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Melee is easier than ranged dps. 3maras+tank=3 shooters+tank? lol

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Melee is easier than ranged dps. 3maras+tank=3 shooters+tank? lol

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.06.2018 , 08:01 AM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
Jugg skanks when geared & played right have the survivability of tanks but the DPS output of a pure DPS class. They may not technically be DPS, but they very much function as one.. And a pretty strong one at that.

So I'd have to disagree that Maras are the only awesome melee spec.

Skank tank Juggs are not infrequently in the top 3 on the DPS leaderboard. They may not put up 8k DPS but they don't have to in Regs. 3k-4k is olften enough to place at or very close to the top.
I really didn't want to repeat myself here, but fine.
A. This thread was talking about dps specs.
B. The issue with dps calculations in war zones is the way thst dps is calculated. It's damage done total / total match time. Since the total match time is the same for everyone this is going to favor classes that live longer and result in more uptime. I do, however, agree that even then it should be possible, even theoretically. Much less happen as frequently as it does.

I've posted my karagga numbers elsewhere as an example of numbers thst do involve considerations of combat time.

A tank should he more survivable than a dps, otherwise what would be the point of tanking. It's like healing in the sense thst it's a separate role.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.06.2018 , 03:31 PM | #32
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I really didn't want to repeat myself here, but fine.
A. This thread was talking about dps specs.
B. The issue with dps calculations in war zones is the way thst dps is calculated. It's damage done total / total match time. Since the total match time is the same for everyone this is going to favor classes that live longer and result in more uptime. I do, however, agree that even then it should be possible, even theoretically. Much less happen as frequently as it does.

I've posted my karagga numbers elsewhere as an example of numbers thst do involve considerations of combat time.

A tank should he more survivable than a dps, otherwise what would be the point of tanking. It's like healing in the sense thst it's a separate role.
I don't doubt that pure DPS classes outperform skank tanks with damage output in Operations. PVP functions so differently however that what happens in Operations has no bearing on what happens in PVP.

You know what else currently under performs in Operations, at least in NiM? Arsenal Merc. No one would say that Arsenal Mercs underperform in PVP however....at least not with a straight face.

The TTK in this game needs to come way down and fixing tanks and guard and the damage output of skanks (high damage by skanks adds to their survivability) is a part of that. Tanky DPS specs are another. Rather than adjusting squishy specs like Sorcs or DPS Powertechs so that they are as tanky as Mercs or Snipers, in PVP every DPS class should be as squishy as Sorcs & Powertechs. People should die a lot more often than they do in PVP. Personally I would prefer Bioware did that by PVP applying hefty debuffs so that PVE content isn't affected, but that's a discussion for another thread.

Glocko's Avatar


Glocko
02.06.2018 , 04:14 PM | #33
If you are getting out DPSed by a skank there is only one truth - You are trash

krosswong's Avatar


krosswong
02.06.2018 , 04:40 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Glocko View Post
If you are getting out DPSed by a skank there is only one truth - You are trash
Honestly this. Can we all please move on now?
The Guildkiller Legacy

Harbinger's #1 pub side trash.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.06.2018 , 04:46 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
I don't doubt that pure DPS classes outperform skank tanks with damage output in Operations. PVP functions so differently however that what happens in Operations has no bearing on what happens in PVP.

You know what else currently under performs in Operations, at least in NiM? Arsenal Merc. No one would say that Arsenal Mercs underperform in PVP however....at least not with a straight face.

The TTK in this game needs to come way down and fixing tanks and guard and the damage output of skanks (high damage by skanks adds to their survivability) is a part of that. Tanky DPS specs are another. Rather than adjusting squishy specs like Sorcs or DPS Powertechs so that they are as tanky as Mercs or Snipers, in PVP every DPS class should be as squishy as Sorcs & Powertechs. People should die a lot more often than they do in PVP. Personally I would prefer Bioware did that by PVP applying hefty debuffs so that PVE content isn't affected, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Using mercs as an example proves my point. Give them a taunt and a guard and they'd be the best skanks in the game.

The truly annoying PvP skanks are not primarily concerned about damage they do, but damage they prevent.

Most of my survivability does not come from killing things.in fact that isn't a major factor assuming both teams have healers. Because actual dps specs have higher dps potential, assuming they live long enough, they will put more dps pressure on an enemy.

And therin lies the issue with point 2. Dps sorcs and pts aren't survivable enough compared to the top classes to put on thst pressure. This is a pure someone needs to be brought up or others need to be brought down issue. I think there's a middle ground between a sorc survivability and a merc survivability personally, but that's just me.

As far as the ttk issue: making things difficult to kill is literally my job in pvp, so thanks for the compliment.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.06.2018 , 04:48 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Glocko View Post
If you are getting out DPSed by a skank there is only one truth - You are trash
Who said I got out DPSed about a tank? In regs I nearly always top the DPS leaderboard unless I'm on my healer.

I only said that skanks often fall into the top 3 DPS on leaderboards, and that is an absolute fact that anyone who queued for more than 10 warzones can attest to. Tanks should never finish near the top of DPS leaderboards at all, because they are not DPS.

The problem with SWTOR at the moment is that there are too many jacks-of-all-trade specs. You have DPS with the suvivability of tanks and tanks that function as strong DPS. PVP needs to be reworked so that no spec is a jack-of-all-trades.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.06.2018 , 05:30 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
Who said I got out DPSed about a tank? In regs I nearly always top the DPS leaderboard unless I'm on my healer.

I only said that skanks often fall into the top 3 DPS on leaderboards, and that is an absolute fact that anyone who queued for more than 10 warzones can attest to. Tanks should never finish near the top of DPS leaderboards at all, because they are not DPS.

The problem with SWTOR at the moment is that there are too many jacks-of-all-trade specs. You have DPS with the suvivability of tanks and tanks that function as strong DPS. PVP needs to be reworked so that no spec is a jack-of-all-trades.
If I do this there are a couple reasons, all of which come down to I survive longer.

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
02.07.2018 , 02:54 AM | #38
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
Who said I got out DPSed about a tank? In regs I nearly always top the DPS leaderboard unless I'm on my healer.

I only said that skanks often fall into the top 3 DPS on leaderboards, and that is an absolute fact that anyone who queued for more than 10 warzones can attest to. Tanks should never finish near the top of DPS leaderboards at all, because they are not DPS.

The problem with SWTOR at the moment is that there are too many jacks-of-all-trade specs. You have DPS with the suvivability of tanks and tanks that function as strong DPS. PVP needs to be reworked so that no spec is a jack-of-all-trades.
As said, its survival, combined with a decent amount of AOE fluff, that gets tanks near the top of the DPS leaderboards, along with mediocre DPS teammates. Also I don't like where this is going when referencing Jugg tanks... in an ideal situation, yeah they can at times be the best skank tanks. But they're also the most easily kited and avoided, and have to work the hardest to get their damage on target, seeing as most of their abilities are 4 meters. While Sins and PT's have more 10 meter abilities, including both having semi-ranged or smart AOE attacks. This is a factor against actually good opponents. And balance should always be done from the top down if you want a decent meta.

I can't speak for all classes, but I think all Vigilance really needs is another movement tool. Perhaps allowing their force leaps to be used in melee range and double as root breakers, this would ensure the class gets optimal uptime on their 20% DR, and since it can also be used to break roots and avoid CC, will improve survivability to probably about where it should be, while still not being as broken as Fury Mara.
Kandel - Juggernaut Lef - Guardian
Nyeetra - Assassin Milarra - Sage
Lendros - Mercenary Jakor - Vanguard
Iseline - Operative Lysandere - Gunslinger

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
02.07.2018 , 10:01 PM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by irratare View Post
And, I remembered, except for the jump and frenzied acceleration there is also teleportation - instantaneous movement to the goal. And this you call the same mobility ?? HA HA HA

Yet. Did you try to slowly move back from the player with acceleration and shoot? It's not very true, is it? A shoot for the back comes out? Any melee simply runs through the ranged without stopping the cutting of meat. And turns on the spot for running around melee leaves? not losing attacks? I'm like a turret, right?

the enemy to the right and сuts, to the left and cuts, and to me means to guess where he will turn. And lose the attack when he slipped behind his back. Mistaken - the corpse. Ranged - for long-range combat, but they have almost no chance in this game to keep the distance. funny flying back does not help.
Trying to read the English but man really hard to grasp what is being said when some words translate into words I don't think your trying to use. But if your a sniper and your getting recked by melee your doing alot wrong. Sniper is right now sitting pretty much tied with merc as Over Powered Flavor of the past 8 months. Followed by Sorc heals because lets face it hard to kill a sorc heals so why not have four in every match. Mara is pretty much the only melee that will actually rend a sniper limb from limb a assassin can as well but pretty much has to eat a huge amount of dmg doing it. My advise is to go to you tube and watch a couple vids on how to play a sniper.

VIZIOO's Avatar


VIZIOO
02.08.2018 , 04:47 PM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by irratare View Post
I use Google translator. I think that in the game there are huge problems with the very concept of combat, the player versus the player.
I often see the following picture - melee dps using huge acceleration roll on the field, as if cutting a group of shooters. In doing so, they constantly have both speed and the ability to jump. And constantly turn out behind the back of the arrow. The melee then goes to the right then to the left through the enemy is not difficult and he does not lose the attack at the same time. The shooter does not have this acceleration, jumps back and knocks on everything, and as soon as the target on the huge acceleration rolls behind him, he immediately loses the attack. The shooter does not have such speed, nor such immunities to control. .
You forgot to mention your composition? with who the system queues you with.. i.e. 3mercs and a tank or 2merc, 1snipe and tank and so on... theres a lot of important variables missing in your statement.. did the system queue you with a bunch of newbies v. seasonal players, undergear v. tier 3,..etc.. And is all about team effort, in other words..who as the "smarts" meaning which course of action did your teammates took while you got tunnel? did your teammates got kite, did they split the dps, or choose to focus tank instead of one the maras?

And more important is what you did while being tunnel? did you switch from FaceTank to Survival mode.. did you time your cd's correctly, kite etc.. Dont take me wrong I hate Maras, but in all faireness it would it had been great to see a video of the Match since there are too many variables missing in your statement, but still you do great point of view..