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Fury Marauder Guidance (Need help)

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Fury Marauder Guidance (Need help)

Eastiano's Avatar


Eastiano
02.02.2018 , 06:49 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Jaysantomo View Post
The only thing good about Fury is the Ruthless aggressor. The burst is garbage compared to carnage.
Are you high? Ruthless aggressor can be used in carnage as well, itís a utility.
Also carnage burst is not as good as it used to be...

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
02.02.2018 , 09:46 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
I meant my sentinel Concentration guide, but apparently its garbage, as the people here wrote, so you rather not read it
I wouldn't nitpick a guide for minor differences of opinion, but your concentration guide gets a bunch of basic stuff wrong. Anyone who thinks dulfy puts any serious effort into vetting the people writing the guides there has been fooled. Luckily the sort of people who want to write a Dulfy guide are also typically the sort of people who know what they're talking about too, but not always.

1) recommends not using ruthless aggressor for ranked
2) recommends not running the CD reduction on pacify + rebuke while stunned for ranked
3) your opening rotation is completely wrong, and any advice on a post-opener rotation/priority system is just not included
4) advising/showcasing using camo to engage in 4 dps solo ranked games

I am not just being snarky when I say your guide might actually make someone worse. Any poor sap who actually trusted Dulfy to only publish good guides who took the 4 pieces of advice above on board is going to be hamstringed by them in solo ranked until they figure out that they've been had.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
02.02.2018 , 11:05 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
I wouldn't nitpick a guide for minor differences of opinion, but your concentration guide gets a bunch of basic stuff wrong. Anyone who thinks dulfy puts any serious effort into vetting the people writing the guides there has been fooled. Luckily the sort of people who want to write a Dulfy guide are also typically the sort of people who know what they're talking about too, but not always.

1) recommends not using ruthless aggressor for ranked
2) recommends not running the CD reduction on pacify + rebuke while stunned for ranked
3) your opening rotation is completely wrong, and any advice on a post-opener rotation/priority system is just not included
4) advising/showcasing using camo to engage in 4 dps solo ranked games

I am not just being snarky when I say your guide might actually make someone worse. Any poor sap who actually trusted Dulfy to only publish good guides who took the 4 pieces of advice above on board is going to be hamstringed by them in solo ranked until they figure out that they've been had.
Please post the correct rotation here..

I am curious to see it if meroxer's is "garbage".

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
02.02.2018 , 01:33 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
Please post the correct rotation here..

I am curious to see it if meroxer's is "garbage".
The "best" fury opener (best being the most optimal most of the time because it's going to vary based on the situation) in pvp is debatable. But it definitely does not involve using zealous leap before concentrated slice just so you can blow your 2nd koan buff on force sweep. That is objectively, unquestionably a bad opener.

And, as I said, it doesn't even give a real rotation or priority system. It just gives one bad opener and leaves the reader to decide how to proceed (after goofing up the rotation for them).

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
02.02.2018 , 02:50 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
The "best" fury opener (best being the most optimal most of the time because it's going to vary based on the situation) in pvp is debatable. But it definitely does not involve using zealous leap before concentrated slice just so you can blow your 2nd koan buff on force sweep. That is objectively, unquestionably a bad opener.

And, as I said, it doesn't even give a real rotation or priority system. It just gives one bad opener and leaves the reader to decide how to proceed (after goofing up the rotation for them).
@David was asking for your idea of a starting/basic rotation, why don't you just give it to him instead of complaining about other peoples ideas.

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
02.02.2018 , 03:03 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by RACATW View Post
@David was asking for your idea of a starting/basic rotation, why don't you just give it to him instead of complaining about other peoples ideas.
He asked for the correct opener. The correct opener in PVP is unquestionably debatable (it also arguably doesn't exist as the optimal opener is completely dependent on the situation). So I told him it was debatable.

It's also completely beside the point because, whatever the optimal opener is, it's not even plausibly the one posted in that guide.

I'm not here to crap on everything I don't agree with. I read and deliberately do not post in most threads on this board. But this is a Dulfy guide here. People genuinely google for Dulfy guides and put trust in them. And that concentration guide is full of bad advice. It deserves criticism.

RACATW's Avatar


RACATW
02.02.2018 , 03:09 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
He asked for the correct opener. The correct opener in PVP is unquestionably debatable (it also arguably doesn't exist as the optimal opener is completely dependent on the situation). So I told him it was debatable.

It's also completely beside the point because, whatever the optimal opener is, it's not even plausibly the one posted in that guide.

I'm not here to crap on everything I don't agree with. I read and deliberately do not post in most threads on this board. But this is a Dulfy guide here. People genuinely google for Dulfy guides and put trust in them. And that concentration guide is full of bad advice. It deserves criticism.
So basically you're not even going to post any opener at all. How helpful do you think handwaving is to a noob?

Anybody who knows an opener can be flexible (even if we all have our favourites and 'best' or optimal damage rotation w/ no dcd's considered), doesn't need a guide.

yellow_'s Avatar


yellow_
02.02.2018 , 03:28 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by RACATW View Post
So basically you're not even going to post any opener at all. How helpful do you think handwaving is to a noob?

Anybody who knows an opener can be flexible (even if we all have our favourites and 'best' or optimal damage rotation w/ no dcd's considered), doesn't need a guide.
A guide with a perfectly acceptable opener (and an explanation of what to do after said opener, which the dulfy guide omits entirely) was literally the 2nd reply to the thread.

I'm choosing to help by pointing out that a public guide from a trusted website actually recommends a lot of things that you should not be doing. The chip on your shoulder may lead you to believe I'm somehow obligated to help in another manner, but I'm not.

Also, I am fairly certain the OP would not even read the openers I use and the accompanying wall of text I would need to put up in order to explain why and when they're used if I bothered to post it anyway.

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
02.02.2018 , 04:18 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by yellow_ View Post
A guide with a perfectly acceptable opener (and an explanation of what to do after said opener, which the dulfy guide omits entirely) was literally the 2nd reply to the thread.

I'm choosing to help by pointing out that a public guide from a trusted website actually recommends a lot of things that you should not be doing. The chip on your shoulder may lead you to believe I'm somehow obligated to help in another manner, but I'm not.

Also, I am fairly certain the OP would not even read the openers I use and the accompanying wall of text I would need to put up in order to explain why and when they're used if I bothered to post it anyway.
https://vulkk.com/2017/02/21/sith-ma...r-5-0-guide/3/

You can find openers, rotation templates here.

Also, you can play around with these depending on the situation.

Learned the spec from this guide. It's for PVE, but lots of info from his guide can be used for PVP and general understanding of how the spec works.

WayOfTheWarriorx's Avatar


WayOfTheWarriorx
02.02.2018 , 04:26 PM | #30
There are no strict rotations in PVP, you do not have the consistent up time reliably on a target to be able to keep a rotation going without interruption. Arguably however, of all the Mara/Sent specs Fury/Concentration has the best uptime and more reliable rotational priorities. In PVP you need to work with priorities, if you get the opportunity to pull off a full return rotation, great, but that's the exception.

Given Fury/Concentration's anti-cc passives, extra leap and the ability to Leap to Snipers gives Fury more mobility that the other two specs in PVP. But it is wise to be prepared for priority attack form combinations as optimal rotations can't be maintained reliably in PVP.

The following are "recommended" strats for the spec. These are not of my own making, I am simply sharing them as it's been asked for. I'm a Carnage user myself.

I'm sorry I can't share the pub name version, I only speak IMP. That said, I have not read Mero's Concentration Guide as I don't speak pub, so I have no idea how this may stand next to his. [/B] Certain differences may be the result of what follows being up to date as of 5.6. Which may be better I make no comment to, save only in that I respect Mero and I find the likelihood of some of the disparaging remarks made questionable. For the record while some have questioned his guide, [B]I'm not one of them.

The recommended utility spread for PVP for Fury is [This isn't written in stone, and player style can certainly alter what may be best for a given individual, this is just a good base utility spread generally speaking for PVP -

Cloak of Carnage
Brazzen [which you want for any spec - this is a must have for PVP]
Subjugate [this is a must have as well not only for how it effects Ruthless Aggressor but because it let's you use Cloak of Pain while stunned]
Relentless [Must have all specs for PVP as a requisite for unbound in addition to it's other functions]
Defensive Roll [Must have for all specs]
Unbound [Must have for PVP - One might make the argument in Fury's case that it's not as important as Fury has some innate anti-cc passives as ability effects, but that doesn't cover you all of the time]
Phantom
Ruthless Aggressor

I personally don't agree with all of it, in particular Cloak of Carnage and Phantom. They are both very good, but I would say inexorable is a very good utility to have given all the CC that gets thrown around all the time, but, you could also argue that given Fury's extremely good rage reserves it may be of less value than to the other two specs. If one did take the view that they weren't all that concerned with Rage issues than putting one of the two recommended above is not a bad way to go. Player style will sort of make this a bit clearer in terms of choice.

Whether you are doing objective maps or Ranked will also effect utility priorities to some degree. There is some wiggle room here, although not much in my opinion.

Recommended Opener -

| Berserk + Force Charge
Raging Burst | Raging Burst + Adrenal (optional) [Not an option in PVP]
Force Crush | Force Crush
Furious Strike | Furious Strike
Ravage | Ravage
Obliterate | Obliterate
Battering Assault | Battering Assault
Dual Saber Throw or vicious slash or assault | Filler (Dual Saber Throw, Vicious Slash, Assault etc)
Raging Burst | Raging Burst
Force Scream | Force Scream
Furious Strike | Furious Strike
Dual Saber Throw or vicious slash or assault | Filler (Dual Saber Throw, Vicious Slash, Assault etc)
berserk + Obliterate | Berserk + Obliterate
Dual Saber Throw or vicious slash or assault | Filler (Dual Saber Throw, Vicious Slash, Assault etc).

How viable this is for PVP is another consideration. This is optimal, but we don't always have the time or the resources for Optimal. This is simply the recommended optimal opener.

You will never get agreement on any of this from everyone. People have their own revisions often, what works good for them even if it's not a standard.

Anytime someone says "You're doing it wrong" bare one thing in mind and ask yourself "Who's numbers are bigger, his or mine", if you are doing better with the "wrong" way than he is doing with "the right way", you're not doing wrong. I have not since 2.0 followed the "recommended" faithfully, I have always worked with re-visioned forms that work better for me.

Just because they can't make it work for them like you make it work for you doesn't mean a thing. Unless they consistently do better numbers than you in the same spec, they're wrong and you're right. If you find something works better, you use it. There is no wrong, only outcome.

People who 'follow' others never get there first. Revise at your own risk, but no pain no gain. Hope this helps some.