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Please make Rage more durable


memerobot's Avatar


memerobot
02.28.2018 , 06:00 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
I'm not sure what your point is? All I'm saying is if you're comparing any spec to fury, chances are that spec is going to look pretty bad, since you're comparing it to arguably the best melee spec in pvp right now
We were just comparing Rage with Veng and Fury, nothing more. It is a topic about Rage, that is all.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.28.2018 , 08:44 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by AdjeYo View Post
I'm not sure what your point is? All I'm saying is if you're comparing any spec to fury, chances are that spec is going to look pretty bad, since you're comparing it to arguably the best melee spec in pvp right now
i make the comparison because fury maras and rage juggs used to share a tree, and are thus very similar specs. Extrapolating, I feel this makes it a fair comparison.

DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
02.28.2018 , 08:59 PM | #13
Wow you guys complaining about Fury by comparison considering weíre the only spec Melee that has no self heals and no second health.

The thing is utility wise that terrible self heal of deflection is never taken because of more important utilities because if you want to heal you might as well take up a utility to do with force camouflage and get out of combat then use channel hatred.

But honestly stop complaining and comparing specs that are totally different except for the core abilities and a few passives.

Rage is great except from the defences but then again I agree with the op it should have better defences compared to Veng because of the stance but as some have stated that Veng should be defensive when it shouldnít it has higher damage radius because if youíre playing correctly and with the right stats unless youíre in a 1v1 youíll have less DPS than Rage but other than that your DPS can be through the roof in fights where there is more than one opponent.

In WZís you can easily survive and when jumped on by 2-3 opponents of using dcds correctly bleeds spread sweeping slash (25% passive increase on bleeds + 25% utility damage increase) you can easily hit 10k with each sweeping slash on all opponents with your bleed effects.

The only place Veng isnít viable is ranked but the same goes for Rage.

The only thing I believe is Veng should have self heals from bleeds to compensate and Rage should have better DR, CC immunity should be changed from Intercede as why would we use this we ainít tanks so change the CC immunity trigger to when you use Obliterate.
Because i understand keeping cc immunities tied to different abilities on different specs and considering the ability can be used when immobilised and it immobilises opponents for 1sec.
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.28.2018 , 10:19 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
Wow you guys complaining about Fury by comparison considering weíre the only spec Melee that has no self heals and no second health.

The thing is utility wise that terrible self heal of deflection is never taken because of more important utilities because if you want to heal you might as well take up a utility to do with force camouflage and get out of combat then use channel hatred.

But honestly stop complaining and comparing specs that are totally different except for the core abilities and a few passives.

Rage is great except from the defences but then again I agree with the op it should have better defences compared to Veng because of the stance but as some have stated that Veng should be defensive when it shouldnít it has higher damage radius because if youíre playing correctly and with the right stats unless youíre in a 1v1 youíll have less DPS than Rage but other than that your DPS can be through the roof in fights where there is more than one opponent.

In WZís you can easily survive and when jumped on by 2-3 opponents of using dcds correctly bleeds spread sweeping slash (25% passive increase on bleeds + 25% utility damage increase) you can easily hit 10k with each sweeping slash on all opponents with your bleed effects.

The only place Veng isnít viable is ranked but the same goes for Rage.

The only thing I believe is Veng should have self heals from bleeds to compensate and Rage should have better DR, CC immunity should be changed from Intercede as why would we use this we ainít tanks so change the CC immunity trigger to when you use Obliterate.
Because i understand keeping cc immunities tied to different abilities on different specs and considering the ability can be used when immobilised and it immobilises opponents for 1sec.
i'm one of the few not complaining about maras. i'm saying fury is strictly superior to rage since the poorly scaled enraged defense. Assuming you have a healer, there is literally no situation in which a fury mara is not better than a rage juggie. Since fury and mara used to be the shared tree and according to a guildie are still similar I feel it's a fair comparison, however.

That said, I don't want to play a fury mara or I'd go learn to do it. Guardians are my thing and have been since I started playing. For the record, rage isn't a tank either. Immortal is.

DarthSealth's Avatar


DarthSealth
03.01.2018 , 01:02 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
i'm one of the few not complaining about maras. i'm saying fury is strictly superior to rage since the poorly scaled enraged defense. Assuming you have a healer, there is literally no situation in which a fury mara is not better than a rage juggie. Since fury and mara used to be the shared tree and according to a guildie are still similar I feel it's a fair comparison, however.

That said, I don't want to play a fury mara or I'd go learn to do it. Guardians are my thing and have been since I started playing. For the record, rage isn't a tank either. Immortal is.
Quote me where I said Rage is a tank? I said we have a CC immunity that is tied to intercede that you should only be using as a tank.

Iíve been playing Both since beta when they had the same name that is Rage.

Iíll compare the passives when Iím next in game and report back but I am pretty sure the passives are only the same until lvl40 after that everything is mostly different like enrage/berserk and force crush grant a free smash/burst, Force crush grants a free Furious strike instead of the cc immunity thereís a couple others but itís definitely not the exact same mirror and both work very differently heck when using Furyís berserk first ability you should use is ravage because then any abilities used with the rage builder converts straight back into Fury stacks.

Enrage works differently but it still holds the same principle as berserk as the both classes have two rotations one consisting of Force Crush and the other Berserk/Enrage.

That being said comparison should be kept within the advance classes these class situate within not with classes that havenít got all the same tools as the other.
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AdjeYo's Avatar


AdjeYo
03.01.2018 , 07:05 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
The only thing I believe is Veng should have self heals from bleeds to compensate and Rage should have better DR, CC immunity should be changed from Intercede as why would we use this we ainít tanks so change the CC immunity trigger to when you use Obliterate.
Because i understand keeping cc immunities tied to different abilities on different specs and considering the ability can be used when immobilised and it immobilises opponents for 1sec.
It's not a cc immunity on intercede it's a movement impairing effect purge and I'd much rather keep it on intercede, since an obliterate root break would require an enemy within 10m, and you don't really need a rootbreak at that point, since you can just obliterate while rooted anyways.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
03.01.2018 , 07:18 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
That being said comparison should be kept within the advance classes these class situate within not with classes that havenít got all the same tools as the other.
Ok in that case both have survivability that sucks. The ninja nerf with the poor scaling of focussed defense sucks.

Since I run with a healer I'll take DR DCDs over the sucky self heal all day every day. Oh and an actual disengage of some kind. Ok the other hand, since everyone now ignores guardian reflect and focused defense now because of mercs and their stupidly high DCDs, you actually see reflect frequently.

I still also feel a comparisoI n between melee dps classes is fair, and right now mara, specificially fury, is in a better place than shadow, juggie, or PT. (Idk about operatives, I've seen really good ones and really bad ones, so I'm not sure where the class is compared to the skill of the player). If we include range the situation is even more skewed as sniper and merc are also survivability gods, more so than mara. Granted sorc dps is a total swtor joke at the moment.

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
03.01.2018 , 01:28 PM | #18
The guy is trying to lecture how Fury works and yet he thinks Rage has a CC immunity, that says it all right there.

Was funny, did a few games last night for fun with my friends, we said "let's all play Juggs together", soon as we lost a wz one of them said "Screw this getting on my Fury Mara."

The difference, for the most part, is utilities. Marauders have lots of really good utilities, especially in Legendary tier. Juggs do not. Some of them are absolutely worthless (30 meter scream, who the hell ever takes this). Just look at the Mad Dash utility, both classes get it in Legendary. For Juggs its arguably the best utility we get in that tier and a must grab for PvP. For Marauders they can take it or leave it, as Ruthless Aggressor completely outclasses it and the Saber Ward heal is still better in certain scenarios.

You wanna fix Jugg DPS without breaking Jugg tanks? Add to the reflect utility a DPS specific mechanic, lowers the cooldown of Saber Ward by 3 seconds every time you're attacked, internal cooldown of 1.5 seconds. This means if you're in combat, the effective cooldown is more like 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds. That's it, boom, DPS Jugg is fixed and viable again. And its not broken like Ruthless Aggressor or the litany of merc cooldowns, either.

Also since Rage is still squishier than Vengeance in this scenario, give them the DR from Intercede as well, so it applies to them as well as teammates.
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Neulwen's Avatar


Neulwen
03.01.2018 , 04:45 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSealth View Post
[...] intercede that you should only be using as a tank.
I use Intercede all the time. I love it and it's one of the reasons I prefer Rage over Fury. The hybridy protecting capabilities of dmg juggs and the extra jump. (Also the animation is beautiful <3.) I think it works great as a root break.
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LordTurin
03.01.2018 , 06:56 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Neulwen View Post
I use Intercede all the time. I love it and it's one of the reasons I prefer Rage over Fury. The hybridy protecting capabilities of dmg juggs and the extra jump. (Also the animation is beautiful <3.) I think it works great as a root break.
Ya wut? And the fact that it is a fantastic additional dcd for someone else on your team, even as a dps it should be used pretty often. That's like saying dps jugs shouldn't be taunting on cd.
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