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Imps on Star Forge - Please play pub side we need the help

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Imps on Star Forge - Please play pub side we need the help

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
02.01.2018 , 11:10 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
I'm not complaining about pre-mades, I'm complaining about double premades heh. Big difference.

8 people, all hand picked for just the right class/spec combination all in voice chat vs pug teams.
You said, and I quote:

Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Double pre-made FTW. That's all pubs know how to do practically.
Even though if you were to watch the attached videos, you'd see for 2/3 I was solo and for the 3rd I was grouped with one guy. I don't know where double premades fit in there.

Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
I'm not sure where you got the idea I was complaining about objectives. I said that Pubs are better at objectives than Imps. I'm an Imp and I'm calling a spade a spade is all. They are better at objectives.

PVP isn't about dueling, but it is about fighting.

I hate dueling, I love PVP.
The part about TKO vs. KO seems to indicate that you think winning by objectives is inferior to winning by brute force. Like using your brain is worse than smashing some buttons. Sorry, but that's the image you paint.

PvP isn't about fighting, it's about beating other players. If you think it's about fighting, you want arenas or dueling. In 8v8s, it's as much (or more) about other things.

KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
02.01.2018 , 12:01 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
I'm not complaining about pre-mades, I'm complaining about double premades heh. Big difference.

8 people, all hand picked for just the right class/spec combination all in voice chat vs pug teams.

I'm not sure where you got the idea I was complaining about objectives. I said that Pubs are better at objectives than Imps. I'm an Imp and I'm calling a spade a spade is all. They are better at objectives.

PVP isn't about dueling, but it is about fighting.

I hate dueling, I love PVP.
I admit to running a double premade. If I have 5 people on in guild, and they all want to PvP what am I supposed to do? Tell them they can't play with us? I do enforce roles (5dps/2heals/1tank) but I do not require any class or spec beyond that. Nor do we normally have all 8 as we have about 5-7 active members that PvP.

Beyond that I mostly agree. Dueling is all about which class is more op at the moment, assuming equal skill. That's why I prefer objective based PvP. I don't particularly care for arenas either. Mostly from my time running them as a vigi guardian in a group with a sage healer, infiltration shadow (before the utility change), and concentration sent. Guess who was focused first?

I play on satele shan not star forge so maybe the experience is different. I'd say there just were more imps, so your probability of getting a good team is higher but so is your probability of getting a crap team. Pugs are a crap shoot any way.

Do note despite my premading. I strongly prefer playing against other comparable teams. I don't enjoy rofl stomping or being rofl stomped.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
02.01.2018 , 02:09 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by Greezt View Post
You said, and I quote:



Even though if you were to watch the attached videos, you'd see for 2/3 I was solo and for the 3rd I was grouped with one guy. I don't know where double premades fit in there.



The part about TKO vs. KO seems to indicate that you think winning by objectives is inferior to winning by brute force. Like using your brain is worse than smashing some buttons. Sorry, but that's the image you paint.

PvP isn't about fighting, it's about beating other players. If you think it's about fighting, you want arenas or dueling. In 8v8s, it's as much (or more) about other things.

1 - I don't know what videos you are talking about or their relevance to my comments.

2- TKO/KO - You nailed me perfectly on this one. I do think winning by objectives is inferior than by winning by brute force.

You can open a door one of two ways. You can use the knob, or you could smash the door off it's hinges. I've never really minded getting splinters. How one makes their entrance can leave a lasting impression =]

3 - I can't speak for anyone else, nor would I feel entitled too. I play PVP because I like to fight. Objective are important, but they can't be obtained/kept for the most part without fighting. Some people go for objectives some people try and support those people going for objectives either by clearing the path for them, or responding to a defended area under attack. I am one of the latter. Truth be told, I'm not particularly good at objectives. I think I've scored a total of 3 goals in Huttball total! I feel that I can offer the group I'm playing with more by way of fighting than by way of objectives. Every enemy that is free to roam and go after the people on your team attempting objectives makes their attainment that much more unlikely. You stop people from interfering with your team members attempting the objectives by engaging them. Saying please doesn't often meet with much success in PVP from what I've seen =p

You want to leave the one healer on your team who doesn't have a guard without anyone to peel for them thinking that whether your healer lives or dies has no effect on the prospects of your team winning because PVP "is about objectives", I'm sure they'll appreciate the sentiment.

There is no objective PVP map that can be won without fighting.

Play your game how you like. I'm in it for the fighting.

I'm not interested in dueling as that's class based [Operatives/Assassins/Snipers/Mercs Ftw] realistically speaking.

Certain classes are more appropriate for certain objectives, you don't leave a Jugg, Marauder, or a healer as lone guard , unless of course you want to lose. You don't send healers to attack an enemy node. Stealth are better at getting nodes [sap cap] and defending nodes. If you don't have an available stealth to guard a node, sniper is next in line [Engineering is particularly suited for it].

Huttball matches certain classes are better to pass back and forth with based on stealth hiding near the enemy goal line, and Sorcs are good as well to help with the "congo line" and to force speed when appropriate as force speed is much faster than certain other classes speed boosts.

Feel free to recommend a Jugg to go and try and take an enemy node defended by only one visible defender instead of the Assassin. Feel free to assign a sorc healer to try and plant an a bomb on a door.Feel free to assign a PT as sole defender of a node.

Seriously, recommend it to any team the group I'm in is up against. It would make my job [and everyone elses] a whole lot easier.

I been playing since 1.x, stop telling me what I'd like and how I should play PVP. You play however the hell you want.

I think you and I simply are using the word 'beating' in different contexts. You beat your enemies by winning the match, I beat my enemies with my fist. They both have their value.

P.S. Sometimes you're gonna get your *** kicked [I certainly do at times]. PVP's iffy like that. I can have fun even when my team loses. I don't play games to win, I play them to have fun. I'm fine with the size of my Dk.

Aeneas_Falco's Avatar


Aeneas_Falco
02.01.2018 , 02:20 PM | #24
If you play Rep toons on Star Forge you may want to queue now. The current batch of Imps in the queue is god awful. 5 straight losses because of people fighting a mile from Voidstar doors, turtling on the one node we owned midway through a Novare Coast, not focusing ball carriers in Huttball, and not responding to multiple(!) incoming calls from a lone node guard in Alderaan.

The latter did give me 3 solo kills but my back is only so strong. Snow, gone before it's time. Never forget.

I'm trying to summon the strength to hit that queue button again on my Imp toon, but the temptation to switch Rep side is now strong.

[quote]
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
Double pre-made FTW. That's all pubs know how to do practically.
It gets bad at times if you happen to play late at night. I guess it's because of there being less people in the queue, you can't avoid the double premade and will probably get multiple matches against the same team.

I just set the achievement bar lower. It goes from "Let's see if we can win this" to "Let's see how long I can survive against focus & if I can take one or two of them with me."

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
02.01.2018 , 02:39 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Aeneas_Falco View Post
If you play Rep toons on Star Forge you may want to queue now. The current batch of Imps in the queue is god awful. 5 straight losses because of people fighting a mile from Voidstar doors, turtling on the one node we owned midway through a Novare Coast, not focusing ball carriers in Huttball, and not responding to multiple(!) incoming calls from a lone node guard in Alderaan.

The latter did give me 3 solo kills but my back is only so strong. Snow, gone before it's time. Never forget.

I'm trying to summon the strength to hit that queue button again on my Imp toon, but the temptation to switch Rep side is now strong.



It gets bad at times if you happen to play late at night. I guess it's because of there being less people in the queue, you can't avoid the double premade and will probably get multiple matches against the same team.

I just set the achievement bar lower. It goes from "Let's see if we can win this" to "Let's see how long I can survive against focus."
There's good and bad on both sides. I do tend to think Imps are better at the fighting over all, but I also think Pubs are better at objectives over all. Someone else pointed this out previously, but it's asinine not to think that probably most of the pubs also play or have played Impside [I'm the odd-man out in that regard] . The classes are mirrors of one another, so what you can do on one side, you can do on the other.

Far as the double premade thingy, that's just the way it goes sometimes. Is it annoying? Yeah it is, but let's face it, PVP isn't only about skill, it's alot about class composition, I think pretty much most people are on the same page on that. I don't particularly mind losing sometimes. I try to win, but I can still have fun either way. The problem with going up against double-premades is more or less you know you are likely going to lose, but more importantly, it's just not fun getting your *** handed to you over and over and over again in succession. What makes it worse is when they have the nuts to talk yang to you, like you're getting your *** kicked because "your bads". The only people who do double-premades ARE bads. I would never join a double premade under any circumstances. Not that that's really an issue, as I have never even once seen or heard of a Imp double-premade. I'm sure it's probably happened a time or two, but at best it's anomaly. Pubs do it fairly regularly.

Sometimes you're just gonna get your *** kicked heh - You have a great attitude about it , that's a good way to look at it. I commend you on that!

Three or 4 of those in a row and I start to get a lil fumed under the collar! When that happens I usually just take a break for a while, hopefully you'll get out of sync with them in the quece and get back to having a snowball's chance in hell again!

jomfalcona's Avatar


jomfalcona
02.01.2018 , 09:24 PM | #26
Went 6-1 as a pub the last two nights. We had 2-3 heals in every match and the other team had none. It was a beatdown and I felt for the imps. I have been on the wrong end of that smacking many, many times. Depends on the night I guess.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
02.02.2018 , 04:03 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I admit to running a double premade. If I have 5 people on in guild, and they all want to PvP what am I supposed to do? Tell them they can't play with us? I do enforce roles (5dps/2heals/1tank) but I do not require any class or spec beyond that. Nor do we normally have all 8 as we have about 5-7 active members that PvP.

Beyond that I mostly agree. Dueling is all about which class is more op at the moment, assuming equal skill. That's why I prefer objective based PvP. I don't particularly care for arenas either. Mostly from my time running them as a vigi guardian in a group with a sage healer, infiltration shadow (before the utility change), and concentration sent. Guess who was focused first?

I play on satele shan not star forge so maybe the experience is different. I'd say there just were more imps, so your probability of getting a good team is higher but so is your probability of getting a crap team. Pugs are a crap shoot any way.

Do note despite my premading. I strongly prefer playing against other comparable teams. I don't enjoy rofl stomping or being rofl stomped.

Maybe it's different on Satele Shan, maybe Imps do run double-premades there with some regularity, which if is the case than it's make sense why would.

Thing I'm not one of those people that think quecing premades in in regs is inherently "wrong" [I'm not really that's the appropriate word, im just grasping a bit. Friends should be able to play together, there's nothing sly about that. I myself sometimes will play with one or two other people in regs. I don't look for premades to join, I quece solo usually, but if some later on asks me to join them cuz their a healer and we worked well together, I'll be the first one to admit I just at the chance to have a healer around. As a Mara having a healer in the group is encouraging, ya know you'll at least have someone who can try and prop u up when ya need. Nothing wrong with some guildies teaming up, after all it is an MMO and it is group content.

Sometimes things work in your favor sometimes they work in the other guy's favor. Sometimes your gonna get your *** kicked heh.

You don't strike me as the kinda player that's looking for advantages. If you're doing it sometimes, it's social thing among friends/guildies.

I won't lie and say I don't think it's an inherent strong advantage to have over a pug team, especially when they're in voice chat. Whatever my thoughts on it generally though, that's just my opinion and opinions will vary. Mine's no more valid than anyone elses. To say someone's doing "something wrong" by double-premading would be silly. Yes it's an advantage, but it's not a moral issue hehe it's a video game.

There is one player in RBL [which is a pub guild originally from the Shadowlands who ran double-premades all the time, everybody in the game who wasn't a member of their guild hated their guts heh, everyone on the Shadowlands knew who they were], I hated them, but there was one member who also played Impside, and he's a great guy/girl [im not sure if it's a girl or a G.I.R.L.] Fantastic healer, skilled player up the azz. Awesome.

You really can't judge a book by it's cover. I don't doubt you for one second pal.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
02.02.2018 , 04:09 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by jomfalcona View Post
Went 6-1 as a pub the last two nights. We had 2-3 heals in every match and the other team had none. It was a beatdown and I felt for the imps. I have been on the wrong end of that smacking many, many times. Depends on the night I guess.
Yeah, I'm usually on the bad end of that deal myself heh

The heals thing really is make or break kinda thing a lot of the time. But nothing's written in stone. Skill matters a lot too.

I don't really know why there seems to be shortage of healers Impside, but it does often seem that pub teams bring an extra triage or two with them heh

Sometimes a good humbling is good for the soul! =p

A lot of people think I play a Chiss Marauder. I don't, that's all black and blue. =p

Greezt's Avatar


Greezt
02.02.2018 , 07:03 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
1 - I don't know what videos you are talking about or their relevance to my comments.
There are three videos linked by me earlier in this thread. They are relevant because me (a pub player in these recordings) win 3 matches, while in 2/3 I'm solo and in the 3rd I'm grouped with one friend (both DPS). No double premades. Do you understand how that negates your "pubs know how to do nothing but double premades" argument?

Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
There is no objective PVP map that can be won without fighting.

Play your game how you like. I'm in it for the fighting.
  1. no objective map can be won without fighting, but also no objective map can be won without, um , objectives. In huttball, if your team is focused on the ball rather than killing people, they're more likely to win (assuming they understand how the mechanics work). In fact, if my team gets slaughtered by yours yet we have the ball at the end of the match, then if your team never scored (why would they? They like fighting!) we win.
  2. play the game how you like? I'm sure you'll enjoy seeing someone on your team doing nothing but stealthing around and mezzing people. Or standing AFK and only doing enough to not be kicked. Right? That's what they like, they'd say.

Quote: Originally Posted by WayOfTheWarriorx View Post
snip
As for the rest, you don't seem to understand what objective play is. Objective play means you play for the objectives, not that you either guard or score. For example, a tank guarding the ball carrier instead of his pocket healer in huttball is playing the objectives even if they're not carrying the ball. Killing people in ancient hypergate is also objective play, as long as you have a pylon.

If you think only guarding and sapcapping are PTFO, I suggest you relearn the maps and how winning in them goes.

Floplag's Avatar


Floplag
02.02.2018 , 09:49 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I admit to running a double premade. If I have 5 people on in guild, and they all want to PvP what am I supposed to do? Tell them they can't play with us? I do enforce roles (5dps/2heals/1tank) but I do not require any class or spec beyond that.
.
"I do enforce roles"... this is the problem at its core. Why is it necessary to ensure you have tanks and heals in regs?
As far as im concerned requiring this shows a lack of confidence in your own ability and an admission that you need help to compete.

I run mostly solo to actually create some kind of a challenge, but I have no problem with friends grouping up, i do it as well at times, but ive never asked anyone to swap a class, change a spec, or do anything but have fun with me.

If you cannot play the game without requiring certain roles, IE trinity comps, then you cannot play the game at all.
Floplag - Merc/Mando
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