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Melee is easier than ranged dps. 3maras+tank=3 shooters+tank? lol

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Melee is easier than ranged dps. 3maras+tank=3 shooters+tank? lol

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.03.2018 , 12:41 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by irratare View Post
Mercs could be literal tanks if given guard and taunt

With a tank that knows how to deal with it, with a normal healer, it's really different, but I'm talking about solo ranked.
Yes, however, and in the group game you rarely find someone who really changes the defender and reduces the damage for you.
I'm sorry, I don't understand your point here.
Mercs have among the best DCDs on the non-tank specs and arguably better than PT tank DCDs. That's on top of exceptional self healing and range. The issue mercs have is thanks to their incredible survivability, their damage got nerfed substantially

giorgo's Avatar


giorgo
02.03.2018 , 12:42 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by irratare View Post
I have both a merc and a commando and a sniper (all70,246), and 61lvl gunsl. The sniper and the op,gunsl are somewhat more mobile, right. And then the main idea - to run around in circles occasionally shooting I do not like. But the merc and the commando with mobility have obvious problems. In general, so, I said everything I wanted. I hope this will be read by those who can do something to change the game. I do not need to prove that I'm a bad player, I already know that. There are problems in the game itself.
Be happy that bioware increased the hit range to 270 degrees a while back. It used to be 180 and people like you couldn't land a hit to save their lives.
I will give you some advice though. Pay attention now cause I rarely do that. Keybind your abilities and stop being a clicker. That way you will be able to turn using your mouse, which is faster than turning with your keyboard. Plus you will be able to strafe more effectively.
More importantly, stop backpedal. When you do it, you put a huge mark on yourself telling people to attack you cause you are bad.
There are plenty of keybind guides out there, you just need to stop wasting your time making useless threads here and Google it.

My 2 cents.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.03.2018 , 07:10 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by irratare View Post
I have both a merc and a commando and a sniper (all70,246), and 61lvl gunsl. The sniper and the op,gunsl are somewhat more mobile, right. And then the main idea - to run around in circles occasionally shooting I do not like. But the merc and the commando with mobility have obvious problems. In general, so, I said everything I wanted. I hope this will be read by those who can do something to change the game. I do not need to prove that I'm a bad player, I already know that. There are problems in the game itself.
Mercs get the short end of the stick in terms of CC immunity but if you're struggling with that class you are most certainly doing something wrong. Arsenal Mercs are one of the strongest DPS specs at the moment because they are both mobile and have very strong DCDs. They are also very easy to play in terms of ability usage. Assuming you play Arsenal, since most mercs that aren't healers do, what utilities have you taken? Do you have the one that allows you to use Blazing Bolts on the move? (a must have) What defensive utilities have you taken?

You should also be fighting on the edge of battles and if you get pressure from a melee, don't face tank unless you have responsive safeguards (aka reflect) up and are trying to get a heal to full. Your pushback, rocket out, and kiting are your friends. Generally you want to save Electro Net for Sages or Sorcs or stealth classes you're close to killing, but if you're in real trouble from a melee class and don't have a stun off cooldown, use it! Use anything you have to keep space between you and the melee. Don't forget to use chaff flare (the PVE threat dump...most PVPers don't use it for some reason, but it ups the odds of absorbing force or tech attacks) for when you're taking damage without a DCD up (or if you're low health and getting bursted through Energy Shield), and try to kite into a position where the enemy has to chase you past a crowd of your teammates. Often they'll draw focus if they over pursue. Save Hydraulic Overrides (your speed boost) for times when you need to break a slow and/or get out of trouble. Use Line of Sight when you have to (they can't jump to you if they can't see you) and hit them with CC when they come running around the corner. Save power surge (next ability activates instantly) for use for those times where you're going to use concussive missile (your long stun). Even if the opposing player can break it, concussive missile is useful for putting distance between you & melee during those times where you don't have your other stun. Buy seismic grenades & use them.

If you're doing all of the above you're going to be highly annoying to anyone who is trying to burst you down, particularly with your DCDs, and there is a strong likelihood that if there are other targets present they are going to swap to someone else.

Monoth's Avatar


Monoth
02.05.2018 , 07:34 AM | #24
Bioware has basically made playing melee fairly easy... Melee are suppose to have huge burst damage but the trick is they have to get in close range to use it, but like the OP said, they have all these gap closers and they can spec to run like Speedy Gonzales to instantly close the gap. The point of giving range cast abilities is to give melee a chance to get in close but again with all the gap closers and speed boosts melee have the huge advantage of closing the gap instantly and with their instant attacks just tear up any range player in seconds... It's extremely tough to keep any distance between yourself and a melee player.

Didn't used to be this way back when the game came out... Either remove some of the gap closers/speed boosts or add some casting times to their attacks. I won't even mention all the stuns/slow downs skills melee have also...

The only class that has a decent ability against melee is the sniper engineer but even that was nerfed because melee were QQ'ing that it made them slow and they took damage at the same time.
F2P is like driving on a long stretch of highway with toll booths every 1/2 mile

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.05.2018 , 06:58 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Monoth View Post
Bioware has basically made playing melee fairly easy... Melee are suppose to have huge burst damage but the trick is they have to get in close range to use it, but like the OP said, they have all these gap closers and they can spec to run like Speedy Gonzales to instantly close the gap. The point of giving range cast abilities is to give melee a chance to get in close but again with all the gap closers and speed boosts melee have the huge advantage of closing the gap instantly and with their instant attacks just tear up any range player in seconds... It's extremely tough to keep any distance between yourself and a melee player.

Didn't used to be this way back when the game came out... Either remove some of the gap closers/speed boosts or add some casting times to their attacks. I won't even mention all the stuns/slow downs skills melee have also...

The only class that has a decent ability against melee is the sniper engineer but even that was nerfed because melee were QQ'ing that it made them slow and they took damage at the same time.
The bolded isn't entirely true. The OP plays a merc and they are more than capable of getting the better any melee class in the game, including Maras, if played right. Arsenal Merc has the strongest DCDs of any DPS spec and that makes it one of the best dueling specs in the game.

You just have to time your DCDs & CC right, know what your opponents' DCDs do and plan accordingly, don't face tank unless reflect is up, and make use of LoS when necessary. If anyone is playing an Arsenal Merc and is struggling against melee classes they're either under geared or not playing the spec correctly.

Bonzenaattori's Avatar


Bonzenaattori
02.05.2018 , 11:40 PM | #26
It's a mobility meta ever since 3.0
Guess what? Majority of ranged class archetypes combat style is around Control or Tempo... how do you control your opponent as ranged? Most by roots and slows, a style known as 'kiting'.
How does Tempo ramp up? By peeling which increases the gap in strength between you and your opponent.

Now, let's revise
It's a mobility meta

Noticing the conflict in interest?

The biggest problem is the skill gap is so stupidly low and easy, any player can look like they're doing an adequate job if they simply mash enough buttons they'll eventually press the right one at the right time.
Classes in general both ranged and melee have too much utility. It's too easy

The achilles heel of melees (from back in the day) is that they had super high value, but in a single cooldown/application. They were usually a "one size fits all cooldown", but the problem was... it was a cooldown, when it's used... it's used.
If you pull it off, you look great and you keep doing it until your luck runs out.
If you failed, you have to face heavy punishment and learn to do things the hard way
Now you have melee classes being taken up to the level of around... 5 nearing 6 defensives.
Yeah melees will outlast you vs ranged. But instead of swtor realising this, they think the solution is to increase ranged defensive options. Which is completely wrong.

It's one of the reasons why Powertechs are complaining about poor survivability. Because they don't think a PT/VG cannot survive, they're comparing their own survival functionality to that of a counterpart or another class. And simply put, theirs not only looks inferior, it also looks obsolete.

That's just how it is, bad developers with no game sense will create updates that will benefit people with no game sense... who would've thought?
And before you pop a defensive cooldown of your own, no. It's not an insult, it's a fact. Be realistic and open your eyes and realise a bad outcome doesn't change just because it hurts.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.05.2018 , 11:54 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Bonzenaattori View Post
The achilles heel of melees (from back in the day) is that they had super high value, but in a single cooldown/application. They were usually a "one size fits all cooldown", but the problem was... it was a cooldown, when it's used... it's used.
If you pull it off, you look great and you keep doing it until your luck runs out.
I've been trying not to say anything further to this thread... But seriously it's one awesome melee spec: fury mara.
And technically two sucky ranged specs: dps sorc.

As someone who played a vigi guardian for nearly a year, I have practically no sympathy for mercs or snipers.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.06.2018 , 03:30 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I've been trying not to say anything further to this thread... But seriously it's one awesome melee spec: fury mara.
And technically two sucky ranged specs: dps sorc.

As someone who played a vigi guardian for nearly a year, I have practically no sympathy for mercs or snipers.
If we expand the discussion beyond just DPS, some skank tanks are every bit as OP as mercs or snipers are currently. There are some skank tanks that when geared/played right are as hard or harder to kill than snipers or mercs (they should be) but who do as much or nearly as much damage. (they shouldn't).

I'd throw some skank tanks in the awesome melee category along with Fury Maras.

Carnage Maras can also be beastly but they're more dependent on having a healer than Fury.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.06.2018 , 06:13 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
If we expand the discussion beyond just DPS, some skank tanks are every bit as OP as mercs or snipers are currently. There are some skank tanks that when geared/played right are as hard or harder to kill than snipers or mercs (they should be) but who do as much or nearly as much damage. (they shouldn't).

I'd throw some skank tanks in the awesome melee category along with Fury Maras.

Carnage Maras can also be beastly but they're more dependent on having a healer than Fury.
Tanks are a different sort of discussion. When I tank I'm not running around trying to kill stuff generally. For my full opinion see my several hundred posts on the matter.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.06.2018 , 07:26 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
Tanks are a different sort of discussion. When I tank I'm not running around trying to kill stuff generally. For my full opinion see my several hundred posts on the matter.
Jugg skanks when geared & played right have the survivability of tanks but the DPS output of a pure DPS class. They may not technically be DPS, but they very much function as one.. And a pretty strong one at that.

So I'd have to disagree that Maras are the only awesome melee spec.

Skank tank Juggs are not infrequently in the top 3 on the DPS leaderboard. They may not put up 8k DPS but they don't have to in Regs. 3k-4k is olften enough to place at or very close to the top.