mind; those who are more experienced with the VM and MM flashpoints and ops and perhaps have more BIS gear and augments. Not the story/solo player who likes a challenge but doesn't like that intense of a challenge. Shoving the story into the flashpoints makes this a problem.

Keta's Avatar


Keta
03.09.2018 , 10:15 AM | #288
They put story into FP's for one reason only, i allows them to check off the "We Provided Group Content" and the "WE provided Story Content" boxes at the same time. We are well into maintenance mode here.
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CrazyCT's Avatar


CrazyCT
03.09.2018 , 10:23 AM | #289
Quote: Originally Posted by Keta View Post
They put story into FP's for one reason only, i allows them to check off the "We Provided Group Content" and the "WE provided Story Content" boxes at the same time. We are well into maintenance mode here.
Adding content is maintenance mode?
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TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
03.09.2018 , 10:29 AM | #290
Quote: Originally Posted by CrazyCT View Post
Adding content is maintenance mode?
Adding just enough to keep people believing it's still being worked on is "maintenance mode"...they're trying to "maintain" some of what they have, not grow.
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